the phantom menace
Coach
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Mike and Brian must shop at the same shirt store...
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Mike and Brian must shop at the same shirt store...
And THAT is the key question... the players need a defence coach that will really get up them for not digging in and doing what is needed, and dirve motivation and improvement culture.
That has nothing to do with getting the most out of the roster that we have right now.
Easy. Lets start blaming @hineyrulz
That’s because you overestimate nuffy teams but underestimate the capability of our side.
No it's because I've seen how two premiership winning coaches have gone at our club. I've also seen multiple coaches win premierships at big clubs and struggle to win at weaker clubs. I am convinced that individual games are won by teams not coaches, and that premierships are won by strong teams, that might have Hagan, Stuart, Maguire or Green in charge. Yes I think coaching is a factor (all four of these are/were NRL quality coaches) but they also prove you don't need to be a great (or even above average) coach to win a comp. Stuart also proves you don't need to be incompetent to finish last. It's a team game, and the coaching staff is just part of it. Less important than the team's key players, IMO.
Were those premiership coaches coaching this roster? If not then your comparisons are meaningless. Also performances as coach aren’t a monolith. Coaches can have good and bad seasons just like players. I don’t think fans expect a premiership every season but they do expect some level of improvement (It doesn’t look like we’ve improved since 2020). Payten is having a great season so far this year. Do you think he would be getting similar praise if he was doing this in year 10 without a title to show for it?
No of course not. Only Trent Robinson has coached any of these players to a premiership (Matterson).
You leave the analysis to me. The comparison is relevant because it shows how important the roster is to a coach's success. Ricky Stuart has one of the best finals records of any coach in the NRL, yet at our club he couldn't win more than five games in a season.
Well my point is the praise is unwarranted. He is at a big club with a history of success, with half a dozen players who have won premierships under other coaches.
No one is saying the roster isn’t an important factor in regards to the success of a club so you’re addressing a question that isn’t being asked. The real question is whether the coach is a factor in extracting the maximal potential from a given roster. I would say the answer is a resounding yes and I’m sure you would as well. I don’t believe our team is currently playing as well as it could be. I think you’re way off the mark in regards to Todd Payten’s praise being unwarranted. Since the Cowboys last made the grand final they have finished 13th,14th,14th, and 15th (isn’t it funny how the players who won premierships under different coaches weren’t a factor for these years?). As I said before fans expect an improvement and on that front he has delivered so far.
Improvement in our shape is obvious.
That’s not the real question either because I’m sure we both agree he is.
So why would you claim this is the real question if it’s not in dispute?
I know you believe this which is why the real question is where is your proof?
They were 15th under Payten ffs. Whatever changed it wasn’t him.
We improved under Arthur as well and it didn’t take two years. We won five games in 2013 and twelve in 2014. The difference was an injection of new playing talent, just like at North Queensland this year. They’ve finally got a kicking game plus a bunch of young talent has finally come of age.
It’s pretty well publicised how Payten changed his training methods during the off season. Some of the new players in Townsend and Dearden weren’t exactly hot property when they were bought. The Cowboys were mocked for spending big money on Townsend. They have had a few players have break out seasons but the majority of their side is the same as last season.
If we lose today the season is over and hopefully that is the end of Brad.
