Crowd Watch Mk 3

[Raiderdave]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...re-bums-on-seats/story-e6frg7t6-1226478413172

Craig Craig Craig :roll:

this bit here champ ...

While there are parallels, the difference between the two codes is the size of the crowds. It's fair to say the NRL crowds for the finals have been a bit disappointing.

History has shown us the Aussie rules supporters turn up in greater numbers, not only for finals but throughout the season. They get bigger AFL crowds in Melbourne when Sydney has the bigger population.

this needs to be addressed

they arent having a great final series crowds wise either
its 60,000 down on last year so far
will be around 90,000 down after this weekend

while we'll end up being around the same as last year:sarcasm:

I'd say we're a lot happier then they are Craig with finals crowds
but lets not let facts get in the way of more anti league BS from within our game. :crazy:

 

[Desert Qlder]

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/ticket-prices-not-to-blame-for-poor-crowd-afl-20120915-25yr5.html

 

[BunniesMan]

Good article by Bellamy. And Raiderdave in the grand scheme of things overall crowds and overall revenue from those crowds is more important than any year to year rise or decline or stagnation.

Rugby League is great to watch live but on tv because of the nature of the game you see the vast majority of what is happening the majority of the time in the standard tv angle. The only thing you consistently miss is when and how the back 3 get in position to recover kicks. With AFL what is happening 50m either side of the ball is just as important as what is happening where the ball is. People that don't like/understand the game won't get it even if they watch the game but for the rest of us there is a massive difference between tv AFL and live AFL.

That is the primary reason for the difference in crowds. Not because Melbourne people are somehow superior humans to Sydney people, but because the nature of the game and its relationship with tv. And that reality provides both pros and cons to both codes. It allows the AFL to charge double what the NRL is for prelim tickets while getting a similar crowd in Sydney. On the other hand rugby league gets more consistent ratings which helps with tv rights negotiations.

 

[Valheru]

League's greatest asset is it's greatest weakness.


Tribalism.

I hate AFL, but I respect the fact that the Swans are popular and have done well. But the difference between the crowds is this:

* Going to the AFL is going to be 20,000 Collingwood fans. Every Swans fan. Every GWS fan. Everyone who has ever lived in Victoria. Everyone who lives in ACT for work from the Southern states. Their TV ratings in Sydney will be 36 people because they will have maximised their potential audience into a crowd. And good on them, I wouldnt care if no-one in Melbourne watched TV if the Storm got 65,000 to the MCG for this week.

* In NRL, there will be 30000 Dogs fans, 30000 Souths fans and 7000 neutrals. Meanwhile, 600,000 people will sit at home and watch on TV. I consider myself a league nut...Saints member, spend alot of time on forums, twitter is all league, constantly wearing merch etc. But theres no way Im going because I HATE both teams with a passion. I would have gone if a team I was impartial about were playing - Raiders, Warriors, Cowboys. But those two? No way. And its this tribalism that makes league great. But it certainly caps our crowds.

Agree, and in addition to that and specifically in respect to the situation this weekend, IMO more non dogs/souths fans are likely to go to the AFL then they are the NRL prelim. That would be far from the prevailing attitude on here but in general I think it true. The Swans offer a novelty for this weekend being in a GF qualifier, Syd VS Melb, NSW VS VIC blah blah blah and however else they are trying to sell it.

A lot of people are probably willing to get on the bandwagon for this one game whilst a lot of non dogs/souths supporters probably can?t stand the thought of them being in the finals let alone paying to watch it.

 

[BunniesMan]

Another unfortunate thing, I've heard from a couple neutral types that they won't go to the game because "we'll get stabbed by Dogs fans". Disappointing and unfair stereotypes like that do hurt how many neutrals you can get to the game.

 

[Brutus]

I wonder if rugby league will attract the biggest crowd this weekend of both codes?

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

League's greatest asset is it's greatest weakness.

Tribalism.

I hate AFL, but I respect the fact that the Swans are popular and have done well. But the difference between the crowds is this:

* Going to the AFL is going to be 20,000 Collingwood fans. Every Swans fan. Every GWS fan. Everyone who has ever lived in Victoria. Everyone who lives in ACT for work from the Southern states. Their TV ratings in Sydney will be 36 people because they will have maximised their potential audience into a crowd. And good on them, I wouldnt care if no-one in Melbourne watched TV if the Storm got 65,000 to the MCG for this week.

* In NRL, there will be 30000 Dogs fans, 30000 Souths fans and 7000 neutrals. Meanwhile, 600,000 people will sit at home and watch on TV. I consider myself a league nut...Saints member, spend alot of time on forums, twitter is all league, constantly wearing merch etc. But theres no way Im going because I HATE both teams with a passion. I would have gone if a team I was impartial about were playing - Raiders, Warriors, Cowboys. But those two? No way. And its this tribalism that makes league great. But it certainly caps our crowds.

Agreed. I've got more respect for the shit that I flush down the toilet each morning than I do for clubs such as yours. I'd sooner feed my appendage through a meat grinder than pay to watch scum like St Merge play. But would I miss it on TV? No way in the world.

