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Damned if you do and damned if you don’t

SAP58

Juniors
Messages
1,322
I'm all for planning for 2022 & bring some of the younger players through this year if they can handle it mentally but Hook as we have said has some challenges ahead. The forwards let us down again last weekend after starting the year off like a team that really wanted to win they have slipped back into their 2020 mentality. We have signed Molo for next year so far but the issue for Hook is the majority of the current underperforming forward pack are still signed for 2022 except for Fuimaono & Ellis. Vaughan has a player option which I assume he will take up so what we have got now is what he has to use in 2022 plus a signing or two hence the comments that there isnt a lot of spare cash to buy any marquee players. Oviously not resigning Norman & Dufty has freed up some cash but if we are going to promote some of the younger brigade coming through we are going to need some of that cash to top up their contracts as a result. As we have said Hook certainly has some challenges to get this squad playing consistantly like they did earlier in the season however 2022 may also be a frustating year for us all.
 

Forbes Creek Dragons

First Grade
Messages
5,078
Not sure he has earned the right for anything. We have payed him 850K a year for 3 years of mostly rubbish.
I’d drop him.
Also, I reckon he’s the sooky type who will tank now, he doesn’t want another contract anyway probably.
We will see if he does I’d drop immediately, if we are still in contention I’d still play him. If we drop out of the race I would look to the future. My biggest worry is that he causes a split in the group or starts bringing others down. If that were the case he would need to be dropped. The fact he doesn’t have an offer nor does Dufty really shows me Hook is making the correct calls.
 

Forbes Creek Dragons

First Grade
Messages
5,078
Did you watch the game before the main game on the weekend? Who does he replace players with? Who is there that is putting up their hand to take a spot in first grade?

If everybody thought the NRL side was the worst game they'd seen, they didn't watch the reserves in action before that.

Seriously, we've got no-one to replace them with. This is from today:

St George Illawarra Dragons​

  • Zac Lomax (thumb, round 15-16)
  • Josh McGuire (suspension, round 16)
  • Tyrell Fuimaono (suspension, round 16)
  • Max Feagai (head knock, round 16)
  • Cameron McInnes (knee, season)
We've also lost Sullivan for a majority of the season due to injury. He's not due back until next round.

And with the forwards, we've got Ellis, Burns and Farmer Silly in reserves. As well as Hunt. The weekend didn't seem them stake a claim for a spot in the first grade team.

So based on this, we aren't going to see any potential major changes until the next round - purely because the options we have are currently worse than what are running out on the field.
Surely Sullivan is out for longer than that with a broken toe.
 

Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
5,290
Whats the situation with McInnes....I know hes going but I take it we are still paying him for 2021......if so he obviously is using up salary cap coin is this correct ?
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
19,075
Did you watch the game before the main game on the weekend? Who does he replace players with? Who is there that is putting up their hand to take a spot in first grade?

If everybody thought the NRL side was the worst game they'd seen, they didn't watch the reserves in action before that.

Seriously, we've got no-one to replace them with. This is from today:

St George Illawarra Dragons​

  • Zac Lomax (thumb, round 15-16)
  • Josh McGuire (suspension, round 16)
  • Tyrell Fuimaono (suspension, round 16)
  • Max Feagai (head knock, round 16)
  • Cameron McInnes (knee, season)
We've also lost Sullivan for a majority of the season due to injury. He's not due back until next round.

And with the forwards, we've got Ellis, Burns and Farmer Silly in reserves. As well as Hunt. The weekend didn't seem them stake a claim for a spot in the first grade team.

So based on this, we aren't going to see any potential major changes until the next round - purely because the options we have are currently worse than what are running out on the field.

No mate, I didn't see the game before first grade and you raise a fair point.

I dont know if those kids mentioned are the answer as I havent seen enough of them actually playing in the top grade.

Griffin has a massive job on his hands, thats for sure.
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
728
No mate, I didn't see the game before first grade and you raise a fair point.

I dont know if those kids mentioned are the answer as I havent seen enough of them actually playing in the top grade.

