News Coronavirus and NRL

[Silent Knight]

Im concerned about the USA too. Similar land mass to us but over 10 times the population and cities / towns in close proximity..

With “flattening the curve” I don’t think this means basically to slow it rather than cure it.. as getting to here appears to be “stage 1” - stopping the spread.. then once there, can help hopefully cure it.

Like many countries, Australia is in a unique position but economically we might be in one of the worst positions.. a perfect storm of..

1 Recent catastrophic bushfires
2 Coronavirus
3 Economic “partnership” (aka reliance) with China.

forgetting about 3 for a minute, the first two are back to back and both 1 in 100 year events ... the fires severely hurt our economy but the virus on the back of it is almost a killer blow. I get health is number 1 priority but if the economy sinks to the absolute depths then what we are seeing now in society will be nothing compared to the jobless, poverty, breadlines, homeless, and an endless line of other social issues that will plague us. Possibly worse than the Great Depression is a real risk..

So the government indeed should be doing everything to salvage what it can of the economy... or... do they go to point 3 and look to China to save us... which effectively could mean ownership of us...

I was talking to my wife about this and in my opinion I think we need to have a conversation about why a nation of 25 million people needs 3 levels of government.

The amount of duplication across all 3 levels of government is staggering. For example the Federal Department of Health doesn’t actually manage a single hospital, that is done by the half a dozen State Departments of Health. I could go on with many other examples, like the fact there are local, state and federal roads (why?).

In my opinion we don’t need state governments. This lunacy of each state shutting its borders at different times based on its own whims and QLD forging ahead with local elections this weekend. This should be a nationally coordinated effort with effectively the Federal Government being the sole decision maker.

But it would require a referendum to fundamentally change the Federation and I don’t know if our current leaders have the cojones to push that.

We are going to need as much money flowing through the economy as possible. Eliminating government duplication would help with that.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I was talking to my wife about this and in my opinion I think we need to have a conversation about why a nation of 25 million people needs 3 levels of government.

The amount of duplication across all 3 levels of government is staggering. For example the Federal Department of Health doesn’t actually manage a single hospital, that is done by the half a dozen State Departments of Health. I could go on with many other examples, like the fact there are local, state and federal roads (why?).

In my opinion we don’t need state governments. This lunacy of each state shutting its borders at different times based on its own whims and QLD forging ahead with local elections this weekend. This should be a nationally coordinated effort with effectively the Federal Government being the sole decision maker.

But it would require a referendum to fundamentally change the Federation and I don’t know if our current leaders have the cojones to push that.

We are going to need as much money flowing through the economy as possible. Eliminating government duplication would help with that.

agreed. One of the things I find the most ridiculous is license administration, the way we have separate state bodies administering drivers and high risk work licenses. So much duplication of services for essentially the same things and a massive pain in the arse if you move state, as I’ve done twice. All for what? Allocation of revenue? That could still easily be done with a single administrative body.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Im concerned about the USA too. Similar land mass to us but over 10 times the population and cities / towns in close proximity..
..

That’s a somewhat misleading stat though because the vast majority of Australia Is so empty you can just remove it from the equation. Our population is more than 97% urbanised, and once you look at the areas where they live we’re probably on a par with the USA. Outside of NYC most American cities really aren’t densely populated at all, they’ve got similar levels of urban sprawl to ours.

 

[Billythekid]

Deadset you lot.

So many dumb posts in this thread looking back but this one is up there with the best. About the norm for your posts as well.

Funny watching how much the attitude towards this has changed as the thread progressed.

 

[BadnMean]

If the government went hard enough early enough it could have been handled. Not by banning incoming Australians but by strictly quarantining them. I can admit I wasn't taking it seriously a month ago but that is why I am not a member of parliament. If the politicians listened to the medical experts the worst of this could have been avoided.

Countries like South Korea and Singapore have handled this successfully with a scalpel while we only have a baseball bat.

They also have populations who listen to government directives. All the people not taking this seriously a month ago & who still won't listen to directives ensure that the measures we have taken will not be as effective as they should be.

