Eels Appoint Brad Arthur as Head Coach (Part Deux)

[Bazal]

I have never said we didn't have plodders this year.

That may be others but not me, I've said it for awhile our defense is lacklustre to say the least and we are more then Moses and Evans off being very very competitive.

Both potentially good, neither are consistently good, do we at Parra really need more unfulfilled talent? I have hope for Moses at Parra under BA, but a big body isn't all we need we need 2 big bodies or one of Graham's stature, a hooker and a hulking forward.

If you think having people like Moeroa, Matagi, Mannah and Pritchard in our starting side is gonna make us compete with the top teams you are actually dreaming. That's not to mention Alvaro also.

It was a general comment that teams always seem to have more plodders when they lose....

Our forward pack is so underrated on here, honestly. It's not best in the comp level, but add Evans and it is easily good enough to win a competition with the right spine.

Brown is a beast who runs hard, hits hard, and has an offload and a pass in his game
Vave is a 10m a run forward who weighs in at 117kg so there's one of your "hulking bodies" right there. Add Evans, another 10m a run forward, and our bench packs a huge punch with Edwards on there as well.
Mannah is a hard worker who lays a quality platform when the side has more than 1 set in the first 12 mins
Matagi runs and hits hard and has an offload, much like Brown
Edwards is a great edge runner and adds important energy to our defence
Manu Ma'u is arguably the best edge forward in the NRL, along with Cordner
Moeroa admittedly has been a disappointment with his inconsistency but he balances it by being one of our better defenders

People slate Alvaro but he would be top 17 at most NRL clubs, starting at several, and he will be a perennial 18th man next season at this rate. He made 40 tackles off the bench yesterday at time where we were getting absolutely slaughtered, and early in the season he made 100m in 25 mins when we were on top of Manly. Because he doesn't come on and make 250m at 25m a run he's a plodder? Ridiculous logic.

Too many Eels fans think we need a side with more superstars than NRL quality players. It's simply not possible unless you cheat (tried that) or develop them yourself and can therefore get them for less (tough when you go through a new head coach every two seasons). We have plenty of NRL quality forwards, what we do need is one big body like Klemmer or Vaughan. Of course, none of those are available, and they don't come along very often. Evans won't live up to that standard, but he does a pretty good job and if BA can get him taking on more work with the ball he'll be a fantastic signing.

You also forget that you need a balance in the pack. Sure, the Sharks have Fifita, but they have Matt Prior starting next to him. "Hulking bodies" tend to be poor defenders, which is why you need players like Mannah and Alvaro in your pack to cover the missing defensive work. What good is it making plenty of metres if you get cut to ribbons up the middle because your fat lazy props have tired themselves out running over merkins? Both Alvaro and Mannah can and do make plenty of hard metres as well, that these "hulking bodies" tend to shirk. Taumololo did absolutely nothing against us in a well beaten pack, because no one was making the tough runs to give him something to work off. He only started to make metres when the momentum swung.

It's all well and good to say "we need four big hard running props", but the game doesn't actually work that way. Most quality sides have two, and a very good lock. You need good defenders to balance these guys out, because most of them can't tackle very well. That's why for every Hulk you have a Mannah or Alvaro. Or a Prior. Or a Tolman. Or a Shannen Boyd. Or any number of props who are picked primarily for their defence. Some sides are lucky. The Dogs have Graham and Tolman who are both very good defenders as well as very good attackers. The Roosters props as well are very good defenders. But usually, you need that balance or you sacrifice your defence.

 

[Bazal]

A tier above what we have now.

And Peats is very close to origin.

Lets be honest you can't compare what we have this year to what we had last year.

Paulo will not ever be a rep player because he's a lazy defender.

Peats is a rep player though. Hopefully we can entice him back. He'd make a massive difference to our side in its weakest position.

 

[Eelementary]

It was a general comment that teams always seem to have more plodders when they lose....

Our forward pack is so underrated on here, honestly. It's not best in the comp level, but add Evans and it is easily good enough to win a competition with the right spine.

