Dragons To Break Away From Illawarra.

[muzby]

Oh good, Samy’s joined the party..

The quality of the thread can only get better from here..

 

[Dragonsamy]

Thanks Muzby love you to lol

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Okay, given your reluctance to answer a simple question we’ll take that as you’ve realised the St George brand is worth nothing these days.

It’s a shame that it’s been so poorly managed since the 80’s as there would have been quite a bit of value in it before that..

You must like talking to yourself because that is what you are doing.
Making it up as you go, no insight or perspective.
It would benefit all of us if you just posted silently so we wouldn't have to read your nonsense.

 

[muzby]

You must like talking to yourself because that is what you are doing.
Making it up as you go, no insight or perspective.
It would benefit all of us if you just posted silently so we wouldn't have to read your nonsense.

If it’s all made up nonsense, why aren’t you using your expertise in the IP field to set me straight?

What’s the St George brand worth?
What IP do they own?
What trademarks do they have?

 

[Willow]

OK if you want to quote then do so correctly
I actually said
"Far too many people have the delusional notion that all the best Illawarra players went to St George as if it was some feeder club."

I haven't misrepresented your quote. I maintain that you are exaggerating and there are not "far too many" people. And again, I find your use of the word "delusional" in this context funny due to the irony.

I personally want to see the day when we are called St George again - ie to regain some lost heritage. Plenty of people still call us St George or Saints. I have no problem with St George Dragons because that was used as a nickname previous to the JV. Call me an optimist but I believe it is achievable. IMO, we are already there in practical terms. It'll only require some will from the top to realise that "St George" is far more powerful than "St George Illawarra" when it comes to marketing.

That's not to say that Illawarra are useless in all this. I think they play an important role in helping to underpin our junior base. If we are to be called St George again, we need to bring Illawarra with us. That includes continuing to play 50% of home games in Wollongong, and junior development.

I know you think you are trying to dispel some myth, but all you're doing is looking for an argument where none exists - and therein lies the irony. Moreover, it doesn't help with (what should be) the common cause to restore our heritage.

Without trawling over posts in this place there are some of that opinion in here and for my way of thinking more than 2 or 3 of them would be far too many would account for "delusional".

So, it's really not that big a deal, right? More than 2 or 3 now, and you can't recall exactly who.

FMD even some in the media have carried on thinking that for years.

There have been assertions for years that St George would not have been successful without the Illawarra bla bla bla thus my quote above please pay particular attention to the part in bold.

I think we've already established that this isn't the case The common view is that St George won all those premierships largely because of the greatness of St George and the people involved in the Club throughout those golden years.

I am simply making the point that not everything out of the Illawarra went to St George and many great Illawarra players went to other clubs as well.

Well, you've said a lot more than that. Do you see me arguing that point? It's a not a revelation, you know?

Fulton, Dorahy, Roach and Schubert spring to mind. Of course St George also recruited a lot of great players from the Illawarra and that can't be ignored, but I still maintain that was largely due to the greatness of St George.

I make this point is to dispel the opinion some have that St George would not be able to stand alone and as muzby puts it be a CC competitor.

Is that what all this about? The views of another forum member who is no doubt trying to rattle your cage, and appears to be succeeding?

I didn't need the history lesson but thanks anyway but what did happen when Illawarra did join the comp?

For all the richness of their talent pool and the many nurseries it had in its own backyard and after gaining entry to the comp the club failed so what would make you think that it would have survived if it had of gained entry in 67?

I do believe you need to re-read what I posted. You missed the start of the paragraph where I said, "We can but imagine..."

 

[Willow]

Very much this..

I find that it’s not so much St George vs Illawarra, but more JV vs anti-JV..

We’re stronger together than we are separate..

And yet, the debate has been with us since the JV began.

Let's just call us St George again. Illawarra fans are more than welcomed to come along for the ride.

It would solve a lot of issues.

 

[muzby]

And yet, the debate has been with us since the JV began.

Let's just call us St George again. Illawarra fans are more than welcomed to come along for the ride.

It would solve a lot of issues.

But it would also cause more issues..

One, for example should it be referred to as St George or should it be Saint George?

 

[Willow]

But it would also cause more issues..

One, for example should it be referred to as St George or should it be Saint George?

I think we can work with that.

Seriously, what is wrong with just calling us St George? I can only see positives. From a marketing perspective, it is one of the greatest names in sport.

Is the JV board against it? And if so, why?

 

[TruSaint]

Out of interest, how many of the members here from the Illawarra side of the JV, would be ok with dropping the name?
I am honestly curious.

 

[muzby]

Seriously, what is wrong with just calling us St George?

Lots of things.

Should be St George Dragons.

From a marketing perspective, it is one of the greatest names in sport.

Possibly so, but we’ll need to hear back from our resident branding expert.. But he seems quite slow at responding..

Is the JV board against it?

Yes

And if so, why?

Because they are jerks.

 

[Willow]

Lots of things.

Should be St George Dragons.

Possibly so, but we’ll need to hear back from our resident branding expert.. But he seems quite slow at responding..



Yes

Because they are jerks.

I have no problem with St George Dragons.

You see.... common ground.

 

[muzby]

Out of interest, how many of the members here from the Illawarra side of the JV, would be ok with dropping the name?
I am honestly curious.

For me, I’ve been following the dragons longer than the Steelers.

I attach myself to the team monkier, not the location. Probably driven by the fact that I’m interstate now though.

The Illawarra part of the name does help stir the heart fires (or possibly that’s just my lunchtime curry) but I’m not as precious about the media calling us “St George” as some folk got last week when the ref called us “Illawarra”

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

If it’s all made up nonsense, why aren’t you using your expertise in the IP field to set me straight?