I agree ScoMo has given a completely confusing, hodge podge, ill thought out response, seemingly made up on the fly & changed every 2 days- with none of the later decisions jiving with the previous ones (all his economic stimulus decisions seem to work against the previous ones).

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

surely our export trade will prevent a Great Depression scenario? We still export billions of resources and food which will continue to be bought by China and others.

hope so. Two of our biggest exports though are iron ore (Mining) and education.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

I was talking to my wife about this and in my opinion I think we need to have a conversation about why a nation of 25 million people needs 3 levels of government.

The amount of duplication across all 3 levels of government is staggering. For example the Federal Department of Health doesn’t actually manage a single hospital, that is done by the half a dozen State Departments of Health. I could go on with many other examples, like the fact there are local, state and federal roads (why?).

In my opinion we don’t need state governments. This lunacy of each state shutting its borders at different times based on its own whims and QLD forging ahead with local elections this weekend. This should be a nationally coordinated effort with effectively the Federal Government being the sole decision maker.

But it would require a referendum to fundamentally change the Federation and I don’t know if our current leaders have the cojones to push that.

We are going to need as much money flowing through the economy as possible. Eliminating government duplication would help with that.

Very true, I agree. and while I don’t have a reference to back it up here at the moment I understand that per capita, we are one of the most governed countries in the world.

 

[Perth Red]

hope so. Two of our biggest exports though are iron ore (Mining) and education.

in many ways the global economy and world trade might buffer against a depression. If we were reliant on manufacturing and selling to our own then we’d be in strife. The world will still want our export goods so that will help buffer national down turn you’d hope.

 

[Perth Red]

Very true, I agree. and while I don’t have a reference to back it up here at the moment I understand that per capita, we are one of the most governed countries in the world.

on one hands it’s nuts but on the other living in a far flung state that often seems to get the short end of the stick from Canberra I’m quite glad we aren’t fully reliant on them.

what we def should have though is a national emergency act where federal govt takes over in a situation like this. Having said that some states are responding quicker than scomos govt.

 

[King hit]

@Perth Red are they just blocking the roads out of Perth

 

[Perth Red]

@Perth Red are they just blocking the roads out of Perth

not quite lol but there are $50k fines if you are found to be travelling out of your zone without good reason!

im in a dilemma, end up with a mullet or risk the vid to get my haircut!

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

That’s a somewhat misleading stat though because the vast majority of Australia Is so empty you can just remove it from the equation. Our population is more than 97% urbanised, and once you look at the areas where they live we’re probably on a par with the USA. Outside of NYC most American cities really aren’t densely populated at all, they’ve got similar levels of urban sprawl to ours.

Not meant to be misleading...

Yes the majority of our population is coastal and urbanised but we have vast distance between our major cities compared with the USA.

Eg New York to Washington DC is less than a 4 hour drive, and in between is all densely urbanised, and including big cities of Philadelphia and Baltimore.. we have nothing like that here.

California has just under 40 million people in an area of 423,000m2. Population is mainly coastal but inland cities also (eg Sacramento). Compare that with NSW, just over 800,000m2 with approx 8million people, of which over 5 million live in the greater Sydney area.

Yes, compare greater Sydney to many US areas of similar size and the density is most likely similar. But the US areas of urbanisation are far more vast and interconnected than ours here.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

on one hands it’s nuts but on the other living in a far flung state that often seems to get the short end of the stick from Canberra I’m quite glad we aren’t fully reliant on them.

what we def should have though is a national emergency act where federal govt takes over in a situation like this. Having said that some states are responding quicker than scomos govt.

indeed I agree mate. It would be wrong to expect cities like Perth, regionals areas etc should fall under a blanket rule of government which would be based on the east coast.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

indeed I agree mate. It would be wrong to expect cities like Perth, regionals areas etc should fall under a blanket rule of government which would be based on the east coast.

the problem is the current state divisions don’t really represent the different areas needs any more. WA, TAS and the NT are fair enough, their geographical separation makes them logical as distinct entities. But the eastern states are so interconnected that for the most part they’d b better off governed as a whole, but with some special allowances for those in the outback and far north, who have distinct needs from the populated southeast.