Brown is a beast who runs hard, hits hard, and has an offload and a pass in his game
Vave is a 10m a run forward who weighs in at 117kg so there's one of your "hulking bodies" right there. Add Evans, another 10m a run forward, and our bench packs a huge punch with Edwards on there as well.
Mannah is a hard worker who lays a quality platform when the side has more than 1 set in the first 12 mins
Matagi runs and hits hard and has an offload, much like Brown
Edwards is a great edge runner and adds important energy to our defence
Manu Ma'u is arguably the best edge forward in the NRL, along with Cordner
Moeroa admittedly has been a disappointment with his inconsistency but he balances it by being one of our better defenders

People slate Alvaro but he would be top 17 at most NRL clubs, starting at several, and he will be a perennial 18th man next season at this rate. He made 40 tackles off the bench yesterday at time where we were getting absolutely slaughtered, and early in the season he made 100m in 25 mins when we were on top of Manly. Because he doesn't come on and make 250m at 25m a run he's a plodder? Ridiculous logic.

Too many Eels fans think we need a side with more superstars than NRL quality players. It's simply not possible unless you cheat (tried that) or develop them yourself and can therefore get them for less (tough when you go through a new head coach every two seasons). We have plenty of NRL quality forwards, what we do need is one big body like Klemmer or Vaughan. Of course, none of those are available, and they don't come along very often. Evans won't live up to that standard, but he does a pretty good job and if BA can get him taking on more work with the ball he'll be a fantastic signing.

You also forget that you need a balance in the pack. Sure, the Sharks have Fifita, but they have Matt Prior starting next to him. "Hulking bodies" tend to be poor defenders, which is why you need players like Mannah and Alvaro in your pack to cover the missing defensive work. What good is it making plenty of metres if you get cut to ribbons up the middle because your fat lazy props have tired themselves out running over merkins? Both Alvaro and Mannah can and do make plenty of hard metres as well, that these "hulking bodies" tend to shirk. Taumololo did absolutely nothing against us in a well beaten pack, because no one was making the tough runs to give him something to work off. He only started to make metres when the momentum swung.

It's all well and good to say "we need four big hard running props", but the game doesn't actually work that way. Most quality sides have two, and a very good lock. You need good defenders to balance these guys out, because most of them can't tackle very well. That's why for every Hulk you have a Mannah or Alvaro. Or a Prior. Or a Tolman. Or a Shannen Boyd. Or any number of props who are picked primarily for their defence. Some sides are lucky. The Dogs have Graham and Tolman who are both very good defenders as well as very good attackers. The Roosters props as well are very good defenders. But usually, you need that balance or you sacrifice your defence.

Really well thought out post.

I agree with it all - but I just can't help but think that we need someone in the JWH mould.

Brown is close, but lacks the size.

Vave has the size, and the aggression, but not the fitness.

I truly believe that if we had a JWH starting with Mannah up front, we would rarely lose the battle in the middle.

But you're right - we do have a pretty handy pack.

 

[Djay]

It was a general comment that teams always seem to have more plodders when they lose....

Our forward pack is so underrated on here, honestly. It's not best in the comp level, but add Evans and it is easily good enough to win a competition with the right spine.

Brown is a beast who runs hard, hits hard, and has an offload and a pass in his game
Vave is a 10m a run forward who weighs in at 117kg so there's one of your "hulking bodies" right there. Add Evans, another 10m a run forward, and our bench packs a huge punch with Edwards on there as well.
Mannah is a hard worker who lays a quality platform when the side has more than 1 set in the first 12 mins
Matagi runs and hits hard and has an offload, much like Brown
Edwards is a great edge runner and adds important energy to our defence
Manu Ma'u is arguably the best edge forward in the NRL, along with Cordner
Moeroa admittedly has been a disappointment with his inconsistency but he balances it by being one of our better defenders

People slate Alvaro but he would be top 17 at most NRL clubs, starting at several, and he will be a perennial 18th man next season at this rate. He made 40 tackles off the bench yesterday at time where we were getting absolutely slaughtered, and early in the season he made 100m in 25 mins when we were on top of Manly. Because he doesn't come on and make 250m at 25m a run he's a plodder? Ridiculous logic.

