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Elliott cleaning house

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
And obviously Elliot as the head coach of the Warriors, told Ackland his job wasn't to win under 20's comps, but to produce 1st graders. So you are just plain wrong saying that it isn't Ackland's job to produce 1st graders. If he has been told it is, it is.

I have trouble with this..

Ackland has a bunch of raw talented kids (some are still at school) and he has to get them ready for FG ?

I think they ill naturally progress to FG if they are any good.
SJ and Locke are good examples of players he held back, they wernt ready.

I think the guy is a pretty astute judge of talent and would know those kids as well as their parents..

anyways, hope Stace tells Elliott and co to take a leap when they try their bully boy tactics..
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
I have trouble with this..

Ackland has a bunch of raw talented kids (some are still at school) and he has to get them ready for FG ?

I think they ill naturally progress to FG if they are any good.
SJ and Locke are good examples of players he held back, they wernt ready.

I think the guy is a pretty astute judge of talent and would know those kids as well as their parents..

anyways, hope Stace tells Elliott and co to take a leap when they try their bully boy tactics..

Can't see it. I think that is why he was appointed.
 

LeagueNut

First Grade
Messages
6,980
This is where you and I disagree. I'd give up 20, under 20 permierships for just one 1st Grade title.
Completely agree.

And obviously Elliot as the head coach of the Warriors, told Ackland his job wasn't to win under 20's comps, but to produce 1st graders. So you are just plain wrong saying that it isn't Ackland's job to produce 1st graders. If he has been told it is, it is.
I think this was the problem - Ackland's job should have been to produce reserve grade players, with the odd exceptional case that can jump straight to first grade. The current U20s setup makes it bloody hard to produce "ready" first graders, the logical pathway is through a tougher comp like NSW Cup but (for whatever reason) that wasn't often the case.

I think the appointment of a rookie coach for the U20s and a more seasoned "career" coach to the Vulcans in 2014 shows the direction we're heading towards - and it's long overdue IMO.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Is there any evidence for this split between Ackers & ME or it all rumour?
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,721
Wouldn't the smart move been to make Ackland the Vulcan's coach, so he could still identify talent for the U20's, or even just leave him as U20's coach, and whomever was coaching the Vulcan's got first pick of the talent available.

Either way, its the Warriors loss and the Bulldogs gain.
 

Fufu Andronez

First Grade
Messages
8,464
Wouldn't the smart move been to make Ackland the Vulcan's coach, so he could still identify talent for the U20's, or even just leave him as U20's coach, and whomever was coaching the Vulcan's got first pick of the talent available.

Either way, its the Warriors loss and the Bulldogs gain.

What are you talking about? How is it a bulldogs gain?
 

Fufu Andronez

First Grade
Messages
8,464
Ackland's unfinished business with NZ league

Last updated 05:00 15/09/2013
CHRIS BARCLAY
JASON OXENHAM/Fairfax Media

John Ackland fended off interest from rival NRL clubs to commit to fostering league in New Zealand - through the newly created role of national game development manager.
A noted talent scout and the most successful coach in the six-year history of the NRL's under-20s competition, Ackland announced in June that he was quitting his post as the Junior Warriors mentor due, primarily, to irreconcilable differences with first-grade coach Matt Elliott.
Elliott's belief that the club's capable Holden Cup players should be incorporated in the Auckland Vulcans reserve grade team to aid their development compromised Ackland's ability to win a third title, although the under-20 team kept their hopes alive with a 20-18 elimination final victory over South Sydney in Sydney on Friday night.
Ackland's career move to the New Zealand Rugby League was announced last Monday, alleviating fears the former Auckland-based scout for the Canterbury Bulldogs might rejoin the club.
He admitted there had been approaches from NRL clubs but the lure of still playing a part in the code's development meant staying in New Zealand.
"There was [interest from clubs] but I don't see why everyone involved in rugby league should have to leave New Zealand," he said.
Ackland explained his brief was to formulate and implement ways of growing league throughout the country, from grass roots level.
"I'm sort of a low performance manager," he smiled, after watching his last under-20s squad recover from a 14-4 deficit to stay alive. "I'll be helping out the coaches and providing a bit of resourcing."
Ideally, Ackland won't assume his new position until after Grand Final day on October 6, and his players are determined to ensure his second tenure at the Warriors ends on a successful note.
"John's done a lot for our team. The boys have talked about trying to get this one for him," said halfback Mason Lino, who joined the team in 2011.
Ackland claimed his second title that year, but was coy on whether this roster were capable of emulating the feats of their predecessors in 2010-11.
"They're all different teams, this is a very young team," he said.
He calculates that only three or so will be ineligible in 2014.
The squad's inexperience means Ackland does not expect many of the squad to graduate to the NRL, although he would not be surprised if fullback David Fusitua was given a chance, despite Elliott having plenty of outside back options.
Fusitua, who scored the Warriors' opening try on Friday, was a "class act", Ackland said.
"I think he's just starting to appreciate how good he is. He's one of those kids who probably didn't realise just how good he can be."