 

[t-ba]

For those interested in the merits of a complete lockdown


Of course it's about 'flattening the curve' as it were but it's also important in giving our healthcare and biosecurity experts the time to make arrangements for 'the dance', an exceptionally long period in which we will have to monitor for clusters that emerge and keep it under control so life can return to something approaching normal before the vaccine can get made.

There are no half measures now unfortunately. We really shouldn't be waiting to see if we have the 'Rona under control, judging by the jump in community transmissions, we do not. Bite the bullet, get it done.

 

[Billythekid]

As someone working in an emergency department currently doing everything it can to prepare for the coming onslaught I can tell you we’re woefully underprepared. If the numbers keep sharply rising our hospitals are going to buckle under the pressure real quick. I’m just hoping that what we’ve done so far will be enough even if it hasn’t been elsewhere in the world.

 

[moffla]

As someone working in an emergency department currently doing everything it can to prepare for the coming onslaught I can tell you we’re woefully underprepared. If the numbers keep sharply rising our hospitals are going to buckle under the pressure real quick. I’m just hoping that what we’ve done so far will be enough even if it hasn’t been elsewhere in the world.

All the best mate.

stay at home everyone.

 

[Timbo]

I was talking to my wife about this and in my opinion I think we need to have a conversation about why a nation of 25 million people needs 3 levels of government.

The amount of duplication across all 3 levels of government is staggering. For example the Federal Department of Health doesn’t actually manage a single hospital, that is done by the half a dozen State Departments of Health. I could go on with many other examples, like the fact there are local, state and federal roads (why?).

In my opinion we don’t need state governments. This lunacy of each state shutting its borders at different times based on its own whims and QLD forging ahead with local elections this weekend. This should be a nationally coordinated effort with effectively the Federal Government being the sole decision maker.

But it would require a referendum to fundamentally change the Federation and I don’t know if our current leaders have the cojones to push that.

We are going to need as much money flowing through the economy as possible. Eliminating government duplication would help with that.

It made sense when you had to take a boat to get from Sydney to Perth and just a letter could take weeks to go from Brisbane to Adelaide.

You always hear ‘it’s important for the states to control education and healthcare’. Why? Do you get the flu differently in Hobart and Melbourne? Do times tables calculate differently in Newcastle and Geelong? It’s a complete fallacy and state governments should be abolished.

But how would we convince these assholes to give up their power? There’s no way they’d ever even give us the referendum on it. It wastes billions of dollars each year and eats up so much time with duplication. It’s madness.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

It made sense when you had to take a boat to get from Sydney to Perth and just a letter could take weeks to go from Brisbane to Adelaide.

You always hear ‘it’s important for the states to control education and healthcare’. Why? Do you get the flu differently in Hobart and Melbourne? Do times tables calculate differently in Newcastle and Geelong? It’s a complete fallacy and state governments should be abolished.

But how would we convince these assholes to give up their power? There’s no way they’d ever even give us the referendum on it. It wastes billions of dollars each year and eats up so much time with duplication. It’s madness.

agreed. Like I said a couple of posts above the differences in needs now are between the city and the bush, not between Sydney/Melbourne/Perth whatever.

 

[flippikat]

Looking in from New Zealand, I find the conversation about state vs federal goverments pretty interesting.. the last few weeks have shown the effectiveness of our unitary system over here, with everything well co-ordinated from Wellington.

The only case here where things are somewhat fractured is Local Government level. We have local city councils that are tasked with running amenities like libraries/parks, water supply, local roads (not highways), and rubbish collection.. and in Wellington region the 4 big councils (Wellington, Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt & Porirua) have all co-ordinated well, closing community centers & libraries on the same day.

As far as consistency goes, a little co-operation goes a long way!