Too many Eels fans think we need a side with more superstars than NRL quality players. It's simply not possible unless you cheat (tried that) or develop them yourself and can therefore get them for less (tough when you go through a new head coach every two seasons). We have plenty of NRL quality forwards, what we do need is one big body like Klemmer or Vaughan. Of course, none of those are available, and they don't come along very often. Evans won't live up to that standard, but he does a pretty good job and if BA can get him taking on more work with the ball he'll be a fantastic signing.

You also forget that you need a balance in the pack. Sure, the Sharks have Fifita, but they have Matt Prior starting next to him. "Hulking bodies" tend to be poor defenders, which is why you need players like Mannah and Alvaro in your pack to cover the missing defensive work. What good is it making plenty of metres if you get cut to ribbons up the middle because your fat lazy props have tired themselves out running over merkins? Both Alvaro and Mannah can and do make plenty of hard metres as well, that these "hulking bodies" tend to shirk. Taumololo did absolutely nothing against us in a well beaten pack, because no one was making the tough runs to give him something to work off. He only started to make metres when the momentum swung.

It's all well and good to say "we need four big hard running props", but the game doesn't actually work that way. Most quality sides have two, and a very good lock. You need good defenders to balance these guys out, because most of them can't tackle very well. That's why for every Hulk you have a Mannah or Alvaro. Or a Prior. Or a Tolman. Or a Shannen Boyd. Or any number of props who are picked primarily for their defence. Some sides are lucky. The Dogs have Graham and Tolman who are both very good defenders as well as very good attackers. The Roosters props as well are very good defenders. But usually, you need that balance or you sacrifice your defence.

I am sorry but I simply do not agree, it is more then Evans a a good spine off winning the comp, I would love to be proven wrong but I just feel we need another massive body.

Matagi and Mannah would be good if they had a monster next to them, you can't have 2 its hard enough to get one, but both of them at the same time is simply not good enough for mine. That may be all well and good with Moeroa but he just hasn't gotten to where he should, I don't see him as a leader in defence like Scott was last year, he fails to impact any games at all.

I am sorry but I do not agree, he may make the 17 of the lower teams but in no way would he make a teams top 17 that is challenging for the title.

Evans may very well be a great signing and I hope he is, but he isn't gonna be enough on his own plain and simple, we need someone like you mentioned, and I fail to see where we get that from. And if we do not get one then I can't see how we become a genuine premiership threat.

I don't understand, we have lesser size bodies in Mannah and Alvaro who are supposedly good defenders along with Moeroa, yet we got carved up by 40 yesterday? Come on, we have no punch nor is our defence up to scracth, if our defence was like last years still I wouldn't even be concerned, but we aren't getting over the advantage line, if ever rarely, and we're getting carved up the middle more often then not, so my point is getting a big body can't be all that bad atleast maybe we will get some decent go forward.

I don't see where Tolman is a good attacker, his absolutely useless and is the last type of player we currently need. Anyways I don't agree with what you've said, you make good points but these supposed Mannahs and Alvaro's are super ineffective this year, we aren't defending well and we are not carving up in metres. So in turn I believe we need much more then Evans and we definitely need Peats.

I do not have answers as I struggle to see who can fill the void up front, happy to be proven wrong but I am quite concerned.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You're placing too much emphasis on one game. We have won five games this year, including three against current top eight teams.

In fact, three of the teams that beat us are still below us on the ladder. We are up to the back wheels in this competition.

 

[Kornstar]

Really well thought out post.

I agree with it all - but I just can't help but think that we need someone in the JWH mould.

Brown is close, but lacks the size.

Vave has the size, and the aggression, but not the fitness.

I truly believe that if we had a JWH starting with Mannah up front, we would rarely lose the battle in the middle.

But you're right - we do have a pretty handy pack.

I guarantee that if we had a JWH type player that he would be penalised and suspended constantly and everyone would whinge about it constantly!

 

[Eelementary]

I guarantee that if we had a JWH type player that he would be penalised and suspended constantly and everyone would whinge about it constantly!

Quite possibly.

I think we are lacking a big body in the middle who wins the collisions in defence in the middle; someone who is big enough and strong enough to help stop an opposition roll on.

