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Dragons To Break Away From Illawarra.

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
It appears you are questions the maths as you have asked where I learned to count.
So if we haven’t won a comp for 10 years and if I said < 5 years shouldn’t be included when would the supporter who has seen a GF win have been born?
I think that means 2005 so why wouldn’t I remove the < 15 year olds or doesn’t 2020 - 2005 = 15
I’m talking about a stand alone St George premiership.

Why can’t you comprehend that?

Removing under 15 has bugger all influence in improving those numbers, given that was 41 years ago.

You’re not going too well in this thread.. So many comprehension fails.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,523
I’m talking about a stand alone St George premiership.

Why can’t you comprehend that?

Removing under 15 has bugger all influence in improving those numbers, given that was 41 years ago.

You’re not going too well in this thread.. So many comprehension fails.
You mightn't like my post, you might like my assumptions but the maths relating to those statements and assumptions that I made were absolutely spot on despite your ridiculous assertion to the contrary.

So if you don't understand that god help the people you do maths for.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,534
17 premierships! Look out souffs, we’re coming!
No, that's not what I said.

But your response is the same that I used to get from S0uffs forummers. I applaud you for trying to find common ground with opposition supporters.
 

smi962

First Grade
Messages
5,246
I respect your views but I think you are underestimating the value of the "brand" - even today.
I think the catchment area is not as you describe and under the right structure and management, St. George could be a phoenix rising.
However, there are some prerequisites:
1. No way it would work with the current Board and management philosophy.
Private ownership would be the way to go with the new owners not being hamstrung by back room deals like the WIN buy in and the current coaching appointment that has turned into a fiasco.
2. Easts are a great example of a Sydney club that is a huge success with a limited junior nursery.
The secret seems to be excellent management and a premiership winning mentality. Something that we have not had since the JV started.
Knock uncle Nick all you like but he has carved out a long term success story in the geographic centre of Sydney.
3. You only have to look at the years when St. George were winning games and making the finals on a regular basis - crowd numbers and merchandise sales - one of the best of all the clubs in the NRL.
Why would that dynamic suddenly be lost if the team was well run and successful?
4. Coach - Robinson has proven himself to be one of the best coaches in the NRL.
Bellamy and even old man Bennett have sparkling records (+60% win ratios) because they know what they are doing.
They also attract the best players like a magnet.
The JV have just wasted 7 years pushing McGregor's barrow to the club's great detriment.
Bottom line - the stats don't lie and we will never change our fortunes waiting for McGregor to magically become a premiership winning coach.

Stand alone with the right ownership and management and there is absolutely no reason why St. George cannot become one of the best clubs in the NRL again.
We have to stop kidding ourselves regarding the JV and the contribution of the Illawarra bolt on.
By any measure it hasn't worked and if the St. George "brand" is a little tarnished right now, it's because of this flawed pathway.
Tradition seems to be an anathema to some people but to me it one of the main reasons I support the club.
You can't discount or ignore our history.

What I think doesn't really mean a lot because what we are talking about will probably never happen but if the question is can St. George go it alone and succeed? My answer is absolutely.YES.

Yes of course, Titans/Illawarra could also be successful if each of these pretty big and important prerequisites on private ownership/management/recruitment were addressed - but the current state of the club is so far away from what you suggest above.

I would suggest to put St George into such a position would involve different leadership, a lot of hard work and some luck; not sure where that leadership is coming from and we are definitely not in a position to believe a 'demerger' would be beneficial currently.

I would like to know what you believe the demographics are?
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
You mightn't like my post, you might like my assumptions but the maths relating to those statements and assumptions that I made were absolutely spot on despite your ridiculous assertion to the contrary.

So if you don't understand that god help the people you do maths for.
How is 30% more than 70%?

Help a brother out..
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
No, that's not what I said.

But your response is the same that I used to get from S0uffs forummers. I applaud you for trying to find common ground with opposition supporters.
Don’t be silly.. Souffs fans say we only have 1..
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,523
How is 30% more than 70%?

Help a brother out..
Never said it was & if you think it is then you need help & if you think I said it was you need even more help.

Just stick to the subject at hand where you criticised my maths and whilst doing that don't allow yourself to drift away and try to find a soft landing.

As I said you mighn't like the post, you mighn't like the assumptions but you didn't say that up front you criticised the maths.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,900
How is 30% more than 70%?

Help a brother out..
May 30% of St George supports totalled more individuals than 30% of all other clubs combined given that St George have a worldwide following second to none.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,900
How is 30% more than 70%?

Help a brother out..
May 30% of St George supports totalled more individuals than 30% of all other clubs combined given that St George have a worldwide following second to none.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,534
Don’t be silly.. Souffs fans say we only have 1..
It's up to you and others if you want to respect the 16 premierships. I know they happened.

But I am laying out the welcome mat. In particular, I genuinely want the Illawarra to be part of this.

The way I see it, the only real barrier is getting the JV board to agree that WE are St George.

