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Divided rugby league fell 25 years ago – but united has it conquered? by Steve Mascord.

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,609
Give it a decade, and I can see Broncos v Dolphins having a similar intensity as Roosters v Souths. Cowboys v Broncos was a friendly rivalry between cousins for many years and it has picked up some spice in the last decade- but there's still the distance separating them.

Dolphins and Broncos are fighting for hearts and minds of the same city. Like Roosters v Souths, supporters of both will live in the same neighbourhoods and work in the same places to a greater degree than the Cowboys.

Plus more Qld teams strengthens the NRL in Qld while also weakening the advantage Qld have always had in Origin over NSW, so I'm all for it!

Cowboys v Broncos has never been friendly.

It was more one sided, as in NQ fans treated it like our game of the season, but Broncos fans were largely indifferent or even snobby about it.

Given that it took 10 seasons (the 2004 SF) for the Cowboys to finally notch a win against our southern rivals, I can see why.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,123
Give it a decade, and I can see Broncos v Dolphins having a similar intensity as Roosters v Souths. Cowboys v Broncos was a friendly rivalry between cousins for many years and it has picked up some spice in the last decade- but there's still the distance separating them.

Dolphins and Broncos are fighting for hearts and minds of the same city. Like Roosters v Souths, supporters of both will live in the same neighbourhoods and work in the same places to a greater degree than the Cowboys.

Plus more Qld teams strengthens the NRL in Qld while also weakening the advantage Qld have always had in Origin over NSW, so I'm all for it!

Roosters & South's fans not the same. One top end of town the others are not
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
7,123
Last years GF TV ratings, like the the AFL, that people won't watch a one sided match and that FTA TV ratings are in decline.

Where did the NRL GF rank in terms of most watched TV shows for 2022, would be a better stat.

This. Only thing you need to look at.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,297
Both were well down but our ratings picked up once 9 now and other streaming were added. Both were disappointing though and demonstrate the decline in fta viewing overall. A daily glance at the tv ratings sites demonstrate that 1,000,000 fta viewers for prime time shows in the metro space, once the rule, are now the exception. There is no coming back.

Just an out of date metric really, Thankifully networks and organisations like the NRL have other data they can use
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,671
Give it a decade, and I can see Broncos v Dolphins having a similar intensity as Roosters v Souths. Cowboys v Broncos was a friendly rivalry between cousins for many years and it has picked up some spice in the last decade- but there's still the distance separating them.

Dolphins and Broncos are fighting for hearts and minds of the same city. Like Roosters v Souths, supporters of both will live in the same neighbourhoods and work in the same places to a greater degree than the Cowboys.

Plus more Qld teams strengthens the NRL in Qld while also weakening the advantage Qld have always had in Origin over NSW, so I'm all for it!
NQ vs Brisbane a "friendly rivalry"???

You're taking the absolute piss.
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
Last years GF TV ratings, like the the AFL, that people won't watch a one sided match and that FTA TV ratings are in decline.

Where did the NRL GF rank in terms of most watched TV shows for 2022, would be a better stat.
The nrl has 4 games in the top 10 programs. The tennis with Ash Barty had the top 2. Fta ratings overall were significantly down. The trend continues.
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
The 2022 AFL GF was there lowest rated in history. Seems to be a trend here

Yeah it was a bit of a cripple fight on fta all year across the board. There are too many streaming options for the games themselves and alternative programming to compare the tv ratings to the past any more. Wookie knows this more than anybody.
 

Reflector

Bench
Messages
2,537
NQ vs Brisbane a "friendly rivalry"???

You're taking the absolute piss.
Canard summed it up well. No doubt the Cowboys fans (mostly) saw it as THE fixture from the very start, but the impression I got from the Broncos contingent is they didn't really feel anything close to the same "edge" about the Cowboys until the mid/ late 2000's at least.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,671
Canard summed it up well. No doubt the Cowboys fans (mostly) saw it as THE fixture from the very start, but the impression I got from the Broncos contingent is they didn't really feel anything close to the same "edge" about the Cowboys until the mid/ late 2000's at least.
Yeah i can 100% acknowledge this but since 2004 when we beat them for the first time(and in the finals) IMO the line was then drawn in the sand. Ever since these games are normally 2 of the best club games each season and whilst the players don't go out there to knock each others heads off like the South/Roosters games, it's played ferociously and tbh i think the players don't want to let their team down by giving away a penalty or getting sent off.

