Crowd Watch 2012 Mk II

[Marshall_magic]

Monday night, at the furthest Sydney outpost, M5 to deal with and two teams in shit form

All we need is an inclement or cold forecast and it will be sub ten thousand without a shadow of a doubt.

Too many WT fans and STH with genuine anger and dismay at the poor performances that will maybe see a couple of young guys punted and the culprits remain.

I will go, no point wasting money I have already shelled out on a season ticket. It could be an utter bludger of an evening though

Monday night at Campbelltown is the worst for crowds. Maybe the fact we are playing Parra might add a few thousand for the fact they are somewhat local, but half the WT fan base who work would struggle to make it to Campbelltown by 7pm.

 

[Timmah]

Lol a Brisbane2 side getting 15k on a Monday night is still better than 90% of the current teams can manage!

WHAT A FANTASTIC REASON TO DILUTE THE SUPPORT IN QUEENSLAND!

Let's use the logic that multiple teams in Sydney draw poor crowds... so why not add one in Brisbane so we do the same there!

The Titans' and Broncos' crowds are already in decline compared to crowds in Sydney. Now is not the time to be introducing another team there "for the sake of TV".

You watch in two weeks time when another sold out Gosford match is ignored in favour of ridiculous "dots on a map" bullshit.

 

[BunniesMan]

WHAT A FANTASTIC REASON TO DILUTE THE SUPPORT IN QUEENSLAND!

Let's use the logic that multiple teams in Sydney draw poor crowds... so why not add one in Brisbane so we do the same there!

The Titans' and Broncos' crowds are already in decline compared to crowds in Sydney. Now is not the time to be introducing another team there "for the sake of TV".

You watch in two weeks time when another sold out Gosford match is ignored in favour of ridiculous "dots on a map" bullshit.

Hate saying it but I agree with this.

Crowds are declining in Queensland (Tits crowds have declined by more than 5% every year since 2008. I expect this to be the 2nd consecutive decline for Broncos crowds. Cowboys crowds are significantly down in the 2010-2012 period compared to 2005-2009*). Crowds are stable in NSW. Putting the Bears in Gosford will not hurt existing NSW clubs like a new SEQLD team will hurt existing Queensland clubs.

Bring in Perth and CC Bears for 2015. Nuff said.

* stats are from here: http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

 

[Timmah]

Crowds are not just stable in NSW, they're increasing from what I recall.

 

[Perth Red]

Not sure where you are getting Broncos crowds in free fall from? They grew and peaked in 2010, dropped a bit last year and are climbing again this year. To suggest another team is going to cause major problems for a club drawing 30K+ fans is laughable! NQ crowds have worringly dropped but a 2nd Brisbane team is hardly going to make a difference to them, Titans is hard to judge due to the disaster on and off the field they became, any club would have suffered equally. It's not about dots on a map Timmah but $'s in the bank for the NRL, that is why a Brisbane2 team is a dead cert.

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[Timmah]

Titans hard to judge?

:lol:

They've been run into the ground financially, charge a mint to attend games and haven't had a single average crowd increase since their second season (this year is their SIXTH).

The whole point is the NRL took the chance to expand into SEQ while forgetting the Central Coast in 2007, and in many ways it's been to their detriment.

To put ANOTHER team into SEQ at this point I think will dilute a strong market in terms of crowds and support. It might be good for TV but that alone won't save clubs in Queensland.

The simple argument from BNE2 fans that "there's too many teams in NSW" is just that - SIMPLE. It doesn't take anything into account but an outdated notion that you must put teams in certain areas, regardless of whether it would enhance the game.

BTW, Brisbane's average dropped to 32,388 after last night's game.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Where is the proof, apart from a couple of pelicans opinions, that putting in another S QLD side will dilute crowds in that region?

As for timtam the dragons/bulldogs/bears fan, a good crowd at the occasional game in Gosford is not evidence that a club in that part if the world will have consistently high crowds.

 

[BunniesMan]

Not sure where you are getting Broncos crowds in free fall from? They grew and peaked in 2010, dropped a bit last year and are climbing again this year.
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http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2009.html

Try to look a bit deeper into it. The site hasn't been updated this week yet and so the 2012 number doesn't include the poor crowd against Parra it.

