Dear Ben, time to sign the contract

[Walpole]

Yes, It's a pretty convincing argument for the fact that they are all overpaid. It's all a bit ridiculous IMO. In fact, If Ben was my mate, I'd ask him to tie his contract to me playing hooker - I'm only 65 and only one knee is a bit sore occasionally. I reckon I'd be worth about $500k a year.

What's your service from dummy half like? Got much of a kicking game? Have to say, even without answers to these questions I'm warming to the idea of you trotting out in the 9 next season.

 

[Mojo]

What's your service from dummy half like? Got much of a kicking game? Have to say, even without answers to these questions I'm warming to the idea of you trotting out in the 9 next season.

Slow as a wet week, no kicking game, never know what I'm going to do next, no communication skills, should have retired about 15 years ago, Hook coached me as a five year old: I have all the right credentials.

 

[BLM01]

If your Sullivan and your sitting on your couch tonite thinking of your future he’d be thinking .,
Hunt at 7 for next 3 years
Liddle at 9 for at least next 12 mnths
I won’t be a 14 so at best I’m a back up half and potentially a back up 9.. my coach is Hook and learning f**k all !

If I go to the Bulldogs I’m possibly the starting 7 w Kyle Flanagan as my competition…I’m coached by Ciraldo and my 5/8 is Burton ….hmmm let me think …
f**k it Bulldogs here I come!

My last comment re Hunt v Sullivan;

Who says Hunt will be 7 next 3 years. Next year Yes whilst Sullivan chaperones him and develops a
1. Kicking game that he lacks as Amone's is not strong enough yet
2. body to handle 80 mins defence which he clearly has not yet as only last year was still affected by injuries by playing mostly reggies..when actually on the field
3. An ability to run the whole team calling the shots

I hope he will get there and want him to stay and to me the club are grooming him if fit for 24 to likely take over with Hunt to 9 or 14 to cover and insurance for most of the spine. (that is why we signed Liddle for a year) and Dragons are reportedly paying him big money from 2024 on a promise expecting him to be ready. His body is his biggest issue ATM not the coach
He is not a walk up 7 at the Dogs Round 1 on halfback money or anywhere else.
Stay here and develop fully at the Dragons if you can

 

[Lovemedragons]

I’m hearing you, but do we actually know that the club “clearly did not?”

Hasn't he been reported as asking for a release - less than 24 hours after the Hunt news? Seems if they tried they failed.

 

[Lovemedragons]

Souths let Reynolds go - as good a career as he had there - trusted in Ilias and still wound up 80 minutes away from a GF. This is cos they have recruited well in all areas, have a dominant pack of forwards and play good, expansive attacking football.
Given that Saints have just done the exact opposite, I'm predicting that we might just finish 80 minutes away from a wooden spoon.
The Board, imo, need a kick up their collective ar$e and B Hunt can lie on a bed of $750K plus and f#ck himself on it.
Having just said that... when I was a kid my favourite player was Mark Shulman. Shulman was third on the list behind Billy Smith and Ross Strudwick. One was a legend, the other a more than handy half. In the modern era, Shulman would have had a big sulk and slunk off to another club to play firsts. In reality, the guy stayed until he got the top job and would have kept going if it hadn't been for a Parramatta grub who liked to use his knees.
Sullivan is a good player, but nothing he has done has shown me that is in the Billy Smith, Ross Strudwick or Mark Shulman class. Maybe he's not even a first grade half. So he needs to cool his jets and play his ar$e off in KoE to show everyone that he is. Instead of slinking off to the Dogs.

Shulman was wonderful, such a tiny guy in stature but stood tall in the Red V. He only had to stand up on the sidelines in the 77 replay to inspire the boys to a premiership.

 

[Maddragon99]

Hasn't he been reported as asking for a release - less than 24 hours after the Hunt news? Seems if they tried they failed.

Perhaps I’m naive but given that Sullivan (and Sloan) is under contract until end ‘25 isn’t it illegal for Gould or anyone to speak to Sullivan until November 1st 2024?

 

[St Tangles]

Perhaps I’m naive but given that Sullivan (and Sloan) is under contract until end ‘25 isn’t it illegal for Gould or anyone to speak to Sullivan until November 1st 2024?

Only illegal to formally offer a contract

Doesn't stop them talking to his manager and saying we are interested in player x and will pay him x amount of dollars if he became available

 

[Maddragon99]

Only illegal to formally offer a contract

Doesn't stop them talking to his manager and saying we are interested in player x and will pay him x amount of dollars if he became available

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Mojo]

Hasn't he been reported as asking for a release - less than 24 hours after the Hunt news? Seems if they tried they failed.

Yes, but it was also once reported that the earth is flat. Reports of Bud's release request may be true, but we all know that rugby league journos don't run on credibility credentials any more, just click counts.

