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Eels Salary Cap Mk V

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
actually they have broken the law by lying to the NRL,
Seward has knowingly admitted to signing a false Stat Dec which is a criminal offense.

http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/what-happens-if-i-lie-on-a-statutory-declaration-form/

That's what I said...

but they aren't actually laws, not in the sense that you can go to jail for breaking an NRL Law. It's if in breaking that rule/law you actually are committing a real crime is when they can get you.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
A business can't defraud itself so if the business (read directors) had the purview to and intended for the transaction to only be advantageous to the business and it was done in ordinary course of business (even though it isn't really ordinary circumstances) then it would be difficult to even argue misappropriation, i.e. if the directors or others got zero advantage out of it, then they haven't misappropriated the funds. Bad management doesn't constitute misappropriation. So where the money was intended to wind up is vital. The only other case for misappropriation for the members is if payments to players aren't accurately depicted in the financial report, but are any of the members really going to care (who am I kidding? It's Parramatta).

And defrauding the NRL competition at large is an interesting legal argument. Unfortunately it's also tenuous and unlikely to be challenged.

Have the actions caused a loss to anyone?
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
You can go to jail for providing a false information in a statutory declaration...
Yes exactly. but if you say to the NRL, "We're totally under the cap" but you aren't, there's no crime there. Falsifying a Stat Dec is a criminal offense, not breaking an NRL rule.
 
Messages
19,393
Have the actions caused a loss to anyone?

they don't strictly have to have caused a realised loss. Intent to obtain a benefit is sufficient. e.g. if you fraudulently obtain someone's lottery ticket, the fact that you don't win the lottery doesn't absolve you. It would certainly affect damages in an action in tort.

In this case though, the alleged actions (of some individuals) could easily be construed as fraudulently misappropriating members funds (i.e. spending members funds for purposes not authorised, and using deception to achieve that). While the funds didn't go into the pockets of the people who allegedly arranged the transactions, those people arguably stood to benefit in terms of their future value in the labour market.

But, if anything, they'll go for whatever is easiest to make 'stick'.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,375
Yes exactly. but if you say to the NRL, "We're totally under the cap" but you aren't, there's no crime there. Falsifying a Stat Dec is a criminal offense, not breaking an NRL rule.

If you provide a statutory declaration to the NRL indicating that you believe you are under salary the cap, when you know that you're not, then you would have provided a false statement...
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
If you provide a statutory declaration to the NRL indicating that you believe you are under salary the cap, when you know that you're not, then you would have provided a false statement...
Yes I know, I've already said that... But not every communication with the NRL is via Statutory Declaration.

I'm just trying to point out that NRL rules are not enforceable by law, i.e. It's not illegal to breach the salary cap, but the methods of doing so could be illegal, but not the breach itself.
 

eel01s

Bench
Messages
3,410
I hope Seward et al cops the full force of the law. Just like players with off field issues, a line needs to be drawn in the sand.
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
I hope Seward et al cops the full force of the law. Just like players with off field issues, a line needs to be drawn in the sand.
If there have been laws broken, it'll be interesting to see to what extent they're punished.

But you can almost guarantee if they arrest anyone, they'd have a strong enough case for a conviction, Not arresting anyone is better than arresting someone and not being able to make it stick.

So they'll be hesitant to actually go through a court case without having concrete evidence, given the magnifying glass that is trained on the situation.
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
Fair enough I guess, but I don't really get it though..

I gave a definition for fraud, cause no one seemed to know what it really was, and I let you know where I got the information from, cause that's what you're supposed to do. I know you guys aren't used to that here..
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...deals-at-parramatta-eels-20160714-gq5ngl.html

NRL targets agents over Jarryd Hayne, Lee Mossop deals at Parramatta Eels
Date
July 14, 2016 - 4:58PM
Adrian Proszenko and Kate McClymont

A $20,000 payment from Parramatta directly to Wayne Beavis has raised a fresh cloud over the future of the veteran player agent, in a development that could affect his chances of negotiating an NRL contract for star client Jarryd Hayne.