With it the current average is 32.3k roughly.

Their remaining games at home are against the Storm and Penrith. Say they get roughly 33k against the Storm and 25k against Penrith, so an estimate of their 2012 crowds would be approx 31750.

So my original point stands, they look like having decling crowds for the second year in a row. Same with the Titans, same with the Cowboys.

The market is at saturation point. It would hurt crowds even further. The right move is to go with the Bears.

 

[Perth Red]

yeh because NSW clubs crowds are so strong and their corporate bases so firm it makes total sense to introduce an 11th team into that market!

Anyway this is drifting to expansion where we have a whole sub forum if you'd like to come over and join us!

 

[Timmah]

Where is the proof, apart from a couple of pelicans opinions, that putting in another S QLD side will dilute crowds in that region?

It's called maths. Supply and demand. More teams, divided alliances. Derbys will be great - outside that, particularly for the Titans, crowd numbers will suffer further. If fans can get in cheaper and see better footy less than an hour up the road, why the hell would they bother going to Robina anymore?

As for timtam the dragons/bulldogs/bears fan, a good crowd at the occasional game in Gosford is not evidence that a club in that part if the world will have consistently high crowds.

So you want proof more than opinion on one count, but you're happy to dismiss other proof because of your opinion.

Right.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

Titans hard to judge?

:lol:

They've been run into the ground financially, charge a mint to attend games and haven't had a single average crowd increase since their second season (this year is their SIXTH).

The whole point is the NRL took the chance to expand into SEQ while forgetting the Central Coast in 2007, and in many ways it's been to their detriment.

To put ANOTHER team into SEQ at this point I think will dilute a strong market in terms of crowds and support. It might be good for TV but that alone won't save clubs in Queensland.

The simple argument from BNE2 fans that "there's too many teams in NSW" is just that - SIMPLE. It doesn't take anything into account but an outdated notion that you must put teams in certain areas, regardless of whether it would enhance the game.

BTW, Brisbane's average dropped to 32,388 after last night's game.

The Gold Coast and Brisbane are two vastly different markets though, and no sporting code has been able to keep a viable club in that area. The Titans and the crowds are simply a reflection of that and the transient nature of the population in that area.

Many places can produce bumper crowds for one off games, and the Central Coast is no different. Put a permanent team in there and watch the crowds fall.

A second Brisbane team is a no-brainer. It has the population, it has the crowd potential, it has the corporate sponsorship dollars available and it has the TV impact.

 

[Timmah]

yeh because NSW clubs crowds are so strong and their corporate bases so firm it makes total sense to introduce an 11th team into that market!

Anyway this is drifting to expansion where we have a whole sub forum if you'd like to come over and join us!

No thanks, the lunatics are running the asylum there.

As for corporate support, does every NRL club in Sydney and NSW currently have a full board of sponsors?

Last I checked the answer is yes.

 

[Timmah]

The Gold Coast and Brisbane are two vastly different markets though, and no sporting code has been able to keep a viable club in that area. The Titans and the crowds are simply a reflection of that and the transient nature of the population in that area.

Many places can produce bumper crowds for one off games, and the Central Coast is no different. Put a permanent team in there and watch the crowds fall.

A second Brisbane team is a no-brainer. It has the population, it has the crowd potential, it has the corporate sponsorship dollars available and it has the TV impact.

Solution sounds simple to me - kill off the Titans, introduce BNE2, CC and Perth.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

It's called maths. Supply and demand. More teams, divided alliances. Derbys will be great - outside that, particularly for the Titans, crowd numbers will suffer further. If fans can get in cheaper and see better footy less than an hour up the road, why the hell would they bother going to Robina anymore?



So you want proof more than opinion on one count, but you're happy to dismiss other proof because of your opinion.

Right.

No Tim. I want an unbiased view point from someone with an IQ higher than a door jamb.

You've accentuated the fact that the Titans have been financially irresponsible and ticket prices to their games are too high but fail to recognize that if these things are rectified crowds may come back.