What’s the St George brand worth?
What IP do they own?
What trademarks do they have?

Simply because I don't have to and don't want to.
Stupid questions by a ridiculous participant on this forum.

 

[muzby]

Simply because I don't have to and don't want to.
Stupid questions by a ridiculous participant on this forum.

But yet you’ve spent more time NOT answering than you would take to answer.

The only people who do that are either people who don’t know, or people who realise they’re wrong.

Which one are you?

And have you signed the petition yet?

 

[Willow]

For me, I’ve been following the dragons longer than the Steelers.

I attach myself to the team monkier, not the location. Probably driven by the fact that I’m interstate now though.

The Illawarra part of the name does help stir the heart fires (or possibly that’s just my lunchtime curry) but I’m not as precious about the media calling us “St George” as some folk got last week when the ref called us “Illawarra”

St George supporters are generally more passionate than Illawarra supporters. There's good reasons for that.

If only we could get the JV board to understand those reasons.

 

[muzby]

St George supporters are generally more passionate than Illawarra supporters. There's good reasons for that.

If only we could get the JV board to understand those reasons.

I’m not sure if they’re “more passionate” than Illawarra supporters..

I think it’s just that when Illawarra supporters get frustrated, they have nice beaches, forests & things like skydiving to release their pent up feelings..

When St George supporters get frustrated they can’t do any of that, they just yell at the Taj..

Don’t confuse frustration for passion..


This is why our forces combined are good for both parties..

 

[Saint Pedro]

I went to so many Illawarra Steelers games as a kid and Watched us lose the game against the broncos in 92 at the Sydney football stadium. Loved the team, and funnily enough, loved the marriage to saints in 99 more. Cooler uniform, history to match an empire and a hard edge to them. I never think of the team as the Steelers Since the joint venture, it’s Saint George to me. The old commentators refer to them as Saint George and it just sounds right. Steelers should have always been the reserve grade team, saints first grade. In saying that, a few of the old Steelers supporters can’t follow the dragons, they went elsewhere.

 

[George Sancti]

Good afternoon all,

I have been a long time follower of the forum and have enjoyed the input of many of the regulars over the years. With more time available these days, I thought that I would venture into the lions’ (sorry Dragons’) den.

Regarding the St George Leagues Club – WIN JV, I believe the business model is financially more stable and sustainable over the long term than the business models adopted by most clubs.

Leagues Club Financed Model (Bulldogs, Panthers etc): The football club is protected to some degree by the club’s constitution to propagate rugby league, however future changes in legislation or demographics could see a sharp downturn in revenue. Prior to the poker machine tax and smoking legislation, most registered clubs made skillions. It was only a couple of years ago that the mighty Panthers conglomerate were facing bankruptcy.

Corporate Ownership Model (Broncos, Warriors etc): The fate of the football club is subject to the health of the balance sheet. An extended downturn in profits could easily lead to a fire sale with little regard for history or the fans.

Benefactor Model (Manly, South etc) A very risky model with a short term outlook. Once the benefactor ceases to support the club, there is no guarantee that a ready made replacement will fill the void. Did anyone contribute to Save the Sharks after Geoffrey Edelsten?

Hybrid Leagues Club - Corporate Ownership Model (St George Illawarra): Has the benefit of the constitutional protection and revenue from dual income streams. Failures listed above would weaken the JV, however would not be fatal giving the stronger partner the opportunity to secure a new arrangement.

I believe that we are one administrator away from being a super club again. For more than twenty years we have survived with semi professionals (amateurs with good intentions) running the club. When you consider top administrators of the past such as Ken Arthurson and Kevin Humphreys and what happened to their clubs after they left, we are in a much stronger position.

In any case, it is good hearing ideas on how we could make the club a stronger enterprise, whilst ensuring that it survives and prospers for our grandchildren to support.

 

[muzby]

Good afternoon all,

I have been a long time follower of the forum and have enjoyed the input of many of the regulars over the years. With more time available these days, I thought that I would venture into the lions’ (sorry Dragons’) den.

Regarding the St George Leagues Club – WIN JV, I believe the business model is financially more stable and sustainable over the long term than the business models adopted by most clubs.

Leagues Club Financed Model (Bulldogs, Panthers etc): The football club is protected to some degree by the club’s constitution to propagate rugby league, however future changes in legislation or demographics could see a sharp downturn in revenue. Prior to the poker machine tax and smoking legislation, most registered clubs made skillions. It was only a couple of years ago that the mighty Panthers conglomerate were facing bankruptcy.

Corporate Ownership Model (Broncos, Warriors etc): The fate of the football club is subject to the health of the balance sheet. An extended downturn in profits could easily lead to a fire sale with little regard for history or the fans.

Benefactor Model (Manly, South etc) A very risky model with a short term outlook. Once the benefactor ceases to support the club, there is no guarantee that a ready made replacement will fill the void. Did anyone contribute to Save the Sharks after Geoffrey Edelsten?

Hybrid Leagues Club - Corporate Ownership Model (St George Illawarra): Has the benefit of the constitutional protection and revenue from dual income streams. Failures listed above would weaken the JV, however would not be fatal giving the stronger partner the opportunity to secure a new arrangement.

I believe that we are one administrator away from being a super club again. For more than twenty years we have survived with semi professionals (amateurs with good intentions) running the club. When you consider top administrators of the past such as Ken Arthurson and Kevin Humphreys and what happened to their clubs after they left, we are in a much stronger position.

In any case, it is good hearing ideas on how we could make the club a stronger enterprise, whilst ensuring that it survives and prospers for our grandchildren to support.

Thanks for finally signing up to the forums, Bruce

 

[Dragons 09]

Good thought provoking first post George and welcome to the den!