You've only got to look at the attendance of either fixture as well, it's pretty much the best attended game at either teams stadium.

To say it's picked up spice only in the last decade is false mate, it's been the biggest club ticket in either town for nearly 20 years.
 
Last edited:

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,248
Yeah it was a bit of a cripple fight on fta all year across the board. There are too many streaming options for the games themselves and alternative programming to compare the tv ratings to the past any more. Wookie knows this more than anybody.

oh why bring me back to this. I WAS OUT MAN

I didnt run direct comparisons to previous years this season in part due to this, and the previous two years being impacted by COVID.
 

The_Wookie

Bench
Messages
3,248
If the ARLC didn't increase the grant to cover the salary cap with an additional $5m to bail out weak clubs then we wouldn't have nine teams in Sydney.

This again?

The clubs are literally entitled to distributions from the League. The scope of these distributions is entirely within the rights of the clubs and the league to negotiate. As it damn well should be. The league exists to support its clubs, not the other way around.

The least profitable clubs are from Sydney. All nine Sydney clubs draw little money from ticketing, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality. The market has spoken and said there's no demand for nine clubs in Sydney.

As long as their income streams are legal and above board who gives a damn where their income comes from. I really do wonder about the character of rugby league supporters who constantly advocate for the removal of teams from the league. Particularly with the game on something of an upswing at the moment.

I provided a detailed summary of the revenue clubs make from football operations in this thread.

just as well they have other incomes then. Smart to diversify even.

Our game had a golden opportunity to kick out financially unviable Sydney clubs in 1998.

Well sure, except for that pesky case the league lost and had to readmit at least one club they turfed for "financial" reasons.

Under the terms of their f**king ANNUAL license renewals, they could have been removed at the end of any season in the 90s and early 2000s.

It chose to keep them and got rid of the profitable Chargers and well supported expansion teams in Adelaide and Perth. By doing that they condemned rugby league to being a minority sport in two-fifths of the country's metropolitan markets and gave fumbleball a huge leg up in SEQ.

Did it really give the AFL a huge leg up though? And having a rugby league team in Adelaide and Perth wasnt magically going to change the status of rugby league from minor to major status, any more than its worked for the AFL on the Gold Coast or in Western Sydney.
 
Messages
14,822
This again?

The clubs are literally entitled to distributions from the League. The scope of these distributions is entirely within the rights of the clubs and the league to negotiate. As it damn well should be. The league exists to support its clubs, not the other way around.

That's your opinion and it makes zero sense.

I care about the long-term survival of rugby league.

Only a simpleton would think the game benefits from having nine small clubs in Sydney while the rest of the country is under-represented. The fact you keep advocating for the game to squander its small fortune on keeping the game concentrated around Sydney is insane because it limits the amount of money we can generate from sponsorship and broadcast rights.

How many sports leagues in this country have no presence in Adelaide and Perth?

Here's a list of leagues that have teams in every metropolitan market.

  • National Basketball League
  • A-League
  • W-League
  • Australian Fumbleball League
  • AFLW
  • Big Bash League
  • Women's Big Bash League
  • Sheffield Shield
  • Women's National Cricket League
  • Super Netball
  • Hockey One
  • Australian Baseball League

Other leagues have a greater footprint in the metropolitan markets than our game. They include the Australian Ice Hockey League, Super Rugby, WNBL.

As long as their income streams are legal and above board who gives a damn where their income comes from. I really do wonder about the character of rugby league supporters who constantly advocate for the removal of teams from the league. Particularly with the game on something of an upswing at the moment.

It's been explained to you a gazillion times already that Sydney cannot support nine clubs without assistance from the governing body. More importantly, propping up financially unviable teams in Sydney does nothing to grow the game in new markets. We've reached the maximum level of fan support in Sydney and it's not enough to support nine clubs. All of this crap about "it's the clubs' rights to hoard all the money and prevent expansion, blah blah blah" doesn't change any of this. I'd argue that propping up nine small clubs in Sydney isn't doing anything for the game at the grassroots level in the game's heartland when our income stream is well below AwFuL, who've been pumping millions into Queensland and NSW for decades and grown their participation base. They've actually made great strides in Queensland.

just as well they have other incomes then. Smart to diversify even.
You know the bulk of their revenue comes from the annual grant and gaming machine earnings.

