Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

[docbrown]

One day Manly will realise they have nearly a third of Sydney all to themselves when it comes to a sponsor/fans catchment area - from the Harbour Bridge to the Hawkesbury & west to Cherrybrook - that enormous part of Sydney is large enough to sustain one NRL team, offering far more $ potential than anywhere people imagine Manly would be better off moving too. Of course, if Manly did leave to Qld or wherever, there would no team on the north side of Sydney, the city that purports to be the home of RL.

When you think about how long they've had to capitalise on it too, it's rather sad.

Hopefully the presence of the Bears can spur them into action. If there's a division there's tension and if there's tension you capture people's attention.

 

[oval]

my mistake

you do have two fans

A ton of fun?

 

[Joker's Wild]

That's where you're wrong. On a sunny(ish) afternoon I can't think of a better ground to watch the footy. For general admission price you can be right on the 50 metre line, on a hill with a fugload of atmosphere, great view of the game, warm beer and cold pies, bosomy betties pushing past, sneaky ciggies (or maybe something a little more jazzy), and sups from the hip flask... Of course when it's a wet Monday night it's a different story, but those nights are easy to forget...

It's hard to put bias aside, but I reckon the view + atmosphere in the middle of the Brooky hill at a big game is is similar to Leichardt and Kogarah, better than Shark Park cos their general admission is hidden away in the corner, more intense than Parramatta or Panthers due to their less concentrated plastic seating, and absolutely craps all over Homebush, the most boring ground for a club game I've ever been to. Sweet lord.

Sure the toilets are dark and stinky, the food is nasty, the corporate boxes are poor and you often have to stand up, but from my perspecitive - ie. the average supporter watching the footy on the hill - its f**ken GREAT. I don't care about hot chips or shiny cubicles to poo in. I don't give a shit about whether the elite have a comfortable and catered box to mince about in - I just wanna watch the footy. And yes I understand the club needs these things to improve their profit margin. But once I'm on the hill and the action has started, all that extra shite becomes irrelevant.

You're kidding yourself

If you truly think substandard corporate areas, sub 15k capacity, almost zero cover and a general lack of any facilities for the average punter cuts it in a modern world then you need to hop in your Delorian, punch it to 88mph and go back to the 1970s where you will fit in just nicely.

Its great that you enjoy your hill experience and dont like to think about how playing out of an outdated footy park effects your clubs bottom line, however those of us who live in the real world recognise that such a scenario will hurt the Sea Eagles in the near future if something isnt done about it.

 

[Red Bear]

That's where you're wrong. On a sunny(ish) afternoon I can't think of a better ground to watch the footy. For general admission price you can be right on the 50 metre line, on a hill with a fugload of atmosphere, great view of the game, warm beer and cold pies, bosomy betties pushing past, sneaky ciggies (or maybe something a little more jazzy), and sups from the hip flask... Of course when it's a wet Monday night it's a different story, but those nights are easy to forget...

It's hard to put bias aside, but I reckon the view + atmosphere in the middle of the Brooky hill at a big game is is similar to Leichardt and Kogarah, better than Shark Park cos their general admission is hidden away in the corner, more intense than Parramatta or Panthers due to their less concentrated plastic seating, and absolutely craps all over Homebush, the most boring ground for a club game I've ever been to. Sweet lord.

Sure the toilets are dark and stinky, the food is nasty, the corporate boxes are poor and you often have to stand up, but from my perspecitive - ie. the average supporter watching the footy on the hill - its f**ken GREAT. I don't care about hot chips or shiny cubicles to poo in. I don't give a shit about whether the elite have a comfortable and catered box to mince about in - I just wanna watch the footy. And yes I understand the club needs these things to improve their profit margin. But once I'm on the hill and the action has started, all that extra shite becomes irrelevant.

In a way I agree, I love the old grounds (such as Leichhardt, North Sydne Oval is my favourite place in the world) BUT the thing is we are the sort who are going to go to the footy regardless. Attracting families, attracting new fans is difficult with outdated grounds that, whilst they have huge amount of history and charm (the sort of thing I look for in a ground) are to the outsider, the new fan etc old, decrepit, uncomfortable and not worth going to.

It's shit that it comes to that IMO, but modern fans want comfort and a conrete bowl rather than any ground with some sort of standing behind it.

Ideally you can mix the two, such as the SCG, but more and more grounds will go the way of the modern all seater over the next 20 years.

 

[adamkungl]

I would say 'i hate the offseason' but boring kill sydney threads are pretty much par for the course all year

 

[Desert Qlder]

Lost in this argument about Manly is the point whether Sunshine Coast could sustain an NRL side, relocated or otherwise. I'm simply not convinced it can.

