What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Eels Salary Cap MK III

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Oh, they have legal advice. I know the lady who was (and probably still is) their counsel. She is sharp, and very decent. Whether their strategy is dictated by the legal advice they been given is another story.

They are trying to get as much leverage from the timing of these revelations as they can (i.e. mid-season, threats to directors etc with bugger all notice). High stakes poker, with a couple of extra cards in their back pocket.

Yes, but it appears they'd likely fold if we went All-In.
 
Messages
19,389
Yes, but it appears they'd likely fold if we went All-In.

Maybe. If we try to dispute the ultimate findings, we will have to challenge the code of conduct, and that will take time (and possibly not be successful). So I think they're simply adding to to the total cost of resistance, to make it more likely that we come to an agreed settlement with them. It could, of course, blow up in their face....but the odds are still with them.
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
Can someone explain to me the circumstances behind the NRL's request (to the court) for the 60 page doc to be confidential ? Why now are they so worried about leaks when they have kept their hands in their pockets and watched News Ltd go to town on us over the past few months ?
For what it's worth, the article where that was mentioned implied that the 60+ page notice included summary of Seward's 37 pages of evidence, which presumably makes accusations specific to the contract conditions (and amounts) of certain players over the past three years.

I'd imagine the NRL is seeking to keep that info confidential in order to protect the financial privacy of players who have done nothing wrong? The club has apparently now been given the full brief of evidence (i.e. the 60+ notice plus Seward's 37 pages and anything else that has contributed to the 60+ page breach report). I'd imagine the public will never see the breach notice.
 
Messages
42,876
Oh, they have legal advice. I know the lady who was (and probably still is) their counsel. She is sharp, and very decent. Whether their strategy is dictated by the legal advice they been given is another story.

They are trying to get as much leverage from the timing of these revelations as they can (i.e. mid-season, threats to directors etc with bugger all notice). High stakes poker, with a couple of extra cards in their back pocket.

Well this is what I've been getting at, and I've probably been over the limit since 2010. Shifting the penalty from a straight docking of points, to an inability to earn points while being 'non compliant' gives them great power. It's a nonsense that will haunt them. It only works in this particular situation. Get caught later, earlier, for more, for less...it leads to ridiculous penalties completely out of line with ours.
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,734
Oh, they have legal advice. I know the lady who was (and probably still is) their counsel. She is sharp, and very decent. Whether their strategy is dictated by the legal advice they been given is another story.

They are trying to get as much leverage from the timing of these revelations as they can (i.e. mid-season, threats to directors etc with bugger all notice). High stakes poker, with a couple of extra cards in their back pocket.

maybe gturd ignored her advice

They also chose that Tuesday as it was rep round and knew that parra couldn't get compliant in 4 days if we had to play this weekend
 

selkirk

Juniors
Messages
45
They want it kept confidential to only protect the star witness. They have guaranteed him it won't go public because he will be possibly prosecuted with fraud. It would seem as if he is the brown paper bag master. Accused of the same while at the dogs. If he has admitted his involvement in our cap then they should go back and look at his involvement with the dogs. Bet they don't. Gturd won't allow his club to be investigated I'm sure. Could we use this to blackmail him?
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
I still think the NRL are happy to help us get under the cap, as they had publically stated. If their doctor signs Watmough's retirement off as stemming from the new February injury, we are under the cap again and competing for points on Friday - which is what the NRL and their broadcast partners and sponsors want.

As for the points deduction, fine and deregistration of the named 5, I think any reduction will come as a result of the consideration of our response to the breach notice, rather than subsequent court action. If there have been errors in teh NRL's assertions that we can successfully argue against - particularly in relation to the three items claimed in the NRL statement other than compliance with salary cap amount - then we might come out with say an 8 (2x4?) point penalty, a smaller fine, and maybe just 3 or 4 deregistered directors/officials?

I still reckon that's a good result, and this team can make the finals #12-15.

The NRL also want 3 independent Driectors joining the PNRL Board in August, as part of the previously agreed governance changes. My understanding is that these directors are meant to be nominated by our Board, and not the NRL? Even if we lose the named 3 Directors before then in mid-June (without court challenge), the independent appointees will not have a majority on the PNRL Board.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,376
Oh, they have legal advice. I know the lady who was (and probably still is) their counsel. She is sharp, and very decent. Whether their strategy is dictated by the legal advice they been given is another story.