To them it's just a brand name, so why oppose the brand with a history of great success? Why not just call us St George? I have yet to see a rational business answer to this question.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,900
It's up to you and others if you want to respect the 16 premierships. I know they happened.

But I am laying out to welcome mat. In particular, I genuinely want the Illawarra to be part of this.

The way I see it, the only real barrier is getting the JV board to agree that WE are St George.

To them it's just a brand name, so why oppose the brand with a history of great success? Why not just call us St George? I have yet to see a rational business answer to this question.
Souths had their GF win count officially restored when they were let back into the NRL. So if St George went it alone, our GF count should also be officially restored.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
May 30% of St George supports totalled more individuals than 30% of all other clubs combined given that St George have a worldwide following second to none.
I’m talking about the total population..

You can’t sub segment the entire population and then say it’s greater than the whole.

That’s worse maths than Old Timer’s.. Ir dare I say, even worse than Millward’s..
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
Never said it was & if you think it is then you need help & if you think I said it was you need even more help.

Just stick to the subject at hand where you criticised my maths and whilst doing that don't allow yourself to drift away and try to find a soft landing.

As I said you mighn't like the post, you mighn't like the assumptions but you didn't say that up front you criticised the maths.
Please don’t backpeddle.

Explain how the majority of the Australian population has never seen a stand-alone St George premiership.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
It's up to you and others if you want to respect the 16 premierships. I know they happened.

But I am laying out the welcome mat. In particular, I genuinely want the Illawarra to be part of this.

The way I see it, the only real barrier is getting the JV board to agree that WE are St George.

To them it's just a brand name, so why oppose the brand with a history of great success? Why not just call us St George? I have yet to see a rational business answer to this question.
I respect the 16.. Hell, I’ve defended it against the souffs horde..

But if we’re talking from a business perspective, we’re asking for the Illawarra faction to stump up 50% of the cash, but give up their jersey & identity..

Getting one extra name in the crest, at the bottom of the crest, is not an unfair ask..
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,534
I see you have conveniently omitted the fact that the side played in 3 grand finals during the 90s as St George and even as STGI were seriously in contention in 1999, 2005-2006 before again being relevant as STGI in 2009-2010.

Contrast this to Illawarra who generally only contested the wooden spoon from the time of their admission into the NRL.

It’s hard to preach unity whilst you and the orange man continually promote division.

Give your collective dribble a break guys.
IMO, we have to go easy on members like Walpole. They don't read past basic stats.

You're right, the 'lean years' of the 80s and 90s were mingled with minor premierships, club championships and grand final appearances, plus semi-final appearances when it was the top five.

You may recall when coach Roy Masters came to the Club in 1982, we just had two years without a semi-final appearance. Masters dropped first graders and promoted the reserves. He said at the time that the firsts were struggling to make the top five for sucessive years, and this was "unacceptable for St George supporters". So he took drastic action. The team qualified for the semis. In 1985 we were minor premiers in all three grades.

Nowadays, this mob think that finishing eighth is a successful season.

So yeah, please spare me the "too many St George supporters have no recollection of the 80s" line. I recall it well enough, and it was nowhere near as bad as what we have seen in the 20-teens.

On the upside, I still firmly believe we can regain what Norm Provan used to call, "the habit of winning."
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,534
I respect the 16.. Hell, I’ve defended it against the souffs horde..

But if we’re talking from a business perspective, we’re asking for the Illawarra faction to stump up 50% of the cash, but give up their jersey & identity..

Getting one extra name in the crest, at the bottom of the crest, is not an unfair ask..
Except it is damaging our identity.

The 'Illawarra faction' is called WIN Corp. They are not a football club.

The Illawarra Steelers Football Club do not have any financial stakeholdings in the JV.

It seems disingenuous to keep the Illawarra name there, especially when you think about how it is stalling our heritage.

FTR, I note that Andrew Gordon doesn't mind being promoted as "St George Dragons boss" when it comes to selling real estate. [SOURCE: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BhAB&usg=AOvVaw19NpgPbNE-SHpuq6UZkbYi&ampcf=1 ]

The St George name opens doors in business. So why not give us back our history?

We are all missing out here. Time to take back the castle.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
Except it is damaging our identity.

The 'Illawarra faction' is called WIN Corp. They are not a football club.

The Illawarra Steelers Football Club do not have any financial stakeholdings in the JV.

It seems disingenuous to keep the Illawarra name there, especially when you think about how it is stalling our heritage.

FTR, I note that Andrew Gordon doesn't mind being promoted as "St George Dragons boss" when it comes to selling real estate. The St George name opens doors in business. So why not give us back our history?

We are all missing out here. Time to take back the castle.
But from a business perspective it doesn't make sense.

St George RLFC contribute less to the club than a minor sponsor.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,194
Why would I need to explain that ?
Because so far you’ve pulled a few different stats out of your bum to try and prove relevance, unfortunately none of which have been able to do so..

If you’re going to try and argue with independent, statistically relevant fact, you’ll need to come up with a better explanation.

Or can’t you comprehend that?
 

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