Season 2025 Changes I'd like to see.

[sup42]

This may sound a little insane, but I don't think there's that much wrong with the Warriors.
We're a bit all cake and no icing right now, but that's a lot better than being all icing and no cake.

Webster's template is to smash and dominate the middle of the park and pin them in their corner, which we do quite well. This works a treat if we keep errors down, don't concede stupid tries and nail our scoring opportunities.

The keys that unlock this are the halves, good discipline and wingers who don't f*king fly off their edges.
Last year we had almost all of this - SJ had the season of his life, we defended well, kicked well and kept errors down.

The problem with the game plan is that it's brittle: the moment we have just 1-2 players who are cooked, not gelling, falling off in D, dropping their lollies etc. - the plan completely backfires. We end up tiring the crap out of ourselves and good teams now know to just wait for the fade and run through our fatigued troops. This season showed us all the good, bad and ugly; we got it working only in pockets, but when we did we took down Penrith with a B team.


So long story short...

I actually feel like we have the blueprint + 90% of the troops we need, but there are a few key switches we need to make.

- SJ has got to go, he's just done. Thanks for an awesome 2023.
- Invest in TMM, he's clearly got what it takes to run the ship. Let TMM work a rhythm with Metcalf, CHT is our utility
- We need at least one truly fast winger, which probably means Montoya goes. DWZ is flawed but does enough (just).
- We need to make the most of our backs, there's a few ways but Tuaupiki is best at fullback and CNK & RTS are versatile enough to succeed in other spots (providing the halves unlock them).
- Need a good 13, which is a problem with a busted Harris and no Walker.

Other forwards are great, Egan will be fine if we get the above right.


I truly think we'll have a good year!

Good rant echoing a lot of my thoughts.

I also believe that we are fixable with those issues you clarified. We are also entitled to expect a better injury run next season if this year was not the worst I would be surprised.

When you add in the constant mass injury toll to key players it makes building consistency impossible.

 

[sup42]

I was tempted to post 'tear it down and rebuild with NSW cup players' in effect take a year off finals hopes and really lean in hard to making 2026 and beyond our window to really attack the comp.

It is easy to just say that, the realities are a lot more tricky, you could lose a lot of fans that way, which is not worth it when the club is going so well off field, winning organizations find a way to have their cake and eat it too.

Part of my thinking around rebuilding at high risk is that seeing the two young Centers get carved, you realise that they will probably not improve a lot more in NSW cup since they were not being tested in that environment.

Ali and Moala are known as keen on defence with good basic grounding in fundamentals. The Eels ripped that to shreds with NRL set plays which could rip apart any Center in that comp at least once a game, so what do we do?

Dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't.

I guess I defer to Websters cautious blooding regime that sees these guys given more NRL in pockets, then breaks to build confidence and desire.

 

[sup42]

The halves question should start with the best kicking half at the club being pick number one.

You are not going anywhere without a kicking half.

The same criteria should apply to your other half, they should be the best kicker out of your options in the side.

Next year the automatic picks as it stands are TMM and CHT. I love what Metcalf brings, but the guy has to do the ten thousand hours of field kicking between here and round one twenty twenty five to be a better option than Channel or Te Maire Martin.

We saw what happens when you only have one kicker in SJ. The opposition tank your season by having game plans around only needing to worry about one kicker.

Also we saw what happened when we lost SJ, the blokes left had to get kicking quickly and on the whole they did not do to bad a job of it...but if we had a more balanced approach whereby the likes of CHT and Te Maire had been kicking as alternates to Johnson, they wold be better, we would be in a better position today.

I have no doubt Metcalf can do it, I say that knowing it is a highly specialist skill that takes hours of practice, but he is a very talented athlete, he is confident, and he has done some kicking, it is not foreign to him, he could and should be made to kick on every last play in cup till he starts to find some meters, worry about the accuracy later, just get him working that leg to find distance, like driving off the tee.....put him in the driving range at practice, all three of them, make a comp out of it....make Metcalf kick every ball in cup.

I digress. The spine I want to see has Metcalf paired with TMM provided both kick. And I want CHT in the 14 to cover our backs with our crappy injury situation.

I think with the way TMM plays bullet passes with Walker, the way he takes it to the line, having Metcalf as his partner would really rip teams apart in the red zone.

But we have to have a strong kicking game first which means Metcalf has to boot the ball a lot. Webster should take him aside and say hey Luke we are looking seriously at your dream of being a seven, this is the plan....you start with kicking and we will have a serious sit down and you will get runs in the seven Jersey.

