Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

[firechild]

Agree - they've always had a strong Football Department, horrible back office. As a former manly Manager told me they are top 3 on the field, bottom 3 off it.

I think any fan (or player, or club official) would prefer that than the opposite.

 

[Beowulf]

The only thing that is missing with the absence of the Bears is easy competition points that Manly used to pick up like Canberra do from the Dragons. The absence of the Bears has provided no benefit for Manly. Manly were successful before the merger (remember 3 consecutive grand finals in the years leading to the merger) and they have been successfuly since the merger (3 grand finals within 9 years since it broke down). The Bears were just a nothing club that few people outside the North Shore cared about, they weren't liked, they weren't disliked, they weren't successful but they were not perennial cellar dwellars. No wonder Souths became the team of choice for many Bears fans, they could relate to the ongoing failure of the club.

And therein lies the cultural gulf between our Clubs. Agree it would be nice to have won more titles, but you obviously don't comprehend the necessary culture required to represent a team on the NS. It ensured we wouldn't win many comps and also is why the Bears have looked to relocate north since 1981. The Bears were screwed since the Harbour Bridge was built in the 20's, destroying our working class base. St Leonards was suppossed to be full of factories in the 30's, but they went instead to western Sydney. Then came the war, Manly and Central Coast decoupled, and the Warringah Freeway ripped the area in half in the 60's. The Club knew it could never be a premiership force but thats not the point and it was the big atraction to me. Dignity and perserverence.

 

[Beowulf]

I think any fan (or player, or club official) would prefer that than the opposite.

Some fans yes, most players I'm sure, but not most of the staff that have worked there the past 10 years particularly!

 

[Perth Red]

And the salary cap isn't going anywhere so the club will remain successful in-field. Financially, 14 of the 16 clubs lose money each year so that point is really irrelevent. If 14 clubs were making money and 2 were not then you might have a point. The new tv deal and an increase of the grant to bring it in line with (or above) the salary cap will make most clubs profitable. If it weren't for clubs like the Reds who went to Super League, manly would not have lost so much money fighting Super League and the club would be much more financially viable. Look at your own club for what went wrong there.

I'm fully aware of what went wrong at our club thanks! We've been paying for it for the last 15 years, but nice divert!

Not arguing re Manly and the rest of the clubs but they are struggling financially and will continue to do so more and more off the field unless Brookvale is brought up to 21st century standard and it looks a long way off. Playing out of Gosford with couple of games at Brooky and NS with the finances of the two areas and the fanbase of 3 regions could have seen the Northern Eagles as powerhouse of NSW clubs if it had been done right and the parties had stuck to it. But it wasn;t so all a mute point really! If Manly can stay succesful on the field and get sustainable off the field then great stuff, time will tell.

 

[firechild]

There is already movement for upgrades of Brookvale. As I've said before (and you are probably well aware) small upgrades are happening before Manly's first home game which include 1400 additional seats, more corporate areas as well as other new facilites (toilets, food/drink outlets). I'm pretty optimistic about what will happen over the next 10 years.

Re; your club, it wasn't a diversion at all, it was a comment on why Manly are in the financial position we are in that you keep harping on about. Manly was until the 90s a wealthy club, hence the silvertails but Super league basically drained the money.

 

[Lambretta]

Agreed better one strong club than two weakend clubs. Something the Bears and Eagles failed to see.

The Bears and the Eagles as a joint venture was never going to work. It was a stupid idea from day one.

Neither side, liked, or trusted the other (with bloody good reason) and their fans hated each other as well.

The Northern Eagles getting 18,000 in the first season at Gosford has been mentioned, but much of that was novelty factor. How many turned up in year two? Gosford didnt warm to the club and Bears fans and Manly fans didnt much either.

St George Illawarra works as a joint venture as they both contribute something different to the relationship and St Georges ties in the Illawarra have been there a long time. The Illawarra gets its own team (something they probably wouldnt have, without St George) and St George gets a large increase in it's supporter base and juniors base.