And of course, all of a sudden in TimmahTown crowds numbers are the true indicators of expansion :roll:

 

[Knownothing]

The Central Coast can put together a decent crowd for an occasional game, but that does not mean that a franchise there would be viable. How would the Knights be travelling financially, if not for Tinkler? They seem to struggle to attract decent sponsorship. Why would a Central Coast team be more attractive to sponsors?

 

[Timmah]

No Tim. I want an unbiased view point from someone with an IQ higher than a door jamb.

You've accentuated the fact that the Titans have been financially irresponsible and ticket prices to their games are too high but fail to recognize that if these things are rectified crowds may come back.

And of course, all of a sudden in TimmahTown crowds numbers are the true indicators of expansion :roll:

I'm sorry, what points you to the fact that those outstanding issues on the Gold Coast will be fixed?

You yourself acknowledged the region struggles for traction with any sporting franchise introduced to the area.

Why keep fighting what we all know is a lost cause when we have a winnable one about 850km down the road?

 

[juro]

Try to look a bit deeper into it. The site hasn't been updated this week yet and so the 2012 number doesn't include the poor crowd against Parra it.

With it the current average is 32.3k roughly.

Their remaining games at home are against the Storm and Penrith. Say they get roughly 33k against the Storm and 25k against Penrith, so an estimate of their 2012 crowds would be approx 31750.

So my original point stands, they look like having decling crowds for the second year in a row. Same with the Titans, same with the Cowboys.

The market is at saturation point. It would hurt crowds even further. The right move is to go with the Bears.

So you're suggesting that the Broncos are going to average 29k in their final 2 games, one against the Storm on a Friday night and the other in round 26 (day not determined yet) which will be Petero's final game? Okay...

 

[Timmah]

The Central Coast can put together a decent crowd for an occasional game, but that does not mean that a franchise there would be viable. How would the Knights be travelling financially, if not for Tinkler? They seem to struggle to attract decent sponsorship. Why would a Central Coast team be more attractive to sponsors?

The region has supported an A-League soccer team on smaller crowd averages for over 8 seasons now and they're about to develop a massive sport and tourism precinct in the area. I doubt that a rugby league team would have any trouble gaining traction in a league-mad area.

Not only that, a Central Coast team would also call on parts of northern Sydney for corporate and fan support, with a likely game at North Sydney Oval each season.

 

[Panther_Daz]

I have defended the Cowboys crowds in the past but surely they will hit 20k this Saturday Night?

Weather Forecast looks sensational, sitting in 4th spot against the defending Premiers.

No excuse.

I think Newcastle will hit 30k too.

 

[Timmah]

Round 21 :: Jul 27-30
Friday 27 July
Dragons 26 def Storm 18 @ WIN (Crowd: 11,477), 7:30pm Ch 9/GEM - thread
Roosters 16 lost to Titans 36 @ Allianz (Crowd: 8,134), 7:30pm Ch 9/GEM - thread
Saturday 28 July
Bulldogs 32 def Cowboys 18 @ ANZ (Crowd: 15,650), 5:30pm FOX Sports LIVE - thread
Sea Eagles 24 def Warriors 22 @ Patersons WA (Crowd: 20,095), 7:30pm FOX Sports LIVE (5:30pm WA local time) - thread
Sharks 20 lost to Panthers 21 (golden point) @ Toyota (Crowd: 7,848), 7:30pm FOX Sports LIVE - thread
Sunday 29 July
Raiders 6 lost to Knights 36 @ Canberra (Crowd: 10,260), 2:00pm FOX Sports LIVE - thread
Rabbitohs 32 def Tigers 6 @ ANZ (Crowd: 29,863), 3:00pm Ch 9/GEM - thread
Monday 30 July
Broncos 22 lost to Eels 42 @ Suncorp (Crowd: 22,626), 7:00pm FOX Sports LIVE - thread
Crowd total Round 21: 125,953
Crowd average Round 21: 15,744
Crowd total 2012 (152 games): 2,480,156
Crowd average 2012: 16,317

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=393936

This year after R21: Total 2,480,156; Average 16,317
Last year after R21: Total 2,451,268; Average 16,127