[FONT=.Helvetica NeueUI]http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/9166545/Acklands-unfinished-business-with-NZ-league[/FONT]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Izz

Bench
Messages
3,925
Is there any evidence for this split between Ackers & ME or it all rumour?
No official statements, but plenty of anecdotal evidence. The rift was referenced in a few newspaper articles and nobody from Warriors has denied it. Plus there was that email Ackland's brother sent out (quoted somewhere here on the forum), which sounded very bitter.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Thanks Izz. I think Ackland will be ideal in his new role. Well done NZRL.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
I would of thought that a player of Packer's ability would have been a high priority to keep. Does anyone think for a second that Wayne Bennett doesn't know exactly what he is getting? He took weyman and turned him into a rhino. I wouldnt be surprised if he does the same thing with packer. They signed him for 4 years, they aren't sheepish.

All of the systems and big talk mean nothing when you can't sit down with a bloke like Packer and come to an agreement on how to get the best out of him. You cleanout blokes that are under size, or slow or have no footwork. You can't fix those problems, you can sort out sooky attitudes and big kids though and you don't have to get people upset with you as you do it.

This is a premiership winning squad right now. I wouldn't be cleaning too much up with it at all. Certainly wouldn't be trading packer a year short of his contract. Mason and Bennett will get a hold of this guy and turn him around, just watch. Then you'll see what you are missing and its not players. Bennett does nothing tactically where he goes. But he gets every bit of talent out of people he manages. If you do that at the warriors there is no reason why you cant win 2-3 comps with this squad.

Good luck to Bennett. I genuinely like Packer and hope to see him playing good football for the Kiwis in the future. On his day, he has the mongrel that our pack can miss at times.

But I would say that the reason that our 'premiership winning squad' isn't winning premierships right now is attitude. And it seems to be that, in 2013, Packer doesn't have a premiership winning attitude and perhaps the only way to remedy that is a new environment.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
Ackers has been around the place for a while..

1010062_243442562473564_619782524_n.jpg
 

Lossy

Juniors
Messages
753
Ackers has been around the place for a while..

Had a decent sized break in between stints, but yep, a fair amount of dust would have accumulated. No wonder Elliot needs to clean house. A shame the broom aint bigger.
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
Is there any evidence for this split between Ackers & ME or it all rumour?
I know a guy who is mates with Ackers. Elliot doesn't like Ackland. They rarely spoke throughout this past year.
 

Micistm

Bench
Messages
4,470
Packer might thrive under Bennett, and a change in environment to Knights. Hope so, that's gotta be good for the Kiwis.

I like Acks, good luck to him. But I have no issue with a broom going through the Warriors. It just seemed too Matey Matey Boys club. If ME is going to bring a more Aussie Professional style way of doing things, I like that. It's his watch, his call, and he will live or die by his changes.
Any players that have a 'tude towards it can find another Club IMO, it will be just as hard work at the other Clubs. To me, there has been an issue at the Warriors for years, and it's something you can't quite put your finger on. But you have to start somewhere, and try something.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,803
The thing that makes me laugh about this whole situation is the fact that it's Matthew Elliot doing this clean out...

