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Difference for NZ in winning union and league World Cups

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,829
Is that the only one you got lol,union lovers never say shit,its one eye league players that always talk shit about union,most union fans I know have no interest in debating the two codes,or care about league,there better left alone.
Are you serious? Union fans always attempt to put shit on League. Just look at the Union-loving spankers in the Fight Club on this very site, or some of the ridiculous dribble on the Roar.
Brad thron is a beast in both codes,with respect in both,but once he made it in the all blacks most one eye league fans rubbish him as a league player to justify there point of view of league players being better,but facts say other wise,after 4 years in union at the age of 30 he walked back into the nrl without missing a beat and made origin,union fans respect him for what he is regardless that he come from league,he had good morals/work ethic and was a good influence on the younger players.He did the black jersey proud don't give to shits if he came from netball soccer or cricket
No one rubbished him when he returned to League. He was a great League player, dominated in Union, was a great League player when he returned, then dominated again in Union when he went back and won everything there is to win.

By the way, your English is terrible- I think you need to go back to private school. ;-)
 

ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
That's not cause and effect dopey. As i said, you're citing logical fallacy.

You're trying to enter a battle of wits, yet you're unarmed.

I agree these centres have carried NZ to the final, because of the lack of global spread of RL.

However, these same NZ RL centres, if the Kiwis were to enter as a seperate RU team at the world cup, would also carry them to the semi finals.

They are a better centre partnership than what every team bar NZ and South Africa have. Rob Horne and AAC? There are people who Parra stick in the wenty team better than the number 4 side in the world.

FACT: SBW was a better centre than Nonu in 2012.

FACT: SKD, Matai, Goodwin, Inu, et. al are better centres at RL than SBW



No they're not, utter flight of fancy. gear is a hack, Ranger is a hack, they are both about Phil Howlett's capability... the better of the Howlett brothers.



I have

Where do Crockett, Hore, Faumuina, Romano or Whitelock, even play? They aren't even in the propr condition to stay on their feet after a set of 6 in defence. Hell, Crocket and Fauminia are REALLY dumb, they'd be too stupid to even figure out how to play the ball.

Luatua,maybe, McCaw is too soft to do a hit up and I'd say Read is also too soft to last the game doing hit ups. They are known for piling in a static ruck.. basically what they can accomplish is being 3rd man in a tackle.



Did you know some of us know he's not... lol... and you've just been sprung spitting bullshit... lol.

Remember battle of wits.. unarmed.. that's you.



more lulz.. no he isn't



The game is more open than RU. There is nothing diverse about collpasing scrums and kicking penalties every game, and that's 95% of all RU time in play.



It offers being able to go home to friends and family either the same night, or the night after.

Play shitty 15 or whatever, flying from desolate shithole, to desolate shithole like Johannesburg, to Dunedin, looking for a crowd, playing in 3/4 empty stadiums, locked in hotel rooms and playing for a tiny pay cheque to fulfil a TV deal of 3 tiny markets, that combined is less than 1/3 of the NRL.



Erhh, are you truly that dense? Not only are you on a RL board, you're on the Rugby League WORLD CUP forum, in the midst of the most successful RL world cup of all time.

if this is the state of our international game in 2013, it's actually looking quite healthy.



FACT: The kangaroos would beat the Wallabies, and claim every spot within 12 months of RU training

Everyone rah-rah wanks lyrical about Folau, the entire kangaroos backline position would have a player SUPERIOR to Folau.

I take it you haven't watched a rugby game as of late,if you think them players wouldn't last a set of six your a moroon,most of what you posted is bullshit that I care not to point out the fact that you think the state of the international game is healthy shows how deluded you are and anit gona waste no more time,two decent contest and 50 point score line in a semi final is not a healthly world cup,which equals an unheathly international game,half the players didn't know there team national athem.