I'd like to see someone post conclusive evidence of the Sunny Coasts capacity for an NRL team.

 

[ceagle]

Lost in this argument about Manly is the point whether Sunshine Coast could sustain an NRL side, relocated or otherwise. I'm simply not convinced it can.

I'd like to see someone post conclusive evidence of the Sunny Coasts capacity for an NRL team.

Made this point earlier, what suggests the Sunshine coast would be more successfull financially then Manly?

 

[user_nat]

Lost in this argument about Manly is the point whether Sunshine Coast could sustain an NRL side, relocated or otherwise. I'm simply not convinced it can.

I'd like to see someone post conclusive evidence of the Sunny Coasts capacity for an NRL team.

Agreed. I honestly don't think the interest to support a team is here ATM. Certainly not for a relocated team.
Particularly because a large portion of the population is from Victoria.

 

[newman]

f**ken hell. I hate Manly as much as the next person but relocating them to an area that is totally undeserving of a top flight team to accommodate the bears who have (as it stands) absolutely no right to fill a spot held by one of the most successful and character filled clubs (who doesn't have an opinion about manly?) of the last 40 years is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard.

 

[newman]

Here is a memo for most LU users:

- No team will be relocated in the forseeable future.
- Sydney teams will continue to play out of suburban club grounds that are "challenging" and the pace of their improvement will be slow.
- If Manly or Cronulla go broke, the NRL will probably bail them out and they won't die.
- there will always be two teams who are the poorest in the league. always. Shipping teams off doesn't fix the problem.
- Now that the gold coast are in big financial trouble, and the new tv rights deal will be brokered without any expansion teams, the push to include expansion franchises will be slow.
- if and when the league does expand, the bears are going to miss out.

And you know what, the game will be fine, just as it has been for 100+ years.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

If we can sucessfully expand the brand further that way, then don't bring the Bears back.

You guys have had almost 10 years to shore up the North Shore. Yet your popularity is waning when compared to the 90's. I remember one specific membership drive you guys had in North Sydney and after 8 hours signed 0 members. There's a reason why you can't spread beyond your territory and that's because your club admins don't want to. You guys have tasted great success on the field but you are also incredibly lazy off the field until very recently.

 

[newman]

How is Manlys popularity waning? They regularly sell out home games and have big roll ups to finals and grand finals.

 

[NRL-TGG]

A very specific question.

What would it take to convince Manly to move to the Sunshine Coast?

Why would you want to do that? Well there are a few obvious reasons, the television networks want more Queensland teams to drive ratings in Brisbane. Manly has invested some time in the Sunshine Coast already. Manly need a new stadium. The game has a strong Central Coast bid that it'd rather accept instead of starting a new Queensland franchise from scratch.

So what would it take? I'd guess at least the following...

1. The Commission to seal a deal with the Queensland Government for a new stadium. The Sea Eagles would have to have hiring terms equal or better to those given the AFL's Suns. And the facilities would have to be equal or better than Skilled Park.
2. A ten year agreement for a Sydney season ticket with six games at the SFS, five away games (Roosters, Dragons, Tigers, Rabbitohs, Bulldogs or Sharks) and one home game (Bears). Sea Eagles to get 10% commission on each away ticket sold to its fans. NRL to guarantee express public transport from Brookvale for games.
3. A ten year agreement to play the Bears away in Gosford once each season.
4. A relocation grant. It would probably need to be at least $10m up front for relocation expenses and perhaps another $10m over ten years to market the team to the new fan base on the Sunshine Coast.
5. New management and possibly new owners. Because this isn't a chance in hell of happening otherwise.

Television gets their extra Queensland side, the Sea Eagles get their new stadium, the Central Coast gets their Bears, Manly fans get six games per year against traditional rivals at the best stadium in Sydney, everybody is happy... except the Manly fans, but then you can't please them anyway. :crazy:


Leigh.

Only problem with all of this is it is not a ideal world. Would also be interesting to hear what supporters of a proposed Sunshine coast team have to say about this.

 

[Goddo]

Here is a memo for most LU users:

- No team will be relocated in the forseeable future.
- Sydney teams will continue to play out of suburban club grounds that are "challenging" and the pace of their improvement will be slow.
- If Manly or Cronulla go broke, the NRL will probably bail them out and they won't die.
- there will always be two teams who are the poorest in the league. always. Shipping teams off doesn't fix the problem.
- Now that the gold coast are in big financial trouble, and the new tv rights deal will be brokered without any expansion teams, the push to include expansion franchises will be slow.
- if and when the league does expand, the bears are going to miss out.

