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Dragons chase Jarryd Hayne

hazzbeen

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
Old Timer said:
You say Mann had plenty of opportunity to excel and put a claim in for selection well what position was he continually selected in to excel at?
He came as a FB and had 2 games in total so do you really think that is fair in light of Mc Crone, Lafai, Aitken’ continual selection despite poor form?
The notion that Kurt didn’t play well whilst selected out of position is all on his shoulders and not the coach’s is simply ridiculous.
FB or left centre is his stock & trade so tell me how many times he was selected in the run on side for 1st grade in either of those positions.
The supposition that Mann is a poor quality option because he didn’t excel as a stop gap everything from 1- 11 is just crazy as he was never given his opportunity due to pig headed and obstinate behaviour by the coach.
When given a home on the wing in 2017 he did adjust and did excel so why should that be discounted?
Click to expand...
Old Timer spot on again , I was going to reply to much the same as you have .....
 
True_Believer

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
BLM01 said:
A

Agree, he was a half if anything in Junior days as he tells it
Click to expand...

Exactly. He talks about being a half in the Juniors and we know he played half in Q-Cup. I don't think he played much (if any) fullback before he joined us. My understanding is that he was a half and then squeezed into centre at the Storm.
 
Coffs dragon

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
4,401
Old Timer said:
You say Mann had plenty of opportunity to excel and put a claim in for selection well what position was he continually selected in to excel at?
He came as a FB and had 2 games in total so do you really think that is fair in light of Mc Crone, Lafai, Aitken’ continual selection despite poor form?
The notion that Kurt didn’t play well whilst selected out of position is all on his shoulders and not the coach’s is simply ridiculous.
FB or left centre is his stock & trade so tell me how many times he was selected in the run on side for 1st grade in either of those positions.
The supposition that Mann is a poor quality option because he didn’t excel as a stop gap everything from 1- 11 is just crazy as he was never given his opportunity due to pig headed and obstinate behaviour by the coach.
When given a home on the wing in 2017 he did adjust and did excel so why should that be discounted?
Click to expand...
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I must say that I totally agree with OT on this. Being moved around from pillar to post as a stop gap filler has been extremely detrimental in Kurt Mann's development.
If given the opportunity at the Knights, I'm sure Brownie will select him in one sole position.
 
BLM01

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
9,978
True_Believer said:
Exactly. He talks about being a half in the Juniors and we know he played half in Q-Cup. I don't think he played much (if any) fullback before he joined us. My understanding is that he was a half and then squeezed into centre at the Storm.
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Yeh just Billy Slater in front of him if he had visions of being a fullback, suppose when he came to Dragons a couple of years ago we had just Widdop & Flo of note, so all other backline positions were up for grabs if you were good enough.
At fullback he would of never been comfortable, centre YES, wing..maybe yeh...5/8th maybe not at NRL level. I know he played just 2 games at fullback but it was how he looked there to me and the instinct for the position, not about the mistakes he made. Even slower FLO made a better fist of fullback cause he had instinct of where to be and positioning himself. Dufty is young, needs to learn some defensive stuff but has that X-factor instinct for a full back.
He himself could prove me wrong as still young 25? odd, but to make it at fullback you need to be doing so at a younger age cause it is all about speed and covering distance and being a good talker. Not many maybe except Holmes can transition back to a top class fullback from another NRL position post early-mid 20's. Most as they age work from the back to the front :)
 
Old Timer

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,994
True_Believer said:
Can I just ask where we got the idea that fullback was his 'stock & trade'?
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Our recruitment department, as that is the reason why they purchased him.
Mann to FB, Dugan to centre but then Mann dropped Dugan to FB Aitken to centre and then later on Mann to wing and plenty of tries.
Plenty of people scrap heaped him after 1 inglorious game and 1 mediocre to OK game at FB, yet other players got ad infinitum chances in their positions despite extremely poor form so why was it not so for Mann?
People talk about Dufty being young and giving him a chance Mann was 23 when he had the 2 games at FB hardly an old man.
FMD Justin Hodges proved a very good example of what a little patience can do for you.
If the impirical evidence is that 2 games signified his entire career and he should be moved on as a result of that then people are insane.
 
aquiin

aquiin

Juniors
Messages
194
In a nutshell. Mann was a very good junior fullback up in Qld. He played fullback and five-eighth for Queensland. Half and fullback for Newcastle. Melbourne bought him to develop in the halves but used him as a utility/centre. Not the first fullback or halfback to do well early but then end up playing a different role.

His preference is to play in the halves and was more comfortable in the role he was playing for us more than wing and centre. I wouldn’t underestimate how the player feels. He is invaluable to us but someone who is willing to take a punt will have a starting spot available and more guaranteed money. He is still a project as a five-eighth.
 
B

barry

Bench
Messages
2,641
In a nutshell Mann was given ample opportunities to live up to the expectation to the hype that for some weird reason most people on this forum have for him and failed on every opportunity other then playing on the wing which he did his job nothing more or less.

Starting full back FAIL
starting centre FAIL ( failed to create anything)
Starting 5/8 FAIL (how was he picked to start ahead of field?)
Bench utlility player - MEH average would much rather field or Robson on the bench

Yet for years and years Mary was a merkin to him and everyone’s surprised he didn’t ask for a release earlier.

Average first graders like Mann would kill to have the amount of opportunities his had to show something, time and and time again he has proven to be nothing more then a tough kid that has a go but is an average winger/utlility player off the bench at best
 
SGMax

SGMax

Juniors
Messages
460
Over 1000 posts and it continues.
I am a Hayne fan but we need to stop being used.
Make an offer and give him a deadline.

If Hayne comes I hope we can keep Dufty....maybe give him pre season and a few games to prove himself. Otherwise he can develop in ISP and be backup.
Dufty is still young in FB terms and should be patient . Very lucky to be the main FB in his first year of 1st grade. Most start on the wing for the first few years.

What I have picked up is:
Dufty wants an upgrade and the club are letting him get it elsewhere.
Mann may want to go to Newcastle but would be taking a huge risk if its to play No.9.

Not sure how other teams manage to get such loyalty from players.
Reject them, put them last on your signing priority, shop them around and they still want to stay.
I suspect under the table component to their agreements that they don't want to lose.

Also, something doesn't add up.
If we are releasing Dufty or Mann or both that means we will have at least 3 positions to fill on our roster.
Surely we would not have 2 spaces now without some funding to back it up.
 
True_Believer

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
aquiin said:
In a nutshell. Mann was a very good junior fullback up in Qld. He played fullback and five-eighth for Queensland. Half and fullback for Newcastle. Melbourne bought him to develop in the halves but used him as a utility/centre. Not the first fullback or halfback to do well early but then end up playing a different role.

His preference is to play in the halves and was more comfortable in the role he was playing for us more than wing and centre. I wouldn’t underestimate how the player feels. He is invaluable to us but someone who is willing to take a punt will have a starting spot available and more guaranteed money. He is still a project as a five-eighth.
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That's a good point aquiin. How the player feels is very relevant. I guess if he was that disgruntled with the role he played in the team, he wouldn't have signed an extension last time and would have been long gone by now.

So based on you saying that he wasn't the first FB/HB to do well early and then play a different role, are you suggesting that maybe those roles are no longer where he excels? That maybe he would be better concentrating his efforts elsewhere? I guess my concern for those 2 roles is his communication. He doesn't seem to be that much of a talker and in my opinion both those roles require a lot of talking on the field. Having said that, I don't think Dufty talks all that much either. There's probably a bit of a gap in our team in that space...
 
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