What were the complimentary synergies that Norths and Manly brought to the table? An ability to dispise each other. That was about it. Manly have a long history of f**king people over to get what they want and the Bears have a long history of loveable failure. It's hardly a winning formula for co-operation is it? It isn't Manlys fault the venture failed, nor was it Norths - it's the fault of whoever the f**k proposed it in the first place.

 

[Scarves]

And therein lies the cultural gulf between our Clubs. Agree it would be nice to have won more titles, but you obviously don't comprehend the necessary culture required to represent a team on the NS. It ensured we wouldn't win many comps and also is why the Bears have looked to relocate north since 1981. The Bears were screwed since the Harbour Bridge was built in the 20's, destroying our working class base. St Leonards was suppossed to be full of factories in the 30's, but they went instead to western Sydney. Then came the war, Manly and Central Coast decoupled, and the Warringah Freeway ripped the area in half in the 60's. The Club knew it could never be a premiership force but thats not the point and it was the big atraction to me. Dignity and perserverence.

This is a fair comment. Good on you for the perserverence.

I have a question... if the Bears come back as a reincarnated Central Coast outfit and considering your comments, what would be the big attraction for you?

Additionally had no idea the Bears were looking at relocation since 1981. Crikey, does it really take that long to relocate, that's almost 20 years. Little wonder they're gone.

 

[rednblack]

Unlike the Central Coast, Wollongong is not a part of the Sydney metropolitan area.

The Central Coast is not a part of Sydney, no matter how much anyone here would like to believe it is...

The state and federal governments treat it as a region, no different to the Riverina or the Central Tablelands etc.
The NRL classified Gosford as being a regional area for their own purposes over 10 years ago.
Telstra charges for a long distance call from Gosford to Sydney.
Some NSW state-based Emergency Services have Gosford outside the metro area.
Freight companies have delivery rates to "Sydney", or to the "Central Coast".
The majority of people who live on the coast do not identify as being from Sydney.
Gosford is no more a part of Sydney than the gong.

 

[dangerousdave]

The Central Coast is not a part of Sydney, no matter how much anyone here would like to believe it is...

The state and federal governments treat it as a region, no different to the Riverina or the Central Tablelands etc.

Not according to the ABS

Plus my statement identified it as part of the Sydney metro area...which it indisputably is based on the CC's incapacity to be mostly self sufficient employment wise

 

[Beowulf]

This is a fair comment. Good on you for the perserverence.

I have a question... if the Bears come back as a reincarnated Central Coast outfit and considering your comments, what would be the big attraction for you?

Additionally had no idea the Bears were looking at relocation since 1981. Crikey, does it really take that long to relocate, that's almost 20 years. Little wonder they're gone.

Attraction - The fact I didn't let 'my' team die. They will have a more competitive culture at Gosford and I'll probably have mixed emotions if they don't have the same easy-going community spirit, but times have changed. They'll probably win a comp within 10 years, but again, if they didn't win a game it wouldn't matter to me. Call it what you will, I will always see them as 'The Bears'. I live 1hr away from Gosford, so have the best of both worlds - can get to those home games and all the Sydney away games, which will also all be around 1 hr away.

Relocation - Like the rest of the Bears unfortunate saga, its a tale of missed/denied opportunities. Cricket and Rugby basically denied them at Chatswood, they were thinking of Hornsby as well and in 1991 were all set to go to the Central Coast but the clubs up there baulked, fearing they wouldn't be the big fish in a small pond anymore.

 

[bobmar28]

No. Manly has as many titles since the JV broke down as NS had in almost 100 years. The Bears were nothing but a parasite on a successful club.

The day will come when people will realise that the Northern Eagles would have been the perfect solution.

 

[docbrown]

The day will come when people will realise that the Northern Eagles would have been the perfect solution.

I believe that was foretold in Revelations 13:2

 

[Loudstrat]

The day will come when your brain will begin working.

The merger never worked because there were three areas involved, and only one got serviced. The Central Coast got a team. The North Shore lost their team to a hated rival, and for them the Bears were already dead. The Northern Beaches lost their team to some far flung location that was difficult to get to.