Regardless, I can't help the feeling that this club has been 'used' big time by the current Qld faction, lead by Hook.

 

[True_Believer]

yes. It is true.
1) Ramsey, Amone, Sullivan , Hunt
but the alternatives are?
2) Ramsey, Amone , Hunt, liddle
3) Ramsey, Amone, Sullivan, Macca
or…
are they really better. Macca is more experienced yes… but
liddle Is more experienced but…

NOTB's original post was about supporting Illias and making it to one game from the finals. I just stated the reason that Rabbits were able to achieve that is because of the rest of spine. All quality, experienced players.

Moving Hunt to Dummy Half and playing Sullivan in the 7 puts us at a huge disadvantage. Irrespective of our other options, adding Sullivan to a spine already low on experience and expecting a better result is, to say the least, delusional. Sullivan doesn't have a lot of first grade experience and if you look at Amone it took him most of the year to even start to show some progress. Still far from a quality half - he too needs more time. As does Ramsay. If you are happy to wallow in the wilderness for another few years with no guarantee we'll come out the other end having made any progress, then sure lets do it.

TLDR - We need more than 1 experienced player in the spine and we need to balance that experience with bringing through youth in a staggered approach.

 

[Mojo]

NOTB's original post was about supporting Illias and making it to one game from the finals. I just stated the reason that Rabbits were able to achieve that is because of the rest of spine. All quality, experienced players.

Moving Hunt to Dummy Half and playing Sullivan in the 7 puts us at a huge disadvantage. Irrespective of our other options, adding Sullivan to a spine already low on experience and expecting a better result is, to say the least, delusional. Sullivan doesn't have a lot of first grade experience and if you look at Amone it took him most of the year to even start to show some progress. Still far from a quality half - he too needs more time. As does Ramsay. If you are happy to wallow in the wilderness for another few years with no guarantee we'll come out the other end having made any progress, then sure lets do it.

TLDR - We need more than 1 experienced player in the spine and we need to balance that experience with bringing through youth in a staggered approach.

The old chestnut though: how do you get experience if you never get a crack at the role?

 

[Parko1310]

The old chestnut though: how do you get experience if you never get a crack at the role?

I think you'll find the suggestion is you can't play three inexperienced players in the spine all at once, which is completely correct. Amone and Ramsey (or Sloan) are not going to remain inexperienced forever. They're approaching 50 games, so once they're more comfortable in the top grade, that is when you give Sullivan his experience.

 

[Maddragon99]

NOTB's original post was about supporting Illias and making it to one game from the finals. I just stated the reason that Rabbits were able to achieve that is because of the rest of spine. All quality, experienced players.

Moving Hunt to Dummy Half and playing Sullivan in the 7 puts us at a huge disadvantage. Irrespective of our other options, adding Sullivan to a spine already low on experience and expecting a better result is, to say the least, delusional. Sullivan doesn't have a lot of first grade experience and if you look at Amone it took him most of the year to even start to show some progress. Still far from a quality half - he too needs more time. As does Ramsay. If you are happy to wallow in the wilderness for another few years with no guarantee we'll come out the other end having made any progress, then sure lets do it.

TLDR - We need more than 1 experienced player in the spine and we need to balance that experience with bringing through youth in a staggered approach.

Mate apart from 2018 which was an aberration we’ve been in the wilderness since 2011. I’d rather have spent that money on the forward pack to give Amone & Sullivan something to play behind.

I’d rather invest in the future with the hope of better days rather than more of the same with Hunt. All credit to Ben he’s got his future secured but not so much for us, if Hunt was going to lead us to the finals it would have happened by now, i certainly don’t see it happening at 34 or 35.

 

[Maddragon99]

The 27 no-shows at Dragons presentation night raise more concerns over Griffin’s reign

Only three of the top 30 NRL players turning up to Tuesday night’s club presentation will do nothing to tone down the narrative that St George Illawarra is an unhappy camp.

amp.smh.com.au

Read this for a honest appraisal of the situation at the club. I’m very concerned, I think extending Hunt is going to be a disaster…

 

[True_Believer]

The old chestnut though: how do you get experience if you never get a crack at the role?

Parko has highlighted it perfectly. And if you re-read my post, I mention staggering their experience. As it is, a number of young players were afforded heaps of game time this year. Amone, Feagai, Ramsay, Burns got some more game time, Hunt got a few games and Molo got ample time. Sullivan and Sloan got some games as well.

The reality is, you can't have a team full of youth. Especially ones that have been out of the game for the past 2 years. Most notably Newcastle tried that a few years back. They were at the bottom of the table for a couple of years while this happened and they still haven't fully recovered. And where are those players now? They weren't managed well and didn't have the experience in the team to offset the inexperience.

I've already stated it, but Cleary and Lui were staggered over a few years. From memory Cleary had been in the side for 3 years before Lui joined him on a more permanent basis.