The tribal aspect can be our greatest strength and weakness at the same time.

 

[Raiderdave]

Good article by Bellamy. And Raiderdave in the grand scheme of things overall crowds and overall revenue from those crowds is more important than any year to year rise or decline or stagnation.



.

ok F wit ....

overall AFL crowds & overall revenue are also way ... way down in 2012
but craig failed to mention this

all he said .. is our finals crowds have been dissapointing ... & they aren't down at all :sarcasm:

making your statement here

Good article by Bellamy

proof definitve .. that what my labrador left on my neighbours front lawn last nite

has more brains then you ;-)

 

[azza29]

Thanks Craig, enlightening stuff.

I'm still left wondering what it is that happens 'off the ball' that has got crowds so enraptured in ozzie rules.

Punch-ups

Also, play travels too quickly for the camera operators/vision mixers much of the time, which can be frustrating for viewers.

Bellamy makes a great point. There's a big difference between supporting your team from the couch and cheering them on in a stadium.

I'm yet to take an AFL fan to a Storm game and have them tell me they didn't enjoy it. Unfortunately most are too narrow-minded to even consider checking out the different code (reverse is probably true as well...).

 

[Desert Qlder]

Tonight I will be taking an ozzie rules fan to the Preliminary final in Melbourne. He is greatly looking forward to it and will no doubt have a good time.

I've not encountered the hatred of Rugby league by Victorians that oftens gets bandied about. Most are intrigued by the game and respectful of its skills and toughness. But if you are a fan of an ozzie rules club, then when it comes time to go to live sport then that club will always come first. Finding time to attend Rugby League matches becomes a secondary consideration like every other pastime. It is the conversion of passing interest to regular attendance that remains the great challenge of all RL cubs, Melbourne Storm included. And they have their own peculiar hurdles to overcome.

Bellamy's article tells us nothing new and as has been pointed out, contains numerous factual errors. The crowd in Adelaide last week for instance was horrendous for that highly supported club. Yet very little mention is made of it in comparison to the Manly effort the same weekend.

As has been stated for years on this forum, commentary such as this continues to perpetuate myths and unrealitites about support in our game.

 

[Raiderdave]

I wonder if rugby league will attract the biggest crowd this weekend of both codes?

the other vicky kicky final in Melbourne by yesterday evening had sold less tickets to either game in Sydney ...51,000 odd
... & only 1000 sold yesterday so its all but stopped selling tickets

but unlike Sydney this doesnt inlude any members of the MCG
its thought it will get to the mid 60's when they are included

Swines ticket sales have slowed too
they may get to the early 60's all up

I think the Dogs & Souths will get to the high 60's & win the crowd contest
although hardly convincingly like they should have with 75K plus :roll:

 

[Raiderdave]

Punch-ups

.

punch ups :sarcasm:

:lol::lol:

I'd back a wet paper bag to touch up that lot
that mob brawling is some of the funniest sh.t you'll see.:lol:

 

[Jamberoo]

The difference between Melbourne and Sydney is that Victorians get very little exposure to NRL. SOO is it.
C9 recently started putting Storm games on a secondary channel, but even Foxtel does not have many games live unlike AFL.

There is certainly no hatred for NRL in Victoria, nothing in the papers about any 'war'. Perhaps because NRL is virtually invisibly here.

If tonight's game was not up against Pies V Swans on TV, I reckon they would sell out - we got over 30K at Etihad a few years back on 30K for a regular game @ MCG V Dragons in 2000. Should have been on the Saturday night or Sunday.

The media (sports radio, AFL footy show) always pump up the Storm, but average crowds have not really changed since 1998.

Unfortunately for NRL, AFL is impenetrable in Victoria.

 

[azza29]

I've not encountered the hatred of Rugby league by Victorians that oftens gets bandied about.

I don't think that your typical AFL fan hates league, they're just indifferent. I definitely haven't met any Melburnians who dislike the Storm the way a lot of Sydney folk seem to hate the Swans or Giants.

 

[Perth Red]

Good article by Bellamy. And Raiderdave in the grand scheme of things overall crowds and overall revenue from those crowds is more important than any year to year rise or decline or stagnation.

Rugby League is great to watch live but on tv because of the nature of the game you see the vast majority of what is happening the majority of the time in the standard tv angle. The only thing you consistently miss is when and how the back 3 get in position to recover kicks. With AFL what is happening 50m either side of the ball is just as important as what is happening where the ball is. People that don't like/understand the game won't get it even if they watch the game but for the rest of us there is a massive difference between tv AFL and live AFL.

That is the primary reason for the difference in crowds. Not because Melbourne people are somehow superior humans to Sydney people, but because the nature of the game and its relationship with tv. And that reality provides both pros and cons to both codes. It allows the AFL to charge double what the NRL is for prelim tickets while getting a similar crowd in Sydney. On the other hand rugby league gets more consistent ratings which helps with tv rights negotiations.

