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England 4N team

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
The squad has just been announced and it is fairly close to what i would've chosen although it is just a little light on for props. For some reason GB/England always pick 100 back rowers and not enough props in a squad.
Good to see Joel Tomkins in there, not sure about Mike Cooper, i would've gone for Alex Walmsley and/or Scott Taylor.
Also, Liam Farrell is a waste of a squad spot, i doubt he will play and is too small for Internationals.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Roby out which is a huge blow TBH. I knew McNamara would pick Mike Cooper, I'm surprised Heighington wasn't in there again as well.
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
692
Tomkins
Burgess
Watkins
Shenton
Hall
Widdop
Smith
Graham
Clarke
G Burgess
Westerman
Ferres
O'Loughlin

Hardaker
Whitehead
Hill
T Burgess
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Hodgson goes alright TBH and his selection is probably justified as the fourth best hooker in the comp this year.
 

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
I wondering if the coach will use O'Loughlin at hooker in attack, he could play the dummy half role and his defence is excellent.
Then switch him back when Clark comes on, just a thought.
It would free up another big body to play in he back row.
What an athletic back row it would be of Westerman, J Tomkins and Whitehead.
 

goodplayer

Juniors
Messages
2,078
good to see the good in form england players being picked

what your thoughts on tactics, defence, attack skills ;-)

george burgess, must be in starting team ok , learn from the rabbits tactics ok england . dont use superleague ideas,
 
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roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
ok...ok....ok


ps james grahams passing game was/is a super league idea!!


whats funny about that is a few years ago "poms" struggled to cope with 2nd man plays.....you lot can't cope with a prop passing the ball lol
 
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BrisbaneRhino

Juniors
Messages
172
GB used to struggle with second man plays when Tony Smith was coach because moves that were legal in the NRL were treated as obstruction in SL. He had to spend time during a torunament coaching GB on how to defend against a meat and drink NRL move.

I'd prefer the hooker to play 80 minutes (whoever it is), but if not I'd far rather go with the option of O'Loughlin or similar starting there. Otherwise England have to play a second hooker on the bench, which really weakens the forward rotation.

Its hard to argue with too many of the squad. I've no problem with Cooper being there, as a forward who's slightly above average in the NRL has at least got the benefit of having played against his opponents, and faced the kind of plays Australia in particular will put on. That and the fact that there simply isn't an outstanding alternative in SL.

The backs look a hell of a lot healthier than they were even when Smith was in charge (the tiny Calderwood and Lee Smith right wing duo still gives me nightmares), but without Sam Burgess our backrow looks weaker than it has for years.

Probably the only real selection issues are around the left centre and how to use Tomkins and Hardaker. England haven't got the luxury of enough class elsewhere to leave Hardaker out IMO, so I think he'll play. I wouldn't put him in the centres as although he'd be physically OK he's no passer of the ball, so I would be tempted for him at fullback and Tomkins at 7 - also because if Tomkins plays fullback he's going to be peppered with high balls all day.

Can't see England doing much TBH, although as ever they have a chance vs NZ. A good result for me would be to at least give Australia a tough game for 80 minutes, and beat/run NZ close.
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
692
Alternatives to Cooper would be Amor, Walmsley, Huby, Lynch, Taylor, L Burgess. There are also a number of players who's claim is as strong as Coopers IMO, such as Crosby, Scruton, and England.

The Tomkins Hardaker dilemma is interesting, on the one hand it's great to have the issue of two class fullbacks, we've been conditioned over the last 40 years to thinking we have to shoehorn every class player into the team which results in players playing out of position. Australia don't have any qualms about leaving class players out of their squad and neither should England, Terry Lamb and Cliff Lyons couldn't get a look in at half back during the 80s. Patten, Zillman Bowen, even Haynes been left out because of Slater and Inglis presence as full backs. England shouldn't feel that they've got to compromise the structure of the whole team to accommodate a player even if he's as good as Tomkins or Hardaker.

Fwiw, here's my selection for the game Vs Australia,
Hardaker, Burgess, Watkins, Shenton, Hall, Widdop, Smith, Graham, Clarke, G Burgess, Westerman, Ferres, O'Loughlin. Subs: Farrell, Whitehead, Hill, T Burgess

The Ausies will be expecting Tomkins to play and will practice for him being at the back, they'll prepare for his unique style of kick returns and they'll base their kicking game around his perceived weaknesses. Hardaker is a different proposition altogether and whilst not unknown to Australia they will be no where near as familiar with him as Tomkins and won't practice for him being there.

In much the same way I've gone for Burgess over Charnley, totally different players in returning the ball and defensively, again the Ausies will practice to play on Charnleys perceived weakness under the high ball and will plan on putting him under pressure instead of going to Hall on the opposite wing. Burgess is 6'3" or 6'4", is much better than Charnley under the high ball and returns it out of yardage with far greater efficiency than Josh Charnley.

Only two small changes but the kicking game plays such a huge part in Rugby League, especially Internationals where territory is at a premium. If we can affect the Ausies kicking efficiency without losing any quality then we should do so, on such fine margins do Test matches turn.
 
