News Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

[YoHadrian]

That post made me chuckle. It had everything.

 

[LittleWayne]

Phobia means fear, i don't fear gay guys. Just that i don't like seeing ppl put their hand in the back pocket of their partners whilst walking down the street, that goes for heterosexual ppl as well. Just don't think that gay guys should be allowed to adopt children or get married. IMO gay sex should NOT be illegal though. I'm NOT homophobic. I've had gay sex. I suppose I'm bisexual.

What about gay women? In your utopia can they adopt, marry, hold hands in public?

 

[LittleWayne]

I'm Welsh, well, us and the Jews, well, are, persecuted, helps us come from a different angle to most cultures. Hebrew and Welsh have some similarities apparently, I'm not surprised, I feel that Welsh and Jewish ppl are closer to God than any other cultures.

How are the welsh more persecuted than the Scottish and Irish?

With all the welsh people I’ve worked with and befriended I’ve never know any to be religious. Sure they like a choir.

 

[The Great Dane]

So are you saying you believe people should be free to say what they want with no legal, civil or societal consequence?

That's a massive over simplification.

There're always gray areas, so no people shouldn't be able to say whatever they want without consequences, for example incitement to violence, prolonged targeted harassment against an individual or group of individuals, credible threats against an individual or group, etc, should all be punishable.

However, baring those gray areas, anybody should be able to say any opinion that they like, however they wish to, and without fear of any form of reprisal from anybody.

 

[LittleWayne]

That's a massive over simplification.

There're always gray areas, so no people shouldn't be able to say whatever they want without consequences, for example incitement to violence, prolonged targeted harassment against an individual or group of individuals, credible threats against an individual or group, etc, should all be punishable.

However, baring those gray areas, anybody should be able to say any opinion that they like, however they wish to, and without fear of any form of reprisal from anybody.

incitement to violence, prolonged targeted harassment against an individual or group of individuals, credible threats against an individual or group, etc, should all be punishable.

Perfect

 

[Perth Red]

That's a massive over simplification.

There're always gray areas, so no people shouldn't be able to say whatever they want without consequences, for example incitement to violence, prolonged targeted harassment against an individual or group of individuals, credible threats against an individual or group, etc, should all be punishable.

However, baring those gray areas, anybody should be able to say any opinion that they like, however they wish to, and without fear of any form of reprisal from anybody.

Haha good luck with that! Never been that way in history of mankind, never will be that way.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

That's a massive over simplification.

There're always gray areas, so no people shouldn't be able to say whatever they want without consequences, for example incitement to violence, prolonged targeted harassment against an individual or group of individuals, credible threats against an individual or group, etc, should all be punishable.

However, baring those gray areas, anybody should be able to say any opinion that they like, however they wish to, and without fear of any form of reprisal from anybody.

How does that work?

Folau or anyone else can say what they wants but anyone who wishes to use their own freedom of speech to reply is censored?

 

[BM1979]

How does that work?

Folau or anyone else can say what they wants but anyone who wishes to use their own freedom of speech to reply is censored?

I don't know how you read his post in that way. It literally says " Anybody " should be able to say an opinion that they like.

It's obvious to me he is talking about punishment (reprisals) and not criticism.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

id welcome him back if he shut his f**king mouth

believe what you want israel but not everyone needs to hear about it

 

[BM1979]

id welcome him back if he shut his f**king mouth

believe what you want israel but not everyone needs to hear about it

Blame the media though , not him. It was a post on his personal Instagram account .

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Blame the media though , not him. It was a post on his personal Instagram account .

well he's a dumb f**k beyond belief if he thinks the media isn't watching his instagram

 

[t-ba]

Blame the media though , not him. It was a post on his personal Instagram account .

His 'personal' Instagram account he uses to advertise stuff?

Come now.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

I don't know how you read his post in that way. It literally says " Anybody " should be able to say an opinion that they like.

It's obvious to me he is talking about punishment (reprisals) and not criticism.

True true, read it too quickly and overlooked reprisal for response. My bad.

Still, it's not a stance I agree with regardless. I don't think that sort of idealism can exist in the modern world (whether right or wrong) and when people throw their opinion out into the public there is always the chance it will come back to hurt them, more so for those who are repeat offenders.