They are trying to get as much leverage from the timing of these revelations as they can (i.e. mid-season, threats to directors etc with bugger all notice). High stakes poker, with a couple of extra cards in their back pocket.

You think they've got a few left to play? Bollocks, they've laid down. Early even.
 
Messages
42,876
I don't know how solid our ground is. I don't know what rules we've broken. If I had to guess, I'd guess we're not completely innocent. But we're also not as guilty as the NRL claims.

If there's one thing that shits me, it's people who abuse their authority. And those who direct their anger where it's most convenient (and meets little resistance). OK, that's two things. I think the NRL thought they had an easy target in us. They thought they could hit us hard, and we'd fall into line to save our season. I couldn't be happier with the stance the club has taken.

f**k you Todd.
 

Sphagnum

Coach
Messages
13,069
Todd Greenberg and Paul Kent. Two of the dumbest merkins to ever walk the earth and they're probably on 400k+ a year. :lol:
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Maybe. If we try to dispute the ultimate findings, we will have to challenge the code of conduct, and that will take time (and possibly not be successful). So I think they're simply adding to to the total cost of resistance, to make it more likely that we come to an agreed settlement with them. It could, of course, blow up in their face....but the odds are still with them.

By All-In I meant to challenge the legitimacy of the entire salary cap. Until then it's just upping the stakes.

At the moment the NRL has got pocket Jacks and has just gone in hard on the Flop to scare us off with our 6 and 7 of Hearts...we still have the Turn and the River to come, but we're probably going to chase our Flush all the way to the end if need be. Plenty of cards to be dealt yet.
 
Last edited:

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
NRL leaks again http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...s-about-thirdparty-deals-20160508-gop83q.html

'Smoking gun' email reveals warning to Parramatta Eels officials about third-party deals

Date
May 8, 2016 - 10:25PM

Chris Barrett
Sports Writer

EXCLUSIVE

It's been called the smoking gun in the NRL's investigation into Parramatta and its contents can finally be revealed.

An email, sent by the club's then chief financial officer Ed Farish to chairman Steve Sharp, chief executive John Boulous and football manager Daniel Anderson last July, warns them of "exposures" around third-party deals for Anthony Watmough. The email also noted Farish's suspicions of a system of inflated invoices with club suppliers, and advises them to self-report to the NRL.

Obtained by Fairfax Media from a source close to the investigation, the details of Farish's urgent note to senior officials played a major part in the heavy sanctions handed down last week by the NRL.

Farish explains his concerns about Watmough's deals with ScoreCube – whose parent company Black Citrus had been signed by former CEO Scott Seward to a $200,000-plus contract to provide digital services to Parramatta – and PJ Promotions, a company owned by the father of public relations executive Tracy McKelligott, who was a club consultant from 2013 until last July.

The officials' failure to disclose the deals when they were made aware of them, along with damning transcripts of third-party agreements being discussed at recorded board meetings, were central to the investigators' case against the club and the five current officials implicated.

"Gents, on Monday the 20th of July [NRL salary cap auditor] Jamie L'Oste Brown is due to conduct a mid-year salary cap review," Farish wrote in the email, dated July 10, 2015, with the subject line 'TPA'.

"We've identified the following exposures around potential deals on TPAs. I'm anxious to ensure that everyone is on the same page in dealing with these. If a TPA is not registered and discovered, Jamie can refuse to make it cap exempt."

Under the heading of 'registered TPA' Farish continued: "TPAs are exempt from the cap under certain conditions. The main condition is that the company is not an associated entity. We have two TPAs registered for Anthony Watmough being ScoreCube $75,000 and PJ Promotions $50,000. ScoreCube is a 100 per cent subsidiary of Black Citrus who are a supplier of PNRL. Stephen Moss is the only director and the ScoreCube website is heavily branded Black Citrus.

"PJ Promotions are associated with [club consultant] Tracy. This condition is not as obvious as the Black Citrus connection but the NRL may query why a Newcastle-based promotion company want to spend $50,000-a-year for four years on Watmough. Tracy was promised reciprocal funding by Scott but has executed a TPA for four years with no matching funding.

"In summary, my major concerns are: ScoreCube TPA is easily connected to the club and even though it's approved at the moment the rules give the NRL ample room to reverse the decision. As a minimum I feel that we should self-report ScoreCube and flag that we have investigations ongoing."

The email, which was CC'd to the club's lawyer, John De Mestre, also raises issues with the club's relationships with suppliers including Zibara and E-Group Security, outlining Farish's suspicions that invoices had been inflated.