And you know what, the game will be fine, just as it has been for 100+ years.

I agree with you for the most part, but I think if a Sydney club goes broke, the NRL will probably bail them out but they will want their pound of flesh in return - there won't be free cash for perenial strugglers.

The situation is NSW complex, and there is little demand from the games national sponsors and broadcasters for more NSW content. The simple choice for the NRL is to expand where the game needs to, and wait and see on the situation in NSW.

The Sunny coast can't sustain a team until around 2025 anyway so its a moot point. They don't have the population yet, although the local council has wisely put asside land for a 40k stadium in the future.

Manly's problems are more pressing, but can't be simply fixed by relocating - stadium, ownership issues, admin issues, neiche market. Stadium funding, ownership fights, admin, and reaching beyond current market aren't problems that are necissarily fixed by moving.

The NRL won't add another side to NSW when the situation is delicate currently, and it doesn't improve revenue streams from advertising and broadcast rights. They will probably go with Brisbane and Perth. Wether thats the Bombers/Corridor bid or something else...

I think the Sydney situation will come to a head during the next TV deal - 2018-2023. Relocation, fold or relegate... dunno which but something will change.

 

[gUt]

Maybe the Broncos could buy Manly and Cronulla and fund them out of our petty cash.

 

[Loudstrat]

You'll note I closely linked the whole discussion to the fate of the Central Coast bid. Bring them in and they claim to have stronger ties than the Sea Eagles to the north shore and a lot of the one third of Sydney you cite. If the Bears do come in and Manly stay put, now we're back to two franchises fighting each other for market share in this sponsor/fan catchment area. That'll end in tears for someone not too many years down the track as the costs of competing keep rising. If Manly are to stay put then the game's long term strategy is better suited in accepting a new Queensland side over the Bears.

Leigh

Quidge - you have lost it.

Firstly, why would Canterbury, Souths, Saints and Wests play a home game at the SFS???? You do realise that they have agreements elsewhere?

Secondly, you demand the Qld Govt build a better stadium that Skilled Park, and give them cheaper rates. You have more chance filling a stadium on the moon than that happening. Did you see the water damage in Queensland from last January? Guess where the state governments building budget is being spent in the next few years (plus the Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast).

Thirdly, you do realise that Middle Harbour represents a giant rift that separates Manly from North Sydney in such a way that neither will ever gain a following of any magnitude on the other side?

The only thing right about your opening post is what it would take to make it work. This could easily have been a post about what it would take to make the Titans move to Pakistan work. Its a f*cking rediculous post.

.......... there are 3 teams out west literally right next to each other, Dogs, Eels and Tigers, ..........

Drive from Parramatta to Belmore to Campbelltown, to Balmain and back to Parramatta. It would take you less time to drive from Manly to Cronulla and back. Therefore, we should merge Manly and Cronulla first? Idiot!

 

[Perth Red]

How is Manlys popularity waning? They regularly sell out home games and have big roll ups to finals and grand finals.

This years avg 13,121 and that was winning the comp, what would it be like if they came bottom for a few seasons? If they hadn't made and won the GF they would have lost $1.4mill this year, bit of a risk relying on a GF win to pull you out the mire every year.

re the argument fans prefer suburban grounds, consider this, not one single traditional suburban ground drew a bigger season avg than ANY of the modern stadia in the NRL.

 

[Danny-Boy]

That's the funniest part of the whole thing. You've got Manly who haven't spent more than they had to and are the most successful club of the past 5 years, and then you've got the big clubs spending all their money on stadiums, state of the art training facilities, signing big stars, signing successful coaches and so on. Just look at the Titans and Bulldogs, big spenders with nothing to show but wooden spoons.

 

[firechild]

You're kidding yourself

If you truly think substandard corporate areas, sub 15k capacity

Round 18 - Jul 8-11

​

MANLY-WARRINGAH SEA EAGLES 36
SOUTH SYDNEY RABBITOHS 22

Venue: Brookvale Oval, Brookvale, Sydney (NSW)
Crowd: 19,856

Idiot.

 

[firechild]

This years avg 13,121 and that was winning the comp, what would it be like if they came bottom for a few seasons? If they hadn't made and won the GF they would have lost $1.4mill this year, bit of a risk relying on a GF win to pull you out the mire every year.

re the argument fans prefer suburban grounds, consider this, not one single traditional suburban ground drew a bigger season avg than ANY of the modern stadia in the NRL.

We keep hearing about this "what if they spent a couple of years at the bottom?". The only time that has happened in the last 40 years was around the Northern Eagles days. Suggesting unlikely scenarios to make a point isn't of much use.