Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

[dangerousdave]

Speaking as someone from the Illawarra region, I can assure you more league fans in that area are just glad they still have a team in the NRL, compared to those against the St George dominance in the JV. The Illawarra identy would have been long gone from the NRL arena already if not for the JV.

There was alot of bad blood early on but now people of the Illawarra have generally embraced the dragons and I can't say that there are that many former Steelers fans who were lost to the game.

The Dragons have been heavily involved in junior development in the area, the region is going to keep getting regular top level fixtures and and the mercury and other local mediua have done a great job over the last 12 years to promote St George Illawarra as 'our team.'

 

[Perth Red]

Looking at popualrity of clubs based on avg home attendances:

94 NS by 300
95 Manly by 3,200
96 Manly by 1,500
97 Manly by 100
98 NS by 500
99 Manly by 9,400

You would have to say Manly were the better supported team. Just a shame they couldn't make the joint venture work.

 

[Beowulf]

Nothing to forget, nothing there has anything to do with MWRLFC, the North Sydney board at the time had no frigging money. They weren't even considered.
I will stop using the '4 letter' word when arseholes like you stop blaming Manly for the ineptitude of the North Sydney Board, the fact you were f**kING broke and the fact the majority of former members, supporters didn't give a rats..
I did empathise with Norths for a while until all the whiney supporters from your old non-existent team started to blame us for the fact that your club was on its knees then took two .22 to the back of the head by its own broke and desperate club.

I agree our Board at the time, like yours is now, was inept. The nicest euphemism about Manly that can be used re those times is opportunistic. Everything in my post is factual. Glad to see you've upgraded your vocab from 4 to 9 letters.

 

[Beowulf]

Looking at popualrity of clubs based on avg home attendances:

94 NS by 300
95 Manly by 3,200
96 Manly by 1,500
97 Manly by 100
98 NS by 500
99 Manly by 9,400

You would have to say Manly were the better supported team. Just a shame they couldn't make the joint venture work.

Exactly why the Bears moved to Gosford - there's not quite enough support on the NS alone for an NRL team. The figures are correct but ignore 99 - that was the year we had no home ground.

 

[seaeagle sam]

I agree our Board at the time, like yours is now, was inept. The nicest euphemism about Manly that can be used re those times is opportunistic. Everything in my post is factual. Glad to see you've upgraded your vocab from 4 to 9 letters.

I think ineptitude has 10 letters f**ktard.

 

[firechild]

You have no idea on the stance the Illawarra side were prepared to take when the JV was first proposed. You have no idea how quickly and how often they were prepared to bend over for St George. Best you don't make assumptions, methinks.

Speaking as someone from the Illawarra region, I can assure you more league fans in that area are just glad they still have a team in the NRL, compared to those against the St George dominance in the JV. The Illawarra identy would have been long gone from the NRL arena already if not for the JV.

I can't speak for Wests Magpies because I don't know enough about the deal they nutted out with Balmain Tigers. I do get the impression that the Illawarra juniors are look after a lot better than the Campbelltown juniors. Maybe the links between St George and the Illawarra region being in place for the last 50 years has helped that JV work better. Maybe if the Balmain Tigers weren't so hellbent on weakening the Magpies NSW Cup team, or if they also merged the two teams in that comp, it would work better for them.

The fact that Illawarra residents are happy with the way things are going does not negate the fact St George have taken control of most aspects of the JV. It is certainly the most harmonious of the 3 JVs. One of the current problems with Wests is that when the JV formed, it was agreed that Wests Tigers would only represent the NRL side (later changed to include the NYC side as per NRL conditions) while control of all grades up to and including NSW Cup would remain in the hands of Balmain and Western Suburbs. Now, all NRL players that are dropped to NSW Cup are being put into the balmain side regardless of whether they were Wests or Balmain juniors meaning Wests are weakened while Balmain is strengthened. There are also moves to create Wests Tigers teams for NSW Cup and I believe Harold Matthews and SG Ball which will all be based out of Concord. Western Suburbs are losing their identity and the belief seems to be Balmain are short on money and are making these moves in order to utilise Wests' resources to prop up their club.

 

[bobmar28]

The fact that Illawarra residents are happy with the way things are going does not negate the fact St George have taken control of most aspects of the JV. It is certainly the most harmonious of the 3 JVs. One of the current problems with Wests is that when the JV formed, it was agreed that Wests Tigers would only represent the NRL side (later changed to include the NYC side as per NRL conditions) while control of all grades up to and including NSW Cup would remain in the hands of Balmain and Western Suburbs. Now, all NRL players that are dropped to NSW Cup are being put into the balmain side regardless of whether they were Wests or Balmain juniors meaning Wests are weakened while Balmain is strengthened. There are also moves to create Wests Tigers teams for NSW Cup and I believe Harold Matthews and SG Ball which will all be based out of Concord. Western Suburbs are losing their identity and the belief seems to be Balmain are short on money and are making these moves in order to utilise Wests' resources to prop up their club.

It's a pity the Steelers won't be around to take advantage of the billion dollar TV contract. The Illawarra should have it's own team.