The NRL has finalised its sanctions against the Eels for systematically rorting the salary cap, including a $1 million fine, the stripping of 12 competition points and the cancellation of registrations of the so-called "gang of five" administrators.

Beavis said words to the effect of, 'I'm looking after Lee Mossop. I've just gone over to England, he's coming out. Where's his house? Where's his car?'

However, the governing body is now turning its focus onto the role of player agents – and potentially players – in the next phase of its investigation.

The unreported $50,000 for Mossop came from Irvine's personal bank account.

Irvine admitted to the NRL that his account was flush with money from a supplier, Green Options, which had inflated invoices to the club and then sent back the excess money to Irvine to pay players.

On February 5, 2015, a frustrated Beavis emailed Mossop about the expected payments. "I am chasing like a greyhound … Irvy tells me the bank at this end are saying the account details you provided are wrong and the transfer keeps bouncing," Beavis wrote.

A week later Mossop informed Irvine that $15,000 had arrived. "How many separate payments are you going to do it in?" Mossop wanted to know.

Seward also told NRL investigators that towards the end of 2013 he received a call from Paul Sutton, who represented Corey Norman.

"Where the f---'s my money? It's been promised to me," Seward claims Sutton said to him in one phone call.

Seward said he asked then recruitment manager Peter Nolan if the club owed Sutton $10,000.

According to Seward, Nolan replied: "Yes, we do, it's the only way we could get him [Norman] to the club."

Seward said that in November 2013 Nolan gave him a document that showed Sutton was to get $10,000 over and above his management fee for getting Norman to the club.

No evidence was given about the $10,000 being paid, and Sutton vehemently denied knowing anything about it. "I honestly don't know anything about it. It's news to me," he told Fairfax Media.

Beavis declined to comment and Nolan did not return calls.

In the case of Hayne, it is alleged the cross-code star was paid $450,000 for seasons 2014 and 2015, even though he was released by the club in the latter year to pursue his NFL dream with the San Francisco 49ers.

It is alleged that, in total, Hayne was promised $465,000 in payments made with the intention to circumvent the salary cap.

"Beavis said words to the effect of, 'I've got a heads of agreement … that Jarryd's owed $225,000 a year,' " Seward said in his statement.

"Beavis showed me a copy of the head of agreement between Hayne and the club."

The Eels have signalled their intention to re-sign Hayne, potentially for the remainder of the current season, now the former NSW Blues and Kangaroos fullback is a free agent. Hayne quit the 49ers with a view to representing Fiji in rugby sevens at the Olympics, but he missed the cut for the Rio Games.

He has previously stated his desire to rejoin the Eels if he was to return to the NRL, and the club could free the salary cap space required by granting troubled former skipper Kieran Foran a release.

However, the NRL may yet question Hayne over any knowledge of the off-the-book payments, while the Agent Accreditation Committee has the power to revoke the accreditation of managers complicit in salary cap cheating.

Powerful managers Isaac Moses, David Riolo and George Mimis were suspended for six months for their roles in the Melbourne Storm salary cap scandal.
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
Fair enough I guess, but I don't really get it though..

I gave a definition for fraud, cause no one seemed to know what it really was, and I let you know where I got the information from, cause that's what you're supposed to do. I know you guys aren't used to that here..

I laugh my ass off every time it is referenced!

I'm assuming it is because using law.com to someone in the law is akin to using Wikipedia and stating it as 100% fact.

I guess it's all about context.
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
I laugh my ass off every time it is referenced!

I'm assuming it is because using law.com to someone in the law is akin to using Wikipedia and stating it as 100% fact.

I guess it's all about context.
It's a legal dictionary, and legal resource site..

We have a lot of lawyers here on LU do we? Maybe I should have gone to totallylegitLUmembersapprovedlawsite.com?

I was getting the definition of a fricken legal term, where else was I gonna go?
 

ash411

Bench
Messages
3,411
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...deals-at-parramatta-eels-20160714-gq5ngl.html

NRL targets agents over Jarryd Hayne, Lee Mossop deals at Parramatta Eels
Date
July 14, 2016 - 4:58PM
Adrian Proszenko and Kate McClymont

A $20,000 payment from Parramatta directly to Wayne Beavis has raised a fresh cloud over the future of the veteran player agent, in a development that could affect his chances of negotiating an NRL contract for star client Jarryd Hayne.