If Norths got the same cash injection that otherclubs got, and Manly stayed at Brookie, those years would have had 3 regions serviced, not one. Typical f*cking Super League and News Ltd idealists contacting the code. The entire northern third of Sydney was shafted in that move, and left to the 4 Shute Shield clubs - funny how the Union renaissance began with that move.

 

[Loudstrat]

I believe that was foretold in Revelations 13:2

And in Iron Maiden's third album.

Therefore if Neil Whittaker and the NRL dickwads at the time listened to Maiden, the Bears would still exist!

 

[firechild]

The Central Coast is not a part of Sydney, no matter how much anyone here would like to believe it is....

That would be all well and good if the bid did not rely on a crucial link to Sydney's North Shore as has been stated by the CC bid and their representatives here many times. While the CC may be a standalone entity, in rugby league terms it is not.

 

[rednblack]

That would be all well and good if the bid did not rely on a crucial link to Sydney's North Shore as has been stated by the CC bid and their representatives here many times. While the CC may be a standalone entity, in rugby league terms it is not.

You're wrong - according to the NRL the Central Coast is a regional area, as has been outlined here too many times to count.

That aside, my post was in reply to someone claiming that the CC is part of Sydney, while claiming that the gong is not. The purpose of my post was to point out that in real terms, neither is more so a part of Sydney than the other.

I'm not going to outline again all the benefits of re-linking with the northern suburbs of Sydney, since I know that you're aware of them already. The fact remains that a CC Bears bid takes advantage of manly's laziness, and capitalizes on areas that you guys have neglected. It is still a CC bid, and takes advantage of historical links in other areas. I'm really not sure why you claim this as a negative, but then, I'm not sure you know why you think its a negative either...

 

[rednblack]

Not according to the ABS

According to Business NSW (the NSW department of Trade & Investment) the Central Coast is a region in it's own right...

http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/invest-in-nsw/regional-nsw/nsw-regions


Likewise, a newspaper article quoting former NSW premier Keneally. See the former premier's quote in the second last paragraph "The Central Coast is a region in its own right..."

http://express-advocate-gosford.whe.../nsw-cabinet-packs-down-on-the-central-coast/

 

[Beowulf]

The issue is, a region of 24 junior teams has no NRL connection. Which is the best way of covering it.....remember 3 clubs have folded since the Bears were punted and soccer, AFL and Union have made inroads.

The CC Bears option gives the most bang for buck, and if rejected now the opportunity is gone forever as Flo has stated its now or never.

 

[dangerousdave]

According to Business NSW (the NSW department of Trade & Investment) the Central Coast is a region in it's own right...

http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/invest-in-nsw/regional-nsw/nsw-regions


Likewise, a newspaper article quoting former NSW premier Keneally. See the former premier's quote in the second last paragraph "The Central Coast is a region in its own right..."

http://express-advocate-gosford.whe.../nsw-cabinet-packs-down-on-the-central-coast/

???

Our points are not at odd's.

Categorically speaking the Central Coast is both an independent region and part of the Sydney metropolitan area.

I agree that my point may well have been irrelevant given the indisputable separatist attitude of those who live on the coast.

I do think that something that is key to the success of the Bears is the pursual of developments fitting with the Gosford City Centre LEP released by the NSW Cities Taskforce. This would not only serve to provide a unified centre for the people of the coast to relate to, but create a more hospitable business environment for a fledgling professional sporting franchise.

 

[Quidgybo]

The perennial argument about whether the Central Coast is part of Sydney or a regional area is of course missing the real point. It doesn't matter how you classify it, the issue is that there are already 10 of 16 licenses based in the very limited geographical area between Newcastle and Wollongong (a distance under 250km). Those who insist on getting bogged down in the Sydney vs regional argument are really just trying to avoid dealing with the fact that this corridor is already spolied for choice while other areas of Australia and New Zealand either have only one choice or no choice at all within any reasonable travelling distance.

Leigh