Edwards or DWZ for fullback next year

[Flashstep]

DWZ should never play Centre again, his defence there was shocking and Whare/Blake have pretty much those positions locked down for the next few years at least.

Still weird people think Edwards has any sort of passing game also, unless you count passing to people in the crowd as being good, he is a better support player than DWZ sure but DWZ has been learning fullback on the run and has gotten better with every game he has played there, I think he’s earnt the right to have a full pre-season at fullback to work on his game and also the combinations with our team and try to lock down the fullback spot long term.

 

[mxlegend99]

Unless it is Luai or someone that can ball play. There is no reason to move Edwards the only thing he did wrong was get injured. DWZ is filling in for the Dally M player of the year right now. Does anyone think RTS shouldn't get his spot back? Edwards has the more upside as far as getting Try assists from back there. DWZ and Edwards both had 2 Line break assists. One played 8 games one played 20 games

Dallin is not better than RTS. So no.

He is better than Edwards though. So if you picked the position solely on who was better it's DWZ every day of the week.

The only reason Edwards should be a chance at getting it back is that we dont have any great wingers ready to replace Dallin. While Edwards is still a very good fullback.

DWZ just outplayed the Australian backline and was arguably the best back on the field. After also being the Kiwis best earlier in the year. He was picked as captain ahead of older and more experienced players... many with captain experience aswell. He is a good winger. But Dallin goes to a new level at fullback. The more he grows in confidence, the freakier he gets.

At the highest level against the supposed best team in the world he was incredible. I can understand peoplr thinking Edwards at fullback makes the top 17 better overall. But I can't believe so many people think that Edwards is a better fullback and that Dallin is as effective on the wing as he is at fullback. We move him and he will be less effective.

As you mentioned in regards to RTS. Would NZ or Warriors move him to the wing accommodate an inferior fullback? Or is there a certain point where a player is so good you say f**k it and force the second best guy to either move or improve?

 

[franklin2323]

Dallin is not better than RTS. So no.

He is better than Edwards though. So if you picked the position solely on who was better it's DWZ every day of the week.

The only reason Edwards should be a chance at getting it back is that we dont have any great wingers ready to replace Dallin. While Edwards is still a very good fullback.

DWZ just outplayed the Australian backline and was arguably the best back on the field. After also being the Kiwis best earlier in the year. He was picked as captain ahead of older and more experienced players... many with captain experience aswell. He is a good winger. But Dallin goes to a new level at fullback. The more he grows in confidence, the freakier he gets.

At the highest level against the supposed best team in the world he was incredible. I can understand peoplr thinking Edwards at fullback makes the top 17 better overall. But I can't believe so many people think that Edwards is a better fullback and that Dallin is as effective on the wing as he is at fullback. We move him and he will be less effective.

As you mentioned in regards to RTS. Would NZ or Warriors move him to the wing accommodate an inferior fullback? Or is there a certain point where a player is so good you say f**k it and force the second best guy to either move or improve?

How is he better then Edwards though? Stats say otherwise.

 

[franklin2323]

DWZ should never play Centre again, his defence there was shocking and Whare/Blake have pretty much those positions locked down for the next few years at least.

Still weird people think Edwards has any sort of passing game also, unless you count passing to people in the crowd as being good, he is a better support player than DWZ sure but DWZ has been learning fullback on the run and has gotten better with every game he has played there, I think he’s earnt the right to have a full pre-season at fullback to work on his game and also the combinations with our team and try to lock down the fullback spot long term.

DWZ has been a winger even from NYC games in 2013. Edwards was signed as a half so of course can create better

 

[Flashstep]

DWZ has been a winger even from NYC games in 2013. Edwards was signed as a half so of course can create better

I just don't see that he brings any play making to the table in first grade, maybe he was a half when he was younger but if he was moved to fullback it probably tells you he lacks the play making ability the position requires not that he actually has it.

 

[franklin2323]

I just don't see that he brings any play making to the table in first grade, maybe he was a half when he was younger but if he was moved to fullback it probably tells you he lacks the play making ability the position requires not that he actually has it.

As opposed to someone in their mid 20's who has played exclusively on the wing from 18? Personally I want a ball player back there Luai or May for example.

That won't happen. Every stat to measure Edwards is better than DWZ. If he can get his try assist tally to about 1 every couple of games especially on the right side we will be very dangerous

 

[mxlegend99]

As opposed to someone in their mid 20's who has played exclusively on the wing from 18? Personally I want a ball player back there Luai or May for example.