 

[adamkungl]

It's a pity the Steelers won't be around to take advantage of the billion dollar TV contract. The Illawarra should have it's own team.

wtf. This is completely inconsistent with anything you've ever posted about the "Sydney region"

 

[dangerousdave]

wtf. This is completely inconsistent with anything you've ever posted about the "Sydney region"

Unlike the Central Coast, Wollongong is not a part of the Sydney metropolitan area. Also unlike the CC, it is TRUE rugby league heartland. As an ex-steelers fan, I am now happy enough with the JV, St George Illawarra are pretty well positioned to become a powerhouse club

 

[Perth Red]

Agreed better one strong club than two weakend clubs. Something the Bears and Eagles failed to see.

 

[firechild]

Agreed better one strong club than two weakend clubs. Something the Bears and Eagles failed to see.

No. Manly has as many titles since the JV broke down as NS had in almost 100 years. The Bears were nothing but a parasite on a successful club.

 

[Beowulf]

I think ineptitude has 10 letters f**ktard.

9 arseholes...like yourself and the 8 others who believe your 'we are soooo innocent and were just trying to help North Sydney' propaganda campaign. I see you've regressed to 8 now - your age, IQ or tooth count - I'm not sure which yet. Maybe an aggregate of all three?

Anyone who knows the details is aware there were faults on all sides - Norths, Manly, NRL, News. Deny that and you discredit yourself even further. But please keep digging - you may end up on the Sunshine Coast, which would be quite appropriate, given this thread topic.

 

[Beowulf]

Unlike the Central Coast, Wollongong is not a part of the Sydney metropolitan area. Also unlike the CC, it is TRUE rugby league heartland.

Have to disagree on both I'm afraid. The CC has officially been designated a regional centre, both by Govt and the RL.

And the CC has the largest junior pool in NSW outside of Newcastle and Penrith.

 

[firechild]

Anyone who knows the details is aware there were faults on all sides - Norths, Manly, NRL, News.

Yet you merkins keep wanting to place all the blame on Manly. Can't fault Manly for wanting to protect themselves first after just a couple of years (or less) into a forced merger. Look at Wests Tigers, Balmain are still sabotaging the merger for their own self interests after more than 10 years and a premiership.

 

[Beowulf]

No. Manly has as many titles since the JV broke down as NS had in almost 100 years. The Bears were nothing but a parasite on a successful club.

Manly's success post-Bears is partly due to our absence. The last sentence is a troll statement, but worth correcting for factuality. Manly was of course, created with the assistance of the Bears who saw Manly as their 'son'. Since then Manly have parasitically lived off not just the Bears but Newtown, Souths, Wests - as a tiny area with only 250K residents would have to to survive. Only problem is, the parasitic damage is hindering the growth of the game in more important areas than Manly or NS, such as the Central Coast.

Thankfully the IC will take a big picture view point.

 

[Beowulf]

Yet you merkins keep wanting to place all the blame on Manly. Can't fault Manly for wanting to protect themselves first after just a couple of years (or less) into a forced merger. Look at Wests Tigers, Balmain are still sabotaging the merger for their own self interests after more than 10 years and a premiership.

Read my posts before falsely claiming I place all blame on Manly. My main disappointement with Manly stems from their conduct leading up to the criteria decision, the appointment of an administrator at Norths etc. Agree with you re Balmain swamping Wests. Talk to diehard Wests fans at NSW Cup games and they're very disillusioned.

 

[Perth Red]

No. Manly has as many titles since the JV broke down as NS had in almost 100 years. The Bears were nothing but a parasite on a successful club.

You mistake team for club. Manly has punched well above its weight on the field, helped by a salary cap keeping the comp artificially even, but off the field they are one of the weakest clubs in the league in terms of finances, facilities, fanbase etc.

 

[firechild]

Manly's success post-Bears is partly due to our absence.

The only thing that is missing with the absence of the Bears is easy competition points that Manly used to pick up like Canberra do from the Dragons. The absence of the Bears has provided no benefit for Manly. Manly were successful before the merger (remember 3 consecutive grand finals in the years leading to the merger) and they have been successfuly since the merger (3 grand finals within 9 years since it broke down). The Bears were just a nothing club that few people outside the North Shore cared about, they weren't liked, they weren't disliked, they weren't successful but they were not perennial cellar dwellars. No wonder Souths became the team of choice for many Bears fans, they could relate to the ongoing failure of the club.

 

[Beowulf]

You mistake team for club. Manly has punched well above its weight on the field, helped by a salary cap keeping the comp artificially even, but off the field they are one of the weakest clubs in the league in terms of finances, facilities, fanbase etc.

Agree - they've always had a strong Football Department, horrible back office. As a former manly Manager told me they are top 3 on the field, bottom 3 off it.

 

[firechild]

You mistake team for club. Manly has punched well above its weight on the field, helped by a salary cap keeping the comp artificially even, but off the field they are one of the weakest clubs in the league in terms of finances, facilities, fanbase etc.

And the salary cap isn't going anywhere so the club will remain successful in-field. Financially, 14 of the 16 clubs lose money each year so that point is really irrelevent. If 14 clubs were making money and 2 were not then you might have a point. The new tv deal and an increase of the grant to bring it in line with (or above) the salary cap will make most clubs profitable. If it weren't for clubs like the Reds who went to Super League, manly would not have lost so much money fighting Super League and the club would be much more financially viable. Look at your own club for what went wrong there.