Kiwis prop Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, arguably the best front-rower in the world, has revealed he could return to rugby union when his contract runs out with the Roosters in two years' time.
The 15-man code was Waerea-Hargreaves' first love and, despite his success in the NRL and at international level for New Zealand, he remains passionate about the sport.
Waerea-Hargreaves emigrated to Australia from Rotorua 10 years ago and was such a rising star he played for Australia at the 2007 under-19s World Championship alongside Peter Betham, Pat McCabe, Ben McCalman, Rob Simmons and James Hanson, who all went on to play for the Wallabies.
He was on the books at the Waratahs, but foolishly the Sydney-based Super Rugby side only offered him a two-year part-time contract and he opted instead to link up with the Manly Sea Eagles in the NRL.
And while he has made every post a winner in league, he says he wouldn't rule out a return to rugby in the coming years.
"I always thought I was a pretty good rugby player back in the day," Waerea-Hargreaves said.
"As you get older you keep your options open and all of that sort of stuff.
"I guess you play every year as it comes, I've still got a couple more years on my contract as it is and you never know what happens after it."
Sonny Bill Williams has successfully switched between both codes, Benji Marshall is about to try his hand at rugby and rising Kiwis star Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, an Auckland schoolboy rugby star, has spoken about returning to his union roots at some stage. Players these days no longer feel there should be a rivalry between the codes and openly admit to enjoying watching and playing both.
"I watch every All Blacks game and I watch the Wallabies," Waerea-Hargreaves said. "I've played a lot of rugby back in the day with a lot of the current Wallabies.
"I still love the game and enjoy watching it." The Waratahs made an attempt to lure Waerea-Hargreaves back to rugby in 2012, but the sticking point was believed to have been over how much the Australian Rugby Union was willing to top up his contract.
However, if he did make the move back to rugby, it would be a black jersey, rather than a green and gold one, in his sights.
"I am currently sitting in a black jumper," he said in the Kiwis' hotel in London. "So I can't be talking about playing for the Wallabies. I believe I bleed black."

The best prop in the game is a ex RU player go figure,
 

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,528
The Wallabies may have been pretty poor for a few years but if you think losing to them is akin to losing to Samoa in football then your knowledge of union is already clearly pretty poor.

Scotland but particularly Ireland are indeed strong rugby nations, as you yourself claim. The AB's never having lost to them is a pretty freakish record as far as the sport is concerned, that's all there is to it really. Using such an exception to the general rule regarding union competition in an attempt to denigrate the competitiveness of union globally is just clutching at straws.
 

WireMan

Bench
Messages
4,479
Kiwis prop Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, arguably the best front-rower in the world

I thought he was the 4th best prop for the kiwis in the semi and worse than every English prop, so hardly the best in the world.

He would do a job in the back row. Not at international level, a good super 15 player though.
 
Messages
2,364
Yeah... Blah, Blah, Blah... Whatever...

Then in the real world...

All Blacks > Kangaroos

All Blacks > Queensland

All Blacks > You

Only in the eyes of Kiwis.

In the real world everybody else knows that New Zealand have no credible competition in rugby. England, SA, France, Aus? Farmers and the pseudo-athletic upperclasses.

The Kangaroos actually have to compete against real competition. New Zealand could forget about winning anything if other rugby playing countries were able to pick athletes and not inbred toffs.
 
Messages
2,364
:lol:

I think the Kangaroos need to actually be the best in RL before they start looking at other sports...

But I like your ambition... If they manage to win the RLWC... They can take that step up to the pie eating world...

As opposed to the All Blacks, who only managed to stop choking when the IRB gifted you the world cup to help you over the line?

The All Blacks have only won when it mattered once in the last 54 centuries.
 
Messages
2,364
You Union lovers have been saying the exact same thing since forever, that League players would never make it in such-and-such a position, or that Richie-Rich McHyphenated name is far and away better than any League player that could play in his position, yet time and time again, blokes like this switch over and dominate in Union:

672915-brad-thorn.jpg

The thing is reanimate as much as these idiots talk up their international game they really don't think a lot of it.

For example, when a league player converts and gets x amount of caps for some country it's usually considered by rugby fans to be an example of that player being a failure.

International union is so easy and so shit that league players getting capped in rugby doesn't matter. Hence a guy like Sailor can get 304 caps for Australia and that's a great example of a "failed" convert :lol:
 
Messages
2,364
There's a reason that only outside backs seem to be able to make the switch seamlessly and that modern Union has always targetted the Tuqiri's and Sailor's rather than the Webcke's and Fifita's. There's entirely different set of skills required for Union/League forwards and to a lesser extent playmakers, Brad Thorn is the exception rather than the rule.