 

[mozza91]

Just saw a photo of Folau and his missus. They look like they’re related. Mormon Jesus probably wouldn’t like that shit.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

How are the welsh more persecuted than the Scottish and Irish?

With all the welsh people I’ve worked with and befriended I’ve never know any to be religious. Sure they like a choir.

It's obviously nothing about being religious; in any case these are ppl who have probably moved out of Wales, don't know if you live in Oz.

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

What about gay women? In your utopia can they adopt, marry, hold hands in public?

I'd rather they didn't hold hands, but i wouldn't make it illegal for same sex ppl to hold hands in a loving way in public. I'm not too keen on lesbians adopting a child either, obviously a lesbian shouldn't be forced to give up her child if she has one.

 

[BM1979]

His 'personal' Instagram account he uses to advertise stuff?

Come now.

It is a personal account. I honestly don't even get the outrage over the whole affair. A guy posted his religious beliefs on Instagram (it was not even offensive TBH) .

The funny thing is most of the people who are outraged don't even believe in God or Hell anyway (I don't either) but will do anything to show people how outraged they are that these people are condemned to this imaginary place by this imaginary god

 

[jaseg]

I guess given atheists don’t believe in false constructs like sin and hell they wouldn’t be offended, however atheists don’t have a recent, and to some degree still, history of persecution where as gay people do so I can see why they would be much more offended, especially if you are a gay Christian

Atheists can be offended by some dickhead preaching cherry picked verses from a book he obviously doesn't take too seriously, given his alcohol consumption, tattoos, clean shaved face and haircut (and those are just the outwardly obvious things we know about...).

They can also be offended at the idea of some dickhead telling a group of people they need to apologise for they way they were born, something they can't help.

 

[jaseg]

Apart from in the grey area of incitement to violence comments and words cannot cause actual measurable harm, only actions can cause harm, and Folau hasn't actively discriminated against anyone or any group, and unless your standard for incitement is so ridiculously loose that it's effectively meaningless, he hasn't incited anybody to violence against anyone or any group either, he's simply share an offensive opinion...



When Israel made the comments he wasn't at work or acting as a representative of his employers, they were made on his personal Tiwtter/Instagram/whatever account.

Are you seriously suggesting that even when he is on his own time that he should have to act according to employers standards and values, what a terrifyingly Orwellian idea...

BTW, I don't have an opinion on his contract, maybe he did have a clause in there that said he'd keep such opinions to himself, IDK, but it's beside the point that I'm making anyway.

Pretty simple mate, if he wants to make those posts he can - but he can't do it and also continue to get paid millions by Rugby Australia, who are a public organisation that needs to engage with the community at large (who generally, guess what, don't buy into the bullshit Folau is peddling) to continue being a going concern. He's either too dull to understand this, or cares about nothing but preaching a message based on a cherry picked part of the bible (since he obviously doesn't abide by all of the bible's teachings). RA has a player's code of conduct, all players are subject to it (and aware of it - and Folau should be even more so given his previous), agree to follow those rules when they sign their contracts, and he has very clearly breached it. Simple.

And... he hasn't actively discriminated? The bloke is telling a group of people they need to apologize for the way they were born. That is discrimination, silly.

 

[The Great Dane]

Haha good luck with that! Never been that way in history of mankind, never will be that way.

True true, read it too quickly and overlooked reprisal for response. My bad.

Still, it's not a stance I agree with regardless. I don't think that sort of idealism can exist in the modern world (whether right or wrong) and when people throw their opinion out into the public there is always the chance it will come back to hurt them, more so for those who are repeat offenders.

Except it has existed in history in varying forms for centuries since the Enlightenment and right through to the modern era, not only in the USA, but in large parts of the western world (including all of the Anglosphere) prior to the introduction of things such as hate speech laws, which are effectively the reinstatement of blasphemy laws with a schmick new paint job.

Sure there have historically been abuses of those principles of free speech on occasion, but there have been abuses of every principle and law ever invented by any civilisation for as long as civilisation has existed, and suggesting that because something could be abused or has been abused we can't/shouldn't have it is absolutely ridiculous.

As an aside, I find it rather ironic that you are currently railing against the principle of freedom of speech in the name of protecting gay rights when the whole concept of equal rights for gay people never would have been able to spread in mainstream society again without the protections of freedom of speech.