How do you explain V'landys saying "the business case must stack up" for the Dolphins to get a licence, yet there's several Sydney clubs who don't have half of what Redcliffe offer?

It's a massive double standard.

Why do you believe there should be one rule for Sydney and another rule for everyone else?

Well sure, except for that pesky case the league lost and had to readmit at least one club they turfed for "financial" reasons.

You got that one wrong.

News Ltd, then half-owners of the NRL, challenged the Federal Court decision to reinstate the Rabbitohs, subsequently won the High Court verdict but then declined to exercise their newly established power to boot them from the league once more.


Under the terms of their f**king ANNUAL license renewals, they could have been removed at the end of any season in the 90s and early 2000s.

So?

Did it really give the AFL a huge leg up though? And having a rugby league team in Adelaide and Perth wasnt magically going to change the status of rugby league from minor to major status, any more than its worked for the AFL on the Gold Coast or in Western Sydney.

Participation for fumbleball in NSW and Queensland has grown in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years. It draws bloody good crowds in Brisbane and Sydney. The Lions and Swans are financially stronger than every Sydney NRL club. I'd call that a win for AwFuL.

Now show me where it was stated rugby league would become a "major sport" in Adelaide in Perth?

I've never said anything of the sort.

I've said our game can carve out a strong niche if it invests enough time and resources into developing the game in new markets. The Melbourne Storm have proven that it's possible, despite numerous rugby league fans from Sydney calling for their removal over the years.

Now tell me why you believe rugby league fans outside of NSW are obligated to put the survival of nine small Sydney clubs ahead of expansion?

You know very well that the NSWRL f**ked over the Broncos, Cowboys, Crushers, Warriors and Reds. At one stage you cited an article that pointed out the double standards Quayle and Arthurson used against the Broncos to rob them of $500k. I've shown you a transcript of Neil Cadigan's book which details the harsh requirements heaped upon the expansion clubs in 1995. These requirements bankrupted the clubs and forced them to sign with Super League just to survive. I've never heard you condemn the league for its favouritism of NSWRL clubs.

Leagues across the country have been raped and pillaged to death by NSWRL clubs. Test football has taken a backseat because the NRL holds all the power, with the bulk of it being tied up in Sydney due to it holding most of the clubs. So not only has the traditional NSWRL clubs killed other competitions and limited the game's growth in new markets, they've turned the once thriving Test arena into a shell of what it once was. There was a time in the past when the biggest honour was playing for Australia on an Ashes Tour in front of massive crowds. Those days are gone because the clubs don't want to risk their players getting injured. It's hurt the game severely in England and prevented New Zealand Rugby League from earning much needed revenue from Test series. The game in New Zealand is in dire straights right now. The ARLC has done nothing to help it.

I'd like to see more teams in Queensland and New Zealand. I'd also like to see teams in Adelaide and Perth. That cannot happen while we've got nine small teams in Sydney. The fact that more than half of the teams from the most brutal collision sport are from one market gives them a massive advantage over the rest of the league, as they don't have to travel as far and are thus given more time to recover. Players take this into consideration when deciding which club to join.
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
This again?

The clubs are literally entitled to distributions from the League. The scope of these distributions is entirely within the rights of the clubs and the league to negotiate. As it damn well should be. The league exists to support its clubs, not the other way around.



As long as their income streams are legal and above board who gives a damn where their income comes from. I really do wonder about the character of rugby league supporters who constantly advocate for the removal of teams from the league. Particularly with the game on something of an upswing at the moment.



just as well they have other incomes then. Smart to diversify even.



Well sure, except for that pesky case the league lost and had to readmit at least one club they turfed for "financial" reasons.

Under the terms of their f**king ANNUAL license renewals, they could have been removed at the end of any season in the 90s and early 2000s.



Did it really give the AFL a huge leg up though? And having a rugby league team in Adelaide and Perth wasnt magically going to change the status of rugby league from minor to major status, any more than its worked for the AFL on the Gold Coast or in Western Sydney.
I respect you muchly. Do not respond logically to this peanut. He will rant like nobody has ever ranted before. He makes the whinging Pom look like happy Harry!
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
That's your opinion and it makes zero sense.