Not really. There are lots of forwards you can name who've made the switch. We've just had a fairly long debate about SBW. Throw in Tomkins to the list. Willie Mason (thought the game was shit and left). Etc.

Which forwards haven't made the switch seamlessly? At the very least they hold their own at the highest domestic level.


The best prop in the game is a ex RU player go figure,

The best prop in the world was identified by rugby league as a talent and nurtured properly. Go figure.

Love that rugby fans make negatives and embarrassing aspects of their backwards sport a supposed strength.

You might as well say "hahahaha in rugby we can't identify talent but in rugby league you can!" :lol::lol:

League will continue taking supposedly ordinary talents and making them better than your up and coming superstars.
 
Messages
2,364
I thought he was the 4th best prop for the kiwis in the semi and worse than every English prop, so hardly the best in the world.

He would do a job in the back row. Not at international level, a good super 15 player though.

Is this the same JWH that the rugby union media were hailing as unions answer to SBW way back when?

He'll be an All Black no problem. Just has to wait until he's about 35
 
Messages
2,364
The Wallabies may have been pretty poor for a few years but if you think losing to them is akin to losing to Samoa in football then your knowledge of union is already clearly pretty poor.

Scotland but particularly Ireland are indeed strong rugby nations, as you yourself claim. The AB's never having lost to them is a pretty freakish record as far as the sport is concerned, that's all there is to it really. Using such an exception to the general rule regarding union competition in an attempt to denigrate the competitiveness of union globally is just clutching at straws.

:lol:

That just shows how much of a myth international rugby is. Who in Scotland and Ireland plays rugby? A handful of farmers in select regions and a minority of non-athletic private school types.

There's nothing freakish about not losing to them. It's no different to the Kangaroos not losing to Wales in rugby league. The only difference is because of the nature of rugby yawnion shit teams like Ireland and Scotland can look better than they are by playing a conservative game and kicking penalties all night.

Only 112 people in Scotland play rugby :?
 

Tone83

Juniors
Messages
1,225
New Zealand could forget about winning anything if other rugby playing countries were able to pick athletes and not inbred toffs.
Bang on the money there.
I'm an inbred toff myself and went to a prestigious rugby school. I'm so glad we never had to play public school kids in rugby, we would have been massacred. Thankfully they were busy playing league. In NZ everyone plays rugby, toffs and street urchins a like.

Still, australian street urchins are better than NZ street urchins, and the kangaroos display this by being way better than the all blacks.
 

Tone83

Juniors
Messages
1,225
The only way you'd have a point is if you can name average NRL first graders who constantly go to union and carve up. As it stands I can't think of any.
We already mentioned Brad Thorn, and sorry but he's shit. Yes he did play origin and internationals in league but it was always like "why the f did they pick thorn?", and they stopped picking him before he left league. By the time he went to union to immediately waltz into the allblacks, he was washed up and finished in league. There was no way he was gonna make another rep side, he was barely hanging onto his club spot.

And yet it was just so easy for him to go straight into being a fixture for the allblacks, what? Isn't this supposed to be some larger than life epic perfect team? They really had no one better than an old dude who used to be ok in the nrl? Does not bode well for your code, I'm sorry.

Average first graders who go to union and carve up? Um, hello, Ryan Cross? Ryan "can't make a rep side in the nrl, straight to the wallabies" cross? Berrick "fighting to get a spot on the broncos, straight to the wallabies" Barnes?
 

WireMan

Bench
Messages
4,479
We already mentioned Brad Thorn, and sorry but he's shit. Yes he did play origin and internationals in league but it was always like "why the f did they pick thorn?", and they stopped picking him before he left league. By the time he went to union to immediately waltz into the allblacks, he was washed up and finished in league. There was no way he was gonna make another rep side, he was barely hanging onto his club spot.