Fairfax Media has seen proof of the lucrative four-year arrangement between the Eels and Black Citrus, signed by Seward and Stephen Moss, the son of former Macquarie Bank executive Bill Moss, to start on January 1, 2015. The agreement states that the "PNRLC shall pay Black Citrus an annual fee of $221,996 plus GST paid in quarterly instalments of $55,499 plus GST" for digital services, digital advisory fees, a player management platform and a junior league licence.

The document notes that "no party may publicise in the media the existence of this Heads of Agreement or any of its terms". Parramatta directors have said privately that the board was not told by Seward of the deal.

Eels officials spent the weekend poring over hundreds of pages of transcripts from interviews conducted by NRL investigators, including evidence given by Seward and former team manager Jason Irvine.

Sources said they were not provided with a copy of McKelligott's voluntary interview and received only a statement from Seward dated May 2, the day before NRL chief Todd Greenberg announced the Eels' 12-point deduction and $1 million fine.

An NRL spokesman said: "Parramatta have been provided with the evidence that the NRL based its decision on."

Lawyers for Sharp, directors Tom Issa and Peter Serrao, Boulous and Anderson return to the NSW Supreme Court in Sydney for a hearing on Monday. They have argued they have not received procedural fairness from the NRL.

Ian Schubert, who is leading Parramatta's bid to be cleared as salary cap compliant in time for Friday's match against South Sydney, is also due to meet with L'Oste Brown on Monday.

Sharp, Boulous, Anderson and De Mestre did not return calls on Sunday.
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,021
It's not the NRL allegedly leaking it's their alleged source. ��. How poisonous is this former employee? How does he sleep at night? Better be just emails between him and the other person involved or it is inadmissible, in particular if produced by the source. Amateur hour again. Just a tip dopes. There is plenty of actus reus here must also prove the mens rea to prove the alleged offence. Hence why the GO5 are contesting the allegations. Must prove the GO5 had knowledge.
 
Last edited:

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,192
It's not the NRL allegedly leaking it's their alleged source. ��. How poisonous is this former employee? How does he sleep at night? Better be just emails between him and the other person involved or it is inadmissible, in particular if produced by the source. Amateur hour again. Just a tip dopes. There is plenty of actus reus here must also prove the mens rea to prove the alleged offence. Hence why the GO5 are contesting the allegations. Must prove the GO5 had knowledge.

I love it when you talk lawyer-speak. :ls:
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
It's not the NRL allegedly leaking it's their alleged source. ��. How poisonous is this former employee? How does he sleep at night? Better be just emails between him and the other person involved or it is inadmissible. Amateur hour again. Just a tip dopes. There is plenty of actus reus here must also prove the mens rea to prove the alleged offence. Hence why the GO5 are contesting the allegations.

I'm guessing the email was sent from an email account owned by the Parramatta Leagues Club (the club owns all emails of it's employees). I doubt any of the 4 people involved had the authority of the club to distribute that email to a third party.

On your other point, I'm not sure there is anything in NRL rules that stipulates that "mens rea" needs to be involved for there to be an offence. After all, in the past, if clubs have inadvertently gone over the salary cap at the end of a season then they have just been fined anyway, even if there was no knowledge or intent to actually breaching the salary cap. So having said all that I would say that the NRL could just say that breaching the salary cap is a strict liability offence.
 
Last edited:

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,021
I'm guessing the email was sent from an email account owned by the Parramatta Leagues Club (the club owns all emails of it's employees). I doubt any of the 4 people involved had the authority of the club to distribute that email to a third party.

On your other point, I'm not sure there is anything in NRL rules that stipulates that "mens rea" needs to be involved for there to be an offence. After all, in the past, if clubs have inadvertently gone over the salary cap at the end of a season then they have just been fined anyway, even if there was no knowledge or intent to actually breaching the salary cap. So having said all that I would say that the NRL could just say that breaching the salary cap is a strict liability offence.

True but dismissing directors from their roles isn't.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
True but dismissing directors from their roles isn't.

The 3 of the Incompetent 5 who received that email indicated in the above article would have to come up with something extrordinary to argue that they didnt have knowledge of the potential cap breach and that they werent either negligent or reckless in their duties as NRL club administrators in reporting the potential cap breach to the NRL. There's 3 of the 4 main "Mens Rea" elements of an offence right there.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top