I care about the long-term survival of rugby league.

Only a simpleton would think the game benefits from having nine small clubs in Sydney while the rest of the country is under-represented. The fact you keep advocating for the game to squander its small fortune on keeping the game concentrated around Sydney is insane because it limits the amount of money we can generate from sponsorship and broadcast rights.

How many sports leagues in this country have no presence in Adelaide and Perth?

Here's a list of leagues that have teams in every metropolitan market.

  • National Basketball League
  • A-League
  • W-League
  • Australian Fumbleball League
  • AFLW
  • Big Bash League
  • Women's Big Bash League
  • Sheffield Shield
  • Women's National Cricket League
  • Super Netball
  • Hockey One
  • Australian Baseball League

Other leagues have a greater footprint in the metropolitan markets than our game. They include the Australian Ice Hockey League, Super Rugby, WNBL.



It's been explained to you a gazillion times already that Sydney cannot support nine clubs without assistance from the governing body. More importantly, propping up financially unviable teams in Sydney does nothing to grow the game in new markets. We've reached the maximum level of fan support in Sydney and it's not enough to support nine clubs. All of this crap about "it's the clubs' rights to hoard all the money and prevent expansion, blah blah blah" doesn't change any of this. I'd argue that propping up nine small clubs in Sydney isn't doing anything for the game at the grassroots level in the game's heartland when our income stream is well below AwFuL, who've been pumping millions into Queensland and NSW for decades and grown their participation base. They've actually made great strides in Queensland.


You know the bulk of their revenue comes from the annual grant and gaming machine earnings.

How do you explain V'landys saying "the business case must stack up" for the Dolphins to get a licence, yet there's several Sydney clubs who don't have half of what Redcliffe offer?

It's a massive double standard.

Why do you believe there should be one rule for Sydney and another rule for everyone else?



You got that one wrong.

News Ltd, then half-owners of the NRL, challenged the Federal Court decision to reinstate the Rabbitohs, subsequently won the High Court verdict but then declined to exercise their newly established power to boot them from the league once more.​



So?



Participation for fumbleball in NSW and Queensland has grown in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years. It draws bloody good crowds in Brisbane and Sydney. The Lions and Swans are financially stronger than every Sydney NRL club. I'd call that a win for AwFuL.

Now show me where it was stated rugby league would become a "major sport" in Adelaide in Perth?

I've never said anything of the sort.

I've said our game can carve out a strong niche if it invests enough time and resources into developing the game in new markets. The Melbourne Storm have proven that it's possible, despite numerous rugby league fans from Sydney calling for their removal over the years.

Now tell me why you believe rugby league fans outside of NSW are obligated to put the survival of nine small Sydney clubs ahead of expansion?

You know very well that the NSWRL f**ked over the Broncos, Cowboys, Crushers, Warriors and Reds. At one stage you cited an article that pointed out the double standards Quayle and Arthurson used against the Broncos to rob them of $500k. I've shown you a transcript of Neil Cadigan's book which details the harsh requirements heaped upon the expansion clubs in 1995. These requirements bankrupted the clubs and forced them to sign with Super League just to survive. I've never heard you condemn the league for its favouritism of NSWRL clubs.

Leagues across the country have been raped and pillaged to death by NSWRL clubs. Test football has taken a backseat because the NRL holds all the power, with the bulk of it being tied up in Sydney due to it holding most of the clubs. So not only has the traditional NSWRL clubs killed other competitions and limited the game's growth in new markets, they've turned the once thriving Test arena into a shell of what it once was. There was a time in the past when the biggest honour was playing for Australia on an Ashes Tour in front of massive crowds. Those days are gone because the clubs don't want to risk their players getting injured. It's hurt the game severely in England and prevented New Zealand Rugby League from earning much needed revenue from Test series. The game in New Zealand is in dire straights right now. The ARLC has done nothing to help it.

I'd like to see more teams in Queensland and New Zealand. I'd also like to see teams in Adelaide and Perth. That cannot happen while we've got nine small teams in Sydney. The fact that more than half of the teams from the most brutal collision sport are from one market gives them a massive advantage over the rest of the league, as they don't have to travel as far and are thus given more time to recover. Players take this into consideration when deciding which club to join.
I disagree.
 

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