Again, I've already pointed this out, but none of the top 8 teams have a spine with more than 1 rookie in them. At a minimum, they all had at least 1 experienced half.

 

[True_Believer]

Mate apart from 2018 which was an aberration we’ve been in the wilderness since 2011. I’d rather have spent that money on the forward pack to give Amone & Sullivan something to play behind.

I’d rather invest in the future with the hope of better days rather than more of the same with Hunt. All credit to Ben he’s got his future secured but not so much for us, if Hunt was going to lead us to the finals it would have happened by now, i certainly don’t see it happening at 34 or 35.

You are right. We have been in the wilderness since 2010. I feel like I'm repeating myself constantly, but nothing was done about this until Webb came on board. In his first year the club moved on Mary. We've now secured a CoE and as Webb has indicated in interviews, the focus is on pathways and bringing through the juniors.

But this isn't going to happen in one or two years, it's going to take time. And forcing it is as good as going backwards. It means getting the coaching ranks right from the bottom all the way to the top as well as ensuring we have the right recruitment happening for those positions we need them in.

And you can't expect one player to lead us to the finals. It's a team effort. To be fair he's outperformed every other player in the team by a country mile. He couldn't have done much more. If you haven't got the team around you, you'll never get the team over line no matter how good you are. Ponga is a million dollar player, why didn't he get Newcastle to the finals? Reynolds is a quality player that had the Broncos firing mid year but didn't pull them through to the finals. Are both of those teams going to dump these players because they didn't get them over the line? Nope. They are quality players. But they need the rest of the team to pull their weight as well. The expectation should never be placed on a single player.

 

[possm]

If your Sullivan and your sitting on your couch tonite thinking of your future he’d be thinking .,
Hunt at 7 for next 3 years
Liddle at 9 for at least next 12 mnths
I won’t be a 14 so at best I’m a back up half and potentially a back up 9.. my coach is Hook and learning f**k all !

If I go to the Bulldogs I’m possibly the starting 7 w Kyle Flanagan as my competition…I’m coached by Ciraldo and my 5/8 is Burton ….hmmm let me think …
f**k it Bulldogs here I come!

If I was Hunt, I'd say to myself:
All I need to do is kill it in reserve-grade for the first month or so and I will win the 7 spot; Hunt to 9.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

If I was Hunt, I'd say to myself:
All I need to do is kill it in reserve-grade for the first month or so and I will win the 7 spot; Hunt to 9.

So you think Hunt will start off 23 in reserve grade? I'm guessing you meant Sullivan??

 

[SnowDragon]

Parko has highlighted it perfectly. And if you re-read my post, I mention staggering their experience. As it is, a number of young players were afforded heaps of game time this year. Amone, Feagai, Ramsay, Burns got some more game time, Hunt got a few games and Molo got ample time. Sullivan and Sloan got some games as well.

The reality is, you can't have a team full of youth. Especially ones that have been out of the game for the past 2 years. Most notably Newcastle tried that a few years back. They were at the bottom of the table for a couple of years while this happened and they still haven't fully recovered. And where are those players now? They weren't managed well and didn't have the experience in the team to offset the inexperience.

I've already stated it, but Cleary and Lui were staggered over a few years. From memory Cleary had been in the side for 3 years before Lui joined him on a more permanent basis.

Again, I've already pointed this out, but none of the top 8 teams have a spine with more than 1 rookie in them. At a minimum, they all had at least 1 experienced half.

i think I understand your point about 3 rookie’s in the spine. It a fair point (if I indeed follow it) but not one I subscribe to given our team atm, and the team we can develop in coming years.

my counter to your 3 rookie point is that if Hunt, Amone and Ramsey are there anyway, it’s the 4th position we are discussing. The only real experience hooker (assuming Hunt is a half) is macca. do I understand you mean he needs to be there? Or is Liddle experienced enough in your opinion?

personally, and based on this year, I would prefer a 3rd youth player rather than macca. And next year we have more experience in the youth players than this year. if we had recruited another hooker of experience who is faster, and can draw defenders rather than the obvious pass each time, then I may change my opinion. are you suggesting Liddle is the solution to this point. At this stage he is unproven and I am not convinced, hence I make my comments accordingly.

this takes me to the last point. Yes, I’d prefer to risk languishing next year to build a team, to give experience etc. than I would to meander in 9-14th position, and have our next gen players move on to our rivals.

hope that explains my pov.

oh, additional point. Your comment on staggering is ok. But if your affecting the advancement of some players, you need to get buy in for it to work. 2 requests for release indicate that’s not happening.

 

[BLM01]

If I was Hunt, I'd say to myself:
All I need to do is kill it in reserve-grade for the first month or so and I will win the 7 spot; Hunt to 9.

Huh?