That won't happen. Every stat to measure Edwards is better than DWZ. If he can get his try assist tally to about 1 every couple of games especially on the right side we will be very dangerous

Except for Kick Return Metres, All Run Metres and Try Assists.

DWZ averaged 86.1m on kick returns at fullback. Edwards only beat that once with 90 metres in kick returns against Cowboys in Round 4.

DWZ gained 100+ metres in 5 of his 12 games at fullback... When i looked earlier I f**ked up the stats for DWZ missing 2 games at fullback.

DWZ had:
12 games
162m per game
86.1m of which were kick returns
3 try assists / Average of 0.25

Edwards had:
8 games
148.5m per game
56.3m were kick returns
2 try assists / average of 0.25

Dallin is by far the better kick returner. Edwards gains metres later in the sets. Based on the stats the best mix would be Dallin Watene-Zelezniak at fullback defensively. Edwards on the wing and after the first few tackles Dallin pushing to the wing.

Dallin gets to the ball faster and runs it back harder. He generates more momentum to start sets. On the wing it's too easy for teams to kick away from him. Both have areas where they are better then each other.

Dallin has proven himself on the international stage against the best in the game. His 2 best games for New Zealand came this year at fullback.

 

[mxlegend99]

I just don't see that he brings any play making to the table in first grade, maybe he was a half when he was younger but if he was moved to fullback it probably tells you he lacks the play making ability the position requires not that he actually has it.

He doesnt. 2 try assists in 8 games. Same strike rate as Dallin with 3 in 12.

 

[herbert henry1908]

DWZ should never play Centre again, his defence there was shocking and Whare/Blake have pretty much those positions locked down for the next few years at least.

Still weird people think Edwards has any sort of passing game also, unless you count passing to people in the crowd as being good, he is a better support player than DWZ sure but DWZ has been learning fullback on the run and has gotten better with every game he has played there, I think he’s earnt the right to have a full pre-season at fullback to work on his game and also the combinations with our team and try to lock down the fullback spot long term.

Never again is silly. You don’t close doors like that with someone who is still only 23. DWZ would easily usurp Whare if he’s up to the job defensively

 

[herbert henry1908]

I just don't see that he brings any play making to the table in first grade, maybe he was a half when he was younger but if he was moved to fullback it probably tells you he lacks the play making ability the position requires not that he actually has it.

He looks more likely to develop that than DWZ, put it that way.

But neither of them look naturals at it.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Except for Kick Return Metres, All Run Metres and Try Assists.

DWZ averaged 86.1m on kick returns at fullback. Edwards only beat that once with 90 metres in kick returns against Cowboys in Round 4.

DWZ gained 100+ metres in 5 of his 12 games at fullback... When i looked earlier I f**ked up the stats for DWZ missing 2 games at fullback.

DWZ had:
12 games
162m per game
86.1m of which were kick returns
3 try assists / Average of 0.25

Edwards had:
8 games
148.5m per game
56.3m were kick returns
2 try assists / average of 0.25

Dallin is by far the better kick returner. Edwards gains metres later in the sets. Based on the stats the best mix would be Dallin Watene-Zelezniak at fullback defensively. Edwards on the wing and after the first few tackles Dallin pushing to the wing.

Dallin gets to the ball faster and runs it back harder. He generates more momentum to start sets. On the wing it's too easy for teams to kick away from him. Both have areas where they are better then each other.

Dallin has proven himself on the international stage against the best in the game. His 2 best games for New Zealand came this year at fullback.

DWZ might be the better fullback for deep defensive kicks, but Edwards would be the better defensive fullback on the try line. I’d back him to contain short kicks over Dallin.

It’s a tough choice.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Except for Kick Return Metres, All Run Metres and Try Assists.

DWZ averaged 86.1m on kick returns at fullback. Edwards only beat that once with 90 metres in kick returns against Cowboys in Round 4.

DWZ gained 100+ metres in 5 of his 12 games at fullback... When i looked earlier I f**ked up the stats for DWZ missing 2 games at fullback.

DWZ had:
12 games
162m per game
86.1m of which were kick returns
3 try assists / Average of 0.25

Edwards had:
8 games
148.5m per game
56.3m were kick returns
2 try assists / average of 0.25.

Edwards averaged over 181 meters a game last season. Not sure why you'd not take that into account.

Actually, I do know why....

Also, Edwards makes more line breaks and tackle busts on average (so much for DWZ's hard running), and he averaged 0.3 something in try assists last season.