Griffin has a massive job on his hands, thats for sure.
Watched the game before also Tru it was like they were in slow motion ...... Nothing , no direction no game plan no getting over the advantage line ..... Looked a lot like first grade but slower .....
 

Draginzaaar

Bench
Messages
2,670
Perfectly said kit66. My wife says that Dragons followers are losers - just goes to show how ingrained I am and for some 30 years she has listened to me whinge and whinge and I am whinging now. The best year of course for us this century was in 2010 and if not for the likes of Bennett coaching our club to the premiership, we would have been losers for quite a long time.

Our dreadful seasons keep hanging in and that is really affecting our culture and attitude. I can only say that for so many years our coaching has been poor, the administration poor even though our roster in general hasn't been too bad, it's just not good enough to kill it year in and year out.

My daughter-in-law said that I should follow another team just to have that winning feeling again just to stop the whinging and stress of us losing more than winning. It would go against my grain because I deadset hate the other teams so til death do us part, the Dragons will do me and I can continue to whinge, but quietly at home.
I've the same Dave. I live in Newcastle and my wife follows the Knights. They might not be the Storm but their supporters show up every week and they never give up even if they are getting flogged. I will never leave my Dragons but Jesus start playing for each other and the jersey.
 

Draginzaaar

Bench
Messages
2,670
Ive been around and played the game long enough to realise that its not a quick fix to right the wrongs of the previous people in charge...for starters Hooks appointment was and still is a major step in the right direction ...and yes as much as we'd like to we cant just willy nilly blood blokes that arnt physically and mature enough up to it so to speak, and obviously it is going to take time....forget whose injured, suspended or is leaving etc that happens to most clubs not all admittedly but a large majority most of the time.....what I think we have all had a gutful (for want of a better word ) of is when we serve up the crap that was evident last Monday......like many on here I hate losing but as long as our team gave it their all then I can accept defeat but for mine theres some blokes in our side that just dont put the effort in like they should be.....hopefully and Im sure he will Hook will rectify the issues as soon as its possible
Then you have blokes like Lawrie who is so slow and gives away 6 agains as if he's doing it on purpose.
 

thebigredv

Bench
Messages
3,746
Then you have blokes like Lawrie who is so slow and gives away 6 agains as if he's doing it on purpose.
It's infuriating. Every week we, a confidence team, put ourselves on the back foot by testing the referees patience and the six agains just start streaming. Then the coach comes out and uses the extra tackles we have to do as a reason for our loss. Why not coach it out. You can have linespeed with high discipline but dragons do neither.
 

Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
5,290
Then you have blokes like Lawrie who is so slow and gives away 6 agains as if he's doing it on purpose.
Mmmm yes he does unfortunately....having said that so does McCullough, locks his arms in around players and frequently gives away repeat sets....tbh we have the slowest pack in the nrl both in defence and attack....slow mo plodders most weeks
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,845
I've the same Dave. I live in Newcastle and my wife follows the Knights. They might not be the Storm but their supporters show up every week and they never give up even if they are getting flogged. I will never leave my Dragons but Jesus start playing for each other and the jersey.
Ideally as a fan of league, everyone would like to see his club make the top 8 every year and that club by doing so has a chance of playing in and winning the big one. We know which one(s) can do this and those who follow those clubs in recent years have definitely been able to look forward with confidence with their team having many wins and more often than not come away from each weekend with a good deal of satisfaction.

I am hoping that one day that scenario comes to us Dragons fans and we have to trust the coaches and administration of the club to get us there. I'm not very good at holding my breath though.
 

Illusion

Juniors
Messages
728
Ideally as a fan of league, everyone would like to see his club make the top 8 every year and that club by doing so has a chance of playing in and winning the big one. We know which one(s) can do this and those who follow those clubs in recent years have definitely been able to look forward with confidence with their team having many wins and more often than not come away from each weekend with a good deal of satisfaction.