The NRL has finalised its sanctions against the Eels for systematically rorting the salary cap, including a $1 million fine, the stripping of 12 competition points and the cancellation of registrations of the so-called "gang of five" administrators.

Beavis said words to the effect of, 'I'm looking after Lee Mossop. I've just gone over to England, he's coming out. Where's his house? Where's his car?'

However, the governing body is now turning its focus onto the role of player agents – and potentially players – in the next phase of its investigation.

The unreported $50,000 for Mossop came from Irvine's personal bank account.

Irvine admitted to the NRL that his account was flush with money from a supplier, Green Options, which had inflated invoices to the club and then sent back the excess money to Irvine to pay players.

On February 5, 2015, a frustrated Beavis emailed Mossop about the expected payments. "I am chasing like a greyhound … Irvy tells me the bank at this end are saying the account details you provided are wrong and the transfer keeps bouncing," Beavis wrote.

A week later Mossop informed Irvine that $15,000 had arrived. "How many separate payments are you going to do it in?" Mossop wanted to know.

Seward also told NRL investigators that towards the end of 2013 he received a call from Paul Sutton, who represented Corey Norman.

"Where the f---'s my money? It's been promised to me," Seward claims Sutton said to him in one phone call.

Seward said he asked then recruitment manager Peter Nolan if the club owed Sutton $10,000.

According to Seward, Nolan replied: "Yes, we do, it's the only way we could get him [Norman] to the club."

Seward said that in November 2013 Nolan gave him a document that showed Sutton was to get $10,000 over and above his management fee for getting Norman to the club.

No evidence was given about the $10,000 being paid, and Sutton vehemently denied knowing anything about it. "I honestly don't know anything about it. It's news to me," he told Fairfax Media.

Beavis declined to comment and Nolan did not return calls.

In the case of Hayne, it is alleged the cross-code star was paid $450,000 for seasons 2014 and 2015, even though he was released by the club in the latter year to pursue his NFL dream with the San Francisco 49ers.

It is alleged that, in total, Hayne was promised $465,000 in payments made with the intention to circumvent the salary cap.

"Beavis said words to the effect of, 'I've got a heads of agreement … that Jarryd's owed $225,000 a year,' " Seward said in his statement.

"Beavis showed me a copy of the head of agreement between Hayne and the club."

The Eels have signalled their intention to re-sign Hayne, potentially for the remainder of the current season, now the former NSW Blues and Kangaroos fullback is a free agent. Hayne quit the 49ers with a view to representing Fiji in rugby sevens at the Olympics, but he missed the cut for the Rio Games.

He has previously stated his desire to rejoin the Eels if he was to return to the NRL, and the club could free the salary cap space required by granting troubled former skipper Kieran Foran a release.

However, the NRL may yet question Hayne over any knowledge of the off-the-book payments, while the Agent Accreditation Committee has the power to revoke the accreditation of managers complicit in salary cap cheating.

Powerful managers Isaac Moses, David Riolo and George Mimis were suspended for six months for their roles in the Melbourne Storm salary cap scandal.
Did you see the video at the top of the page? It was Benji Marshall saying that we don't have the cap space to fit Hayne in for the rest of the season, and shouldn't be allowed to sign him.

Looks like Benji is moonlighting as a salary cap auditor and accountant.
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
It's a legal dictionary, and legal resource site..

We have a lot of lawyers here on LU do we? Maybe I should have gone to totallylegitLUmembersapprovedlawsite.com?

I was getting the definition of a fricken legal term, where else was I gonna go?

Are you suggesting because one is on a League forum that they can't be in law? I think you will find there are some in here where it is their field or there abouts.

Like I said, context. is there a possibility that there is a generic definition of fraud but due to the law being ridiculously complex that the general interpretation that you used maybe wasn't correct for the circumstance you were arguing?

I wouldn't get upset about it, it's the Internet and sometimes you get shit on when you don't think it's warranted, but shit happens and you just laugh it off. It's not that important.
 

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