Add to the fact that with DWZ at fullback, Edwards would have to do the hard hit up out of dummy half which is not his forte - you can see that the combination of DWZ at fullback and Crichton/Phillips on the wing is much less productive overall than Edwards at fullback and DWZ on the wing.

It's all pretty simple.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Plus, DWZ clearly makes more post contact meters, which is better for a winger who has to take a run from dummy half. Edwards at wing would weaken us in that area.

And...and... and Edwards actually only played 7 games and 14 minutes - seems a bit churlish to credit it for 8 when discussing his attacking output for the season given the small sample size involved.

 

[franklin2323]

Edwards averaged over 181 meters a game last season. Not sure why you'd not take that into account.

Actually, I do know why....

Also, Edwards makes more line breaks and tackle busts on average (so much for DWZ's hard running), and he averaged 0.3 something in try assists last season.

Add to the fact that with DWZ at fullback, Edwards would have to do the hard hit up out of dummy half which is not his forte - you can see that the combination of DWZ at fullback and Crichton/Phillips on the wing is much less productive overall than Edwards at fullback and DWZ on the wing.

It's all pretty simple.

This is the point lost. 16 games last year ave 181m a game. Dallin is no where near that even if we call it 8 games 153m per game in total still over Dallin. Out of sight out of mind still applies here

 

[franklin2323]

Never again is silly. You don’t close doors like that with someone who is still only 23. DWZ would easily usurp Whare if he’s up to the job defensively

I am a Whare fan but he struggles to gain metres. Given we play a game that relies on the backs getting us out of trouble it is something that is a concern later

 

[franklin2323]

Except for Kick Return Metres, All Run Metres and Try Assists.

DWZ averaged 86.1m on kick returns at fullback. Edwards only beat that once with 90 metres in kick returns against Cowboys in Round 4.

DWZ gained 100+ metres in 5 of his 12 games at fullback... When i looked earlier I f**ked up the stats for DWZ missing 2 games at fullback.

DWZ had:
12 games
162m per game
86.1m of which were kick returns
3 try assists / Average of 0.25

Edwards had:
8 games
148.5m per game
56.3m were kick returns
2 try assists / average of 0.25

Dallin is by far the better kick returner. Edwards gains metres later in the sets. Based on the stats the best mix would be Dallin Watene-Zelezniak at fullback defensively. Edwards on the wing and after the first few tackles Dallin pushing to the wing.

Dallin gets to the ball faster and runs it back harder. He generates more momentum to start sets. On the wing it's too easy for teams to kick away from him. Both have areas where they are better then each other.

Dallin has proven himself on the international stage against the best in the game. His 2 best games for New Zealand came this year at fullback.

What about last year's stats? Do we ignore the 16 games Edwards played well then?

 

[Flashstep]

Never again is silly. You don’t close doors like that with someone who is still only 23. DWZ would easily usurp Whare if he’s up to the job defensively

He doesn’t really have the skill set to be a centre in attack either though, and besides the winger is arguably more valuable then the centre in today’s game, if Penrith don’t want him at fullback over Edwards than fair enough but he should be put back on the wing and if somebody comes in and offers him a fullback spot and he leaves then so he it.

 

[Flashstep]

He looks more likely to develop that than DWZ, put it that way.

But neither of them look naturals at it.

I can agree with that, don’t know if it’s worth the gamble but fair enough.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

I am a Whare fan but he struggles to gain metres. Given we play a game that relies on the backs getting us out of trouble it is something that is a concern later

In 2018 he was comming back from an ACL. I noticed before he broke his arm he was beginning to get better meterage.

I'm a huge fan of his work.

 

[mxlegend99]

This is the point lost. 16 games last year ave 181m a game. Dallin is no where near that even if we call it 8 games 153m per game in total still over Dallin. Out of sight out of mind still applies here

What about last year's stats? Do we ignore the 16 games Edwards played well then?

Edwards was even further away from that then Dallin was in 2018. Form changes from season to season and like it or not recent form is more relevant then a previous seasons form. 2018 form > 2017 form.

You keep moving the goalposts to insist Edwards is better in every single area when that's not true.

In 2018 Dallin was better in several areas at fullback. It's a fact you're refusing to accept by trying to decrease Dallins stats by including games on the wing or increase Edwards stats by including the previous season.

But neither Edwards 2017 season nor Dallins games on the wing change the fact that Dallin was better in several areas at fullback then Edwards was in 2018.

I like Dylan Edwards. But Dallin is better in some areas. That's a fact.