I think once the Roosters got on top, our smaller, more mobile forwards were unable to halt their momentum.

It's our biggest weakness, imo.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Literally.

 

[Kornstar]

Quite possibly.

I think we are lacking a big body in the middle who wins the collisions in defence in the middle; someone who is big enough and string enough to help stop an opposition roll on.

I think once the Roosters got on top, our smaller, more mobile forwards were unable to halt their momentum.

It's our biggest weakness, imo.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just predicting the way our fans will react.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Just an observation....my feeling is that the style of play that BA uses relies very much on an 'organising half' (or just one who plays more directly)....and we don't have one. That's no knock on Norman.....it just a bugger that Foran didn't work out (for whatever reason).

 

[Wicked Witch Of The West]

I dont think brad knows how to use his forwards.

 

[Noise]

Just an observation....my feeling is that the style of play that BA uses relies very much on an 'organising half' (or just one who plays more directly)....and we don't have one. That's no knock on Norman.....it just a bugger that Foran didn't work out (for whatever reason).

I don't think Moses is that kind of player either

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I don't think Moses is that kind of player either

Yep

 

[EelsFan05]

Quite possibly.

I think we are lacking a big body in the middle who wins the collisions in defence in the middle; someone who is big enough and strong enough to help stop an opposition roll on.

I think once the Roosters got on top, our smaller, more mobile forwards were unable to halt their momentum.

It's our biggest weakness, imo.

I disagree to an extent. Our starting forwards ground us back into the game at 16-4 with only 25-30% (stand to be corrected on possession). A series of mistakes in the set straight after, starting with a poor kick by our reserve grade half and a penalty by a defensively poor impact prop, effectively destroyed the game. We most probably were never going to win but the pack did get us back into the game.

On another note Norman continues to make very poor decisions at crucial parts of games.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

I disagree to an extent. Our starting forwards ground us back into the game at 14-6 with only 25-30% (stand to be corrected on possession). A series of mistakes in the set straight after, starting with a poor kick by our half and a penalty by a defensively poor impact prop, effectively destroyed the game. We most probably were never going to win but the pack did get us back into the game.

On another note Norman continues to make very poor decisions at crucial parts of games.

Yep, after getting back into the game we gifted them two tries !!

While the Roosters were great and their pack definitely won the middle by a long way, stupid errors gave us no chance.

I thought a key turning point was our first set or so where Norman kicked on either the 3rd or 4th putting us into poor field position. We didn't see the ball for the next 10 minutes.

Also we were missing a few players.

 

[Eelementary]

I disagree to an extent. Our starting forwards ground us back into the game at 16-4 with only 25-30% (stand to be corrected on possession). A series of mistakes in the set straight after, starting with a poor kick by our reserve grade half and a penalty by a defensively poor impact prop, effectively destroyed the game. We most probably were never going to win but the pack did get us back into the game.

On another note Norman continues to make very poor decisions at crucial parts of games.

Just my opinion, of course - but I think a bigger prop to partner Mannah might have helped prevent the Roosters' momentum.

Errors and stupid passes cost us, but the Roosters murdered us in the ruck, and I don't think we had the size and power to compete.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Defence isn't about size, it's about agility and workrate to get in front of the runner and numbers into the tackle. Size is most useful in attack.

Obviously if you're too small you'll get overpowered by the biggest runners, but 105kg is big enough to stop anyone in the NRL.

 

[Twizzle]

defence is about technique, refer Nathan Brown's tackle

we do need a big Russell Packer type muther f**ker to bend the line a bit, some one to partner Kane Evans, Mannah and The VG are toilers and rack up good stats in defence and get paid accordingly, but we need a big bopper type merkin

 

[Eelementary]

Defence isn't about size, it's about agility and workrate to get in front of the runner and numbers into the tackle. Size is most useful in attack.

Obviously if you're too small you'll get overpowered by the biggest runners, but 105kg is big enough to stop anyone in the NRL.

I see what you're saying, but I still think we need bigger bodies.

 

[El Diablo]

why does the bald bastard never say jack about the atrocious refereeing?

it's no wonder they treat us like shit