He a real good bloke... A real good bloke..

But let's be honest here... He's a f**king ordinary coach.

I'm quite dubious of what's going on at this club... I think more questions should be asked about the talent Elliot's releasing.

Packer I can understand... His attitude has become a public issue.

But there seems to be more and more names being thrown in here as problems.

I mean Shaun Johnson and Ben Matulino??

At what stage do you say... Well maybe ME isn't a good enough coach to get the best out if the talent we have developed.

The question I have... Would a coach like Bennett or Hasler or Bellamy let these types if players go if they were in this position... I honestly don't think so...

People seem to have this blind faith that Elliot will do this clean out and the club will be better for it... Well IMO if you wanted to clean a club out... Matt Elliot is hardly a guy with any sort of track record to do so.

Brian Smith would be the guy for that job...
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
The thing that makes me laugh about this whole situation is the fact that it's Matthew Elliot doing this clean out...

He a real good bloke... A real good bloke..

But let's be honest here... He's a f**king ordinary coach.

I'm quite dubious of what's going on at this club... I think more questions should be asked about the talent Elliot's releasing.

Packer I can understand... His attitude has become a public issue.

But there seems to be more and more names being thrown in here as problems.

I mean Shaun Johnson and Ben Matulino??

At what stage do you say... Well maybe ME isn't a good enough coach to get the best out if the talent we have developed.

The question I have... Would a coach like Bennett or Hasler or Bellamy let these types if players go if they were in this position... I honestly don't think so...

People seem to have this blind faith that Elliot will do this clean out and the club will be better for it... Well IMO if you wanted to clean a club out... Matt Elliot is hardly a guy with any sort of track record to do so.

Brian Smith would be the guy for that job...

What a very odd post. You can understand releasing the one guys who has so far been released.

So you're questioning Elliott and comparing him to Hasler, Bennett, Bellamy etc based on releases that haven't and are incredibly unlikely to happen?

Johnson always get mentioned. When we were going bad Johnson wanted out, when we went on a good run nobody said a word about him wanting out, and now that a supposed clean out is happening suddenly he wants out again.

Matulino made a boat tweet. Big deal.

Locke was always a 50/50 would like to keep, but can't fault for leaving proposition once we signed Tomkins.

There's only two places pushing the Matulino and Johnson rumours and that would be the media and their managers.
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
Shiznit is one of those classic NZ League fans who support another NRL side but spend just as much time if not more talking about the Warriors.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,803
What a very odd post. You can understand releasing the one guys who has so far been released.

So you're questioning Elliott and comparing him to Hasler, Bennett, Bellamy etc based on releases that haven't and are incredibly unlikely to happen?

Johnson always get mentioned. When we were going bad Johnson wanted out, when we went on a good run nobody said a word about him wanting out, and now that a supposed clean out is happening suddenly he wants out again.

Matulino made a boat tweet. Big deal.

Locke was always a 50/50 would like to keep, but can't fault for leaving proposition once we signed Tomkins.

There's only two places pushing the Matulino and Johnson rumours and that would be the media and their managers.
I'm questioning the thought that a large ME clean out is necessary.

I see people talking about a large broom and that more people need to go...

And I just wonder if enough questions are being asked of the changes being made by Elliot.

Playing devils advocate if you will...
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,803
Shiznit is one of those classic NZ League fans who support another NRL side but spend just as much time if not more talking about the Warriors.
Yeah for sure... That sums me up pretty well...

I follow another club... From before the warriors were around... But I have a strong interest in the Warriors through being around the scene and knowing a lot of people who have been through the club and are still at ten club.

The game here needs the warriors to do well... The game is buzzing when the warriors are killing it...

It certainly beats being sycophant like yourself... Who gobbles up whatever rubbish is being fed to them in the sake of not rocking the boat.
 

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