 

[sup42]

Yes, but I guess I’d wonder whether it’s possible to play 6 with Johnson and show much?

Fair point.

Which fits in with other posts about people like Leka and Jacob not getting opportunities in a team that plays robotically like paint by numbers.

The ball only goes to the same people, the same old repeated easily read template that worked in 2023 and was our undoing in 2024.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Of course it matters who plays, talent is important and Penrith have it everywhere and have developed it brilliantly .

we need talent or development (which takes time) in halves and centres most obviously. Just seen stories that Moses wants out of Eels and Roosters (of course) are after him…. I know not everyone is a fan, but we should kick the tyres I reckon

Penrith's success lies in their blueprint, not just their roster. They excel at player development and maintain a consistent system from youth grades to first grade. Despite losing players, they remain top-quality because of these systems. Some players become superstars by staying true to this approach. In contrast, the Warriors' 2023 plan was too predictable, and we suffered the consequences. Shaun Johnson's injury prevented him from executing the plan as effectively as he did last year

 

[JJ]

Penrith's success lies in their blueprint, not just their roster. They excel at player development and maintain a consistent system from youth grades to first grade. Despite losing players, they remain top-quality because of these systems. Some players become superstars by staying true to this approach. In contrast, the Warriors' 2023 plan was too predictable, and we suffered the consequences. Shaun Johnson's injury prevented him from executing the plan as effectively as he did last year

I said talent and development they have both in spades. Everyone that makes first grade has talent, we have been poor at developing it, and imo often poor at evaluating it. We like the flashy talent that shows out at lower grades, but often these kids don’t learn resilience abd the good habits around little things. Hard to imagine (for me) someone like Luck or Campion(or to use Penrith , maybe Jarrin or even Yeo who was considered by sone here to be a poor man’s Mannering, no disrespect to Simon but that’s not the case) being identified and developed through our system

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

I said talent and development they have both in spades. Everyone that makes first grade has talent, we have been poor at developing it, and imo often poor at evaluating it. We like the flashy talent that shows out at lower grades, but often these kids don’t learn resilience abd the good habits around little things. Hard to imagine (for me) someone like Luck or Campion(or to use Penrith , maybe Jarrin or even Yeo who was considered by sone here to be a poor man’s Mannering, no disrespect to Simon but that’s not the case) being identified and developed through our system

It's simple: we stick to our system and enable players like TMM and Metcalf to showcase their skills in the absence of SJ.

The 2023 plan, when executed correctly, is perfect, even if the opposition anticipates it. We will be a formidable threat in the competition once again.

The defensive pattern needs to return back to how Morgan had us shaped, whoever has our defensive blueprint for this year needs to adjust things a bit. We used to care about our line I want that back.

 

[JJ]

It's simple: we stick to our system and enable players like TMM and Metcalf to showcase their skills in the absence of SJ.

The 2023 plan, when executed correctly, is perfect, even if the opposition anticipates it. We will be a formidable threat in the competition once again.

The defensive pattern needs to return back to how Morgan had us shaped, whoever has our defensive blueprint for this year needs to adjust things a bit. We used to care about our line I want that back.

Sure, but TMM and Metcalfe are hardly Cleary, Luiai and Burton. Neither were developed by us, and TMM has been around long enough that we know he’s the definition of a journeyman.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Sure, but TMM and Metcalfe are hardly Cleary, Luiai and Burton. Neither were developed by us, and TMM has been around long enough that we know he’s the definition of a journeyman.

A journeyman perhaps, but not by his choice.

TMM's career faced a significant setback when he suffered an injury that forced him into early retirement. It takes immense courage to return to such a demanding sport. The NRL does not provide adequate protection for players when it comes to concussions and head injuries, an issue that @sup42 highlighted in a previous post on another thread. It was disgusting that the officials did nothing when TMM got hit high and late several times this season.

TMM hasn't had enough game time to properly establish himself yet. With SJ out of the mix, we should see him develop more effectively, gaining cohesion by playing consistently week in and week out.

I have Metcalf @ 7 & Martin @ 6 for 2025 where we should see less interruption with Martin's development.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I'm happy for the halves to be TMM/CHT or Metcalf, but honestly, I have significant reservations about how that will go. TMM hasn't played a single full season in the NRL (or very close) and he debuted in 2016. 2018 he spent a reasonable chunk on the bench of his 23 games. We saw this year, he had the big few games but couldn't sustain it (to be fair, neither could we). Definitely happy to back him in to do it, but consistency will be an issue.