And yet it was just so easy for him to go straight into being a fixture for the allblacks, what? Isn't this supposed to be some larger than life epic perfect team? They really had no one better than an old dude who used to be ok in the nrl? Does not bode well for your code, I'm sorry.

Average first graders who go to union and carve up? Um, hello, Ryan Cross? Ryan "can't make a rep side in the nrl, straight to the wallabies" cross? Berrick "fighting to get a spot on the broncos, straight to the wallabies" Barnes?

Andy Farrell.

After his knees went and he had to play prop in league as he didn't have the mobility to play 13 he went straight into the inside centre position for England...
 

LJC

Juniors
Messages
584
We already mentioned Brad Thorn, and sorry but he's shit. Yes he did play origin and internationals in league but it was always like "why the f did they pick thorn?", and they stopped picking him before he left league. By the time he went to union to immediately waltz into the allblacks, he was washed up and finished in league. There was no way he was gonna make another rep side, he was barely hanging onto his club spot.

And yet it was just so easy for him to go straight into being a fixture for the allblacks, what? Isn't this supposed to be some larger than life epic perfect team? They really had no one better than an old dude who used to be ok in the nrl? Does not bode well for your code, I'm sorry.

Average first graders who go to union and carve up? Um, hello, Ryan Cross? Ryan "can't make a rep side in the nrl, straight to the wallabies" cross? Berrick "fighting to get a spot on the broncos, straight to the wallabies" Barnes?

Glad you brought those examples up.

People are unaware that about half of the "Wallabies/Wan-to-bies" could not get out of Reserve grade in the NRL! Yes the 2nds teams in the NRL. A point never mentioned within the media at large! Also note that its the ex RL players that are achieving all the records (Toquiri ,Falau, Rogers, and more) Surely the union types are starting to get the picture regardless of their flawed indoctrination into an outdated code of rugby!
 

Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
Glad you brought those examples up.

People are unaware that about half of the "Wallabies/Wan-to-bies" could not get out of Reserve grade in the NRL! Yes the 2nds teams in the NRL. A point never mentioned within the media at large! Also note that its the ex RL players that are achieving all the records (Toquiri ,Falau, Rogers, and more) Surely the union types are starting to get the picture regardless of their flawed indoctrination into an outdated code of rugby!


Half the current Wallabies are former rugby league players? Which ones?

I just had a look at the ARU's website. If you click on "Wallabies", 35 player profiles are presented. Israel Folau, of course is one former NRL player. Joe Tomane is the other. Tomane did play rugby union at Nudgee College incidentally, and he also played a fair number of first grade NRL games. In his first season, he scored 3 tries in a (first grade) game for the Storm against the Broncos. So he was no slouch, was he?

Some of the other 33 players might have played rugby league in their junior days, but most of them are products of rugby union schools.

Correct me if I am wrong, please.
 

Wilson1

Juniors
Messages
497
If RU did not have the establishment support it enjoys courtesy of many factors like nation wide playing of the sport in the school system and favourable media coverage then it would be a different story!

I believe the islander element of NZ are more naturally suited to the greater physicality of RL as with the Pacific island nations as a whole. RL allows for more running with the ball and tackles. If you do the math these statements ring true when comparing either sport.

RL is a far democratic form of rugby but it hasn't got the establishment support that RU enjoys. Its not fair but its reality! One day this may change. Let's hope so!

LOL. How can a sport be democratic? At least New Zealand isn't like Britain were social classes or religions determine which sport or team you should follow?

Many rugby league fans believe their sport is less popular than rugby union because rugby union has the support of the establishment. This supposes that people are stupid. That they can be brainwashed into thinking they like rugby union but really without the evil private school types they would like league. Get off of it! It has not occurred to many people that union is more popular because more people like union. It is fine if you like league but don't expect others to share your view point.

You also don't think league in Australia benefits from being a sport of the establishment? What about soccer in Brazil? Rugby really gets a fair look into the USA as well. The media reports what people want to hear and in New Zealand that is rugby union; in the eastern coast of Australia it's rugby league.
 

TheDalek079

Bench
Messages
4,432
To all the knockers in the media who drool over the union WC yet bag the league world cup here's a few facts:

For NZ to win the league WC they claim they have to win two tough games yet in the union WC the All Blacks only have to win 3 hard games (this could be argued down to 2 quite easily) and are treated as gods.