This is such a fu**ing myth! Difference in crowds has sweet FA to do with the view from the stands. I've been to 3 AFL games (all derbies Eagles v Dockers back in the day when you could get a ticket without being a member) at Subiaco oval. We sat well elevated behind the goals each time. I would say we watched 70% of the game on the big screens because the action was so far away! Once the ball went past the 50m arc line that was it you couldn't see any of the action on the ball or close to it.

Now compare this to the NRL games at nib where I was 80% of the time less than 100metres from the action, you could hear and almost feel every big hit up and tackle, you could almost reach out and touch the winger running past. The atmosphere was 10 times better with 15k in the ground than 50k at Subi and fans were amusing in their banter as opposed to shouting "ball" every two minutes.

The reason AFL draws fans and NRL doesn't are many and varied but this whole BS about being better to watch in TV or at the game is just bullox and a weak excuse we have come up with! imo of course.

 

[DIOGENES]

This is such a fu**ing myth! Difference in crowds has sweet FA to do with the view from the stands. I've been to 3 AFL games (all derbies Eagles v Dockers back in the day when you could get a ticket without being a member) at Subiaco oval. We sat well elevated behind the goals each time. I would say we watched 70% of the game on the big screens because the action was so far away! Once the ball went past the 50m arc line that was it you couldn't see any of the action on the ball or close to it.

Now compare this to the NRL games at nib where I was 80% of the time less than 100metres from the action, you could hear and almost feel every big hit up and tackle, you could almost reach out and touch the winger running past. The atmosphere was 10 times better with 15k in the ground than 50k at Subi and fans were amusing in their banter as opposed to shouting "ball" every two minutes.

The reason AFL draws fans and NRL doesn't are many and varied but this whole BS about being better to watch in TV or at the game is just bullox and a weak excuse we have come up with! imo of course.

i've never worked out why AFL fans like to sit behind the goals - except for the actual goal kicks the view must be minimal

 

[carlosthedwarf]

When I would go to NBL games I liked sitting behind one of the backboards because it gave me a better understanding of the spacing on the court. You do lose depth perception though.

Can't imagine it's the same in AFL though since the field is so large and you'd lose any ability to judge spacing much quicker. I think they just want to be on TV or catch a ball.

 

[Timmah]

ahhhhh :sarcasm:
according to your own clubs membership manager
they're already included
( I dunno she may be wrong but I'd doubt it )

so we've had

Day 1 20,000
Day 2 22,000
Day 3 8,000
Day 4 7,000

they'll trend down a bit tomorrow again so
Day 5 5,000 to 6,000
Day 6 3,000 to 4,000 including walk ups ... there were very few in 09 or 10

we'll struggle to get to 70,000

my down graded crowd tip

67,000
which is almost a fail in my opinion :x

How's about you get off your arse and go to the game instead of filling the pages here with emoticons?

It makes sense, there is no denying that Parramatta are the most supported club in Sydney, the 2009 qualifying final had around 50,000 Eels fans to around 25,000 doggies fans.

That's just the way it is, but I think I have an explanation for the fickle attitude.

I have encountered a lot of educated people in my line of work, masters degrees holders and the sprinkling of PhD's. Whilst not many follow support a great deal, and that includes RL, the ones that do are overwhelmingly Parra supporters. Amongst Sydney club, tigers are next but still along way down.

I think it's this which is why many Parra fans disappear when the team isn't faring well. Parra fans have the richest and most interesting lives amongst all RL fans.

Whether they are doing research to find a cure for cancer, programming space shuttle launches, or having 3 girl-1 guy group sex, they will always have something interesting to do, and unfortunately for parra's ticket revenue, they will opt for these endeavours when a losing team seems uninteresting.

Doggies fans, well going to and from the game easily accommodates anti-social mayhem such as vandalism, harassing caucasian chicks or burning Australian flags.

Souths fans hope to find empty cars or houses to break and enter in to on the way to or from the ground.

So for both of these clubs will have a full attendance week in, week out because they don't have much else going for them.

:lol: Well written.

Another unfortunate thing, I've heard from a couple neutral types that they won't go to the game because "we'll get stabbed by Dogs fans". Disappointing and unfair stereotypes like that do hurt how many neutrals you can get to the game.

Couldn't agree more. *feels dirty*

 

[t-ba]

Rewinding the clock for an observation on sydney crowds this season. I cant be sure as i dont have the records for sydney only games across the years but from the crowd data i have put together this year i have a hunch the average of 15,814 is the highest its ever been. Can anyone confirm this?

and FYI this is games in sydney metro i.e. no wollongong, gosford, interstate or suncorp double headers are included even though they are the crowds of sydney clubs they weren't played in sydney!

2005 might have been slightly higher. My count is 1,502,434 over 94 games for 15,983. Manly (8th), Penrith (10th), Easts (9th) and Cronulla (7th) actually drew really well that year :sarcasm:

 

[t-ba]

I wonder if rugby league will attract the biggest crowd this weekend of both codes?

If it does, it would be the first time on record that RL had the biggest crowd on the penultimate weekend. Comparatively, this year has been massive for our game.