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Messages
119
The Tomkins Hardaker dilemma is interesting, on the one hand it's great to have the issue of two class fullbacks, we've been conditioned over the last 40 years to thinking we have to shoehorn every class player into the team which results in players playing out of position. Australia don't have any qualms about leaving class players out of their squad and neither should England, Terry Lamb and Cliff Lyons couldn't get a look in at half back during the 80s. Patten, Zillman Bowen, even Haynes been left out because of Slater and Inglis presence as full backs. England shouldn't feel that they've got to compromise the structure of the whole team to accommodate a player even if he's as good as Tomkins or Hardaker.

I'm sorry, but did you just mention Will Zillman in the same sentence as Slater, Inglis and Hayne? Hahahaahahahahah Zillman is easily the WORST fullback in the NRL and will most likely be dropped next season for David Mead.
 

goodplayer

Juniors
Messages
2,078
ok...ok....ok


ps james grahams passing game was/is a super league idea!!


whats funny about that is a few years ago "poms" struggled to cope with 2nd man plays.....you lot can't cope with a prop passing the ball lol

aussies could be out by the time they play samoa...so it does'nt matter

:lol: calm down rough spud. just worry about englands game plan . like i told you before, england could win ;-)
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
God I hope England win, big sports breakfast just pissed me off with how they talked about super league and the England team. No respect.

Has hard a key ever played center? He's to good to not play and it's a similar situation to hayne/Inglis at fullback or center
 

WireMan

Bench
Messages
4,479
Alternatives to Cooper would be Amor, Walmsley, Huby, Lynch, Taylor, L Burgess. There are also a number of players who's claim is as strong as Coopers IMO, such as Crosby, Scruton, and England.

The Tomkins Hardaker dilemma is interesting, on the one hand it's great to have the issue of two class fullbacks, we've been conditioned over the last 40 years to thinking we have to shoehorn every class player into the team which results in players playing out of position. Australia don't have any qualms about leaving class players out of their squad and neither should England, Terry Lamb and Cliff Lyons couldn't get a look in at half back during the 80s. Patten, Zillman Bowen, even Haynes been left out because of Slater and Inglis presence as full backs. England shouldn't feel that they've got to compromise the structure of the whole team to accommodate a player even if he's as good as Tomkins or Hardaker.

Fwiw, here's my selection for the game Vs Australia,
Hardaker, Burgess, Watkins, Shenton, Hall, Widdop, Smith, Graham, Clarke, G Burgess, Westerman, Ferres, O'Loughlin. Subs: Farrell, Whitehead, Hill, T Burgess

The Ausies will be expecting Tomkins to play and will practice for him being at the back, they'll prepare for his unique style of kick returns and they'll base their kicking game around his perceived weaknesses. Hardaker is a different proposition altogether and whilst not unknown to Australia they will be no where near as familiar with him as Tomkins and won't practice for him being there.

In much the same way I've gone for Burgess over Charnley, totally different players in returning the ball and defensively, again the Ausies will practice to play on Charnleys perceived weakness under the high ball and will plan on putting him under pressure instead of going to Hall on the opposite wing. Burgess is 6'3" or 6'4", is much better than Charnley under the high ball and returns it out of yardage with far greater efficiency than Josh Charnley.

Only two small changes but the kicking game plays such a huge part in Rugby League, especially Internationals where territory is at a premium. If we can affect the Ausies kicking efficiency without losing any quality then we should do so, on such fine margins do Test matches turn.


Those alternatives are not as good as cooper though. Especially England. He is only just good enough to play for Warrington.

Tomkins or Hardaker is not a dilemma. Tomkins is better. Hardaker could play on the wing, definitely not at centre.

For what its worth...

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Whitehead
Hall
Ratchford
Smith
Hill
Hodgson
G Burgess
Ferres
Westerman
O'Loughlin

Graham
Cooper
T Burgess
Clark.
 

The Clan

Juniors
Messages
692
I'm sorry, but did you just mention Will Zillman in the same sentence as Slater, Inglis and Hayne? Hahahaahahahahah Zillman is easily the WORST fullback in the NRL and will most likely be dropped next season for David Mead.

You seem to be rather thick, do you need some help?
 

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
God I hope England win, big sports breakfast just pissed me off with how they talked about super league and the England team. No respect.

Has hard a key ever played center? He's to good to not play and it's a similar situation to hayne/Inglis at fullback or center

What was said on the BSB ?
Was it TK or Jimmy Smith or both.

Yes Zak Hardsker has played centre, he was man of the match v Samoa playing centre last year.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
What was said on the BSB ?
Was it TK or Jimmy Smith or both.

Yes Zak Hardsker has played centre, he was man of the match v Samoa playing centre last year.

It was Jimmy Smith and that idiot Adrian who calls up. Pretty much said super league was rubbish and going backwards and that Samoa would thrash England. Clearly neither has a clue nor watched England last year at the world cup. Do they think players like burgess and Graham just pop out of the ground in Australia with a funny accent or something. Dead set idiot s
 
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