I am hoping that one day that scenario comes to us Dragons fans and we have to trust the coaches and administration of the club to get us there. I'm not very good at holding my breath though.
What ever they are doing love them hate them , Every year no matter what they are a chance ....... STORM .......
 

merahputih

Juniors
Messages
844
What ever they are doing love them hate them , Every year no matter what they are a chance ....... STORM

The Storm have what the St George Illawarra joint venture was supposed to achieve: a "nursery" of junior players to tap into, which would cement their future recruitment base. But I think the biggest factor was appointing Bellamy as coach in 2003 (must be some sort of record). Bellamy is head and shoulders above any other current NRL coach- including his former mentor Bennett. The Storm rarely chase big name players, choosing instead to tap into their junior base or recruit average players from other teams. Either way they grow an extra leg under Bellamy's coaching. And to think we were apparently close to snaring him to replace Wayne in 2012!
 
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Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
5,290
What ever they are doing love them hate them , Every year no matter what they are a chance ....... STORM .......
Yep thats very true...its in their DNA......it used to be in ours many many years ago.....growing up most players wanted to play for the Red V because we were regarded as the pinnacle for young blokes to aspire to......and further to your comment Illusion the Storm players would run through a brick wall for Bellamy year after year no matter what the situation....sadly most of our blokes would balk at tissue paper
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,845
I agree Illusion.

It is just unbelievably amazing that Bellamy and his assistants, many of whom have come and gone since Bellamy's commencement at the Storm, just know how to coach a team of players, who are virtually plucked from nowhere and not big names, to help the club win, win, win.

That club has got the game sewn up with Bellamy there and it will be a sad day for the Storm once he leaves and joins another club or retires. How the hell do they do it? We know that they have cheated in the past and they paid a price for that and I think they have learned a valuable lesson and now making sure they have only one "official salary cap book".

If there ever was any Hall of Fame for coaches, Bellamy would be on top of the list.

Our "historic" past is the past and we must focus on a creating a powerhouse club with highly skilled and motivated staff with a big shift away from the old ways of the current BOD.

We have to change in order to gain more recognition as a rugby league club going forward and to make the Dragons attractive for obtaining players who want to play for us and if Hook isn't able to do this in the time he is contracted to us, make an offer that cannot be refused to Bellamy to overhaul our system.
 

HenryTatana

Juniors
Messages
1,196
Perfectly said kit66. My wife says that Dragons followers are losers - just goes to show how ingrained I am and for some 30 years she has listened to me whinge and whinge and I am whinging now. The best year of course for us this century was in 2010 and if not for the likes of Bennett coaching our club to the premiership, we would have been losers for quite a long time.

Our dreadful seasons keep hanging in and that is really affecting our culture and attitude. I can only say that for so many years our coaching has been poor, the administration poor even though our roster in general hasn't been too bad, it's just not good enough to kill it year in and year out.

My daughter-in-law said that I should follow another team just to have that winning feeling again just to stop the whinging and stress of us losing more than winning. It would go against my grain because I deadset hate the other teams so til death do us part, the Dragons will do me and I can continue to whinge, but quietly at home.
Your Mrs sounds like my Mrs.
 

D4L_Dave

Juniors
Messages
57
I agree that if we start calling for Griffen's head on a platter this soon, no one will want to come coach here.

On the other hand, while it was a long time ago, the climb from 3rd last 1990, and being a rabble, to come in and be in the top 5 all year only missing finals due to last round loss to the Raiders aiming for a 3 Pete followed by 2 GF's in a row 1992-93 all of which Brian Smith achieved by blooding the young ones and getting more out of the others. In fact he revolutionised the style of play and we had 20 years of success following that missing finals 4 of 5 times. He did it boldly stating at season start, he was leaving a big portion of the cap unspent, Offiah was only purchase on a 12 game deal for UK. Best thing he could have done and no shit that was the 90's but what he did is still relevant, how he did it will require adapting to current times. He effectively had a successor in Brown, while Bennett got us the premiership we probably would have got with Brown eventually, Bennett effectively gutted the legacy of the previous 20 years. Which is why having brought his 2014 Broncos side better be just a short term fix, coz i think as said above we have seen this movie before. One good omen, is Smith took over from Craig Young and now Hook from Dean Young.

Im holding onto hope Hook has his grand plan on a similar level. Otherwise it's the board we should be hunting down not a first year coach
 

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