I think CHT and Metcalf would be great next to an in-form SJ, an established half etc, and when TMM was in good form, CHT was good value - made his tackles, is a talented ball player, can run the ball etc too. Metcalf ticks those boxes. Metcalf would probably get first go at the 6, but as sup says, he can't kick and needs to. I also have a problem if it's any of those three, but especially TMM/Metcalf, that we don't have a goalkicker - unless Pompey plays, and Tuaupiki. You can't go through the season with a 50-60% goalkicker who isn't a natural. You can practice it all you want, but if you're not a lifer goal-kicker, you're not going from 55 to 75%. There's not enough hours in a day to practice.

Of course, it would be great to see TMM/CHT for the rest of the year (or Metcalf) to get a jump on what we want to do next year, but that isn't going to happen...largely for ceremonial reasons. It's a real shame. I get it, and I don't want SJ to finish in NSW Cup either, but I think we miss something by not having those guys playing more together and learning. Could we play SJ at 14 once the season is over (it already is, basically) to allow both?

 

[Big Marn]

I said talent and development they have both in spades. Everyone that makes first grade has talent, we have been poor at developing it, and imo often poor at evaluating it. We like the flashy talent that shows out at lower grades, but often these kids don’t learn resilience abd the good habits around little things. Hard to imagine (for me) someone like Luck or Campion(or to use Penrith , maybe Jarrin or even Yeo who was considered by sone here to be a poor man’s Mannering, no disrespect to Simon but that’s not the case) being identified and developed through our system

To your point, i think the lack of a dirty work player coming through the NZ system (due to the evaluators going for flash) led to the signing of Jackson Ford.

 

[Meth]

The lack of a quality kicking game is a massive issue.

 

[Big Marn]

Jamal Fogarty has a great boot on him. Caused our FBs issues. Locked up till end of 2026 tho.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The lack of a quality kicking game is a massive issue.

I have to be honest, I don't remember that being an issue whilst SJ was out. I remember thinking it would be, but I never really saw it...willing to accept, however, that I am not potentially seeing stats that bare out that it was a massive issue.

I'll trust that Webster will come out next year and have a plan, that builds on the significant amount of things that went wrong this year. One of them, clearly, is we need our injury toll to reduce. We need combinations to build, but that also needs to come with the coach allowing them to build and solidarity in selection, identifying the right guys who are going to contribute to the right game plan.

We definitely need more speed, I see all these athletes the other teams have and it makes me jealous. It's definitely our backline that worries me, from 1 to 7.

Spose it's one bonus that there's no major worries about our forward pack, there is quality all over the show there.

 

[hitro]

There must be some budget now to buy a player from Aus. What about someone who is a good goal kicker and centre/winger, I don't imagine Zac Lomax is available but for example someone like him

 

[Matua]

To your point, i think the lack of a dirty work player coming through the NZ system (due to the evaluators going for flash) led to the signing of Jackson Ford.

I'm sure there's players in the NZ system just as ineffective as Ford.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

There must be some budget now to buy a player from Aus. What about someone who is a good goal kicker and centre/winger, I don't imagine Zac Lomax is available but for example someone like him

Every club has done it's best to tie up and secure most their youngsters with the expansion talks on the horizon. Not many left to choose from. It's time to stay in house and build our own.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

There must be some budget now to buy a player from Aus. What about someone who is a good goal kicker and centre/winger, I don't imagine Zac Lomax is available but for example someone like him

Dunno who it'd be, but a speedy winger who can kick goals would be a godsend.

Can't imagine Zac Lomax is thrilled he's going to the Eels, incidentally.

 

[Big Marn]

Can Taupiki only play the one position? I feel like theres a spot for him in the starting line up if he just learned another position to at least a half decent level. He seems speedy enough to exist on wing and taking the ball up wouldnt be different than what he already does. Plus he would be a winger who can catch a high ball.
His kicking may have been the difference in a lot of games this year.
He definitely won us the Penrith game with his goal kicking.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Can Taupiki only play the one position? I feel like theres a spot for him in the starting line up if he just learned another position to at least a half decent level. He seems speedy enough to exist on wing and taking the ball up wouldnt be different than what he already does. Plus he would be a winger who can catch a high ball.
His kicking may have been the difference in a lot of games this year.
He definitely won us the Penrith game with his goal kicking.

Perhaps it’s a case of Webster thinking he has to have big bodies on the wing to fit his yardage game plan. Fullback heading to wing is fairly common today, for example in our game in the weekend Hopoate and Savage both played wing after coming through at fullback