Here's the facts of the All Blacks at the union WC;

In pool matches the All Blacks have played 24 games (1987-2011) winning EVERY one at an average 63-12 per game.

Of the 24, 19 times they have scored over 40pts including 3 times breaking 100.

In the QF, SF and Final the All Blacks have won 11 of 16 only ever losing to Australia, Sth Africa and France.

So the media could easily paint a NEGATIVE picture as they do in league of why bother playing the pool games it's a waste of time put the All Blacks straight into the QF's.

Even then if they were to play the teams they have played (1987-2011) in the QF's or SF's such as:

Scotland

Wales

Argentina

Canada

or Ireland

between them these teams have managed only 3 wins in 108 matches and these were by Wales in 1905, 1935 and 1953.

So the media could easily argue why bother??? Put the All Blacks in from the semi finals.


That just highlights the dominance of the All Blacks. Every other team has lost pool games. If we divided RL teams evenly into four pools (instead of placing the top teams in a special super pool), do you think the Poms, NZ or Australia would ever lose a pool match like the Poms, Springboks and Wallabies have in RWC?
 

ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
LOL. How can a sport be democratic? At least New Zealand isn't like Britain were social classes or religions determine which sport or team you should follow?

Many rugby league fans believe their sport is less popular than rugby union because rugby union has the support of the establishment. This supposes that people are stupid. That they can be brainwashed into thinking they like rugby union but really without the evil private school types they would like league. Get off of it! It has not occurred to many people that union is more popular because more people like union. It is fine if you like league but don't expect others to share your view point.

You also don't think league in Australia benefits from being a sport of the establishment? What about soccer in Brazil? Rugby really gets a fair look into the USA as well. The media reports what people want to hear and in New Zealand that is rugby union; in the eastern coast of Australia it's rugby league.

Someone with some sense,Englands last 3 test matchs at home,2 of which were played durning the rlwc were all sell outs..80,000 plus,what did the kiwis vs England sell??60,000..for a semi of a world cup.shit more people turned up to the last 3 English test matches than the whole of the 2008 rlwc which was held in the only country that takes the game seriously :sarcasm:.
the simple reasons is more people agree that rugby union is the better form of the game,this rlwc cup proved it once again,while 10,000 were turning up to rlwc games(and that's being generous),union games were being played in front of sell out crowds of up to 80,000 through out Europe.
The Usa team has being getting sellout crowds this year too.
league fans can spin bullshit which way they want about the global reach of union but numbers don't lie.
End of the day for international league to grow the nrl will have to suffer,you cant have a comp thats played for more than half a year and have an international season it just wont work,and for me I'd rather have the nrl,if one thing ive learned from this world cup is thank f##k for the nrl.Because 9 times out of ten international league or even super league comp just anit worth watching
 

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,528
We already mentioned Brad Thorn, and sorry but he's shit. Yes he did play origin and internationals in league but it was always like "why the f did they pick thorn?", and they stopped picking him before he left league. By the time he went to union to immediately waltz into the allblacks, he was washed up and finished in league. There was no way he was gonna make another rep side, he was barely hanging onto his club spot.

And yet it was just so easy for him to go straight into being a fixture for the allblacks, what? Isn't this supposed to be some larger than life epic perfect team? They really had no one better than an old dude who used to be ok in the nrl? Does not bode well for your code, I'm sorry.

Average first graders who go to union and carve up? Um, hello, Ryan Cross? Ryan "can't make a rep side in the nrl, straight to the wallabies" cross? Berrick "fighting to get a spot on the broncos, straight to the wallabies" Barnes?

You obviously just don't rate Thorne, that's pretty clear. If you didn't think he should have made those rep teams fine but it doesn't really help us much for a cross-code comparison.

I'll give you Cross, I forgot about him. Definitely did better in union than league. Barnes was only just coming into league when union poached him so he doesn't really count.

So after all that the only concrete example you can come up with that wasn't just speculation is Ryan Cross. Not exactly damning evidence.
 
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