Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

[bobmar28]

You bemoan seeing your "club" being cut to second division to show you have understanding - yet you campaign for other clubs to be punted? You have no idea. Nice catchphrase "weak clubs that stunt the growth of the game" - but in reality that is a bullsh*t phrase because Perth would be no stronger or sucessful than at least three of those Sydney clubs you want to punt.

I assume you mean Cronulla, Manly, Souths and Penrith. Instantly alienating at least a million fans - what a bright idea. That will "grow" the game - the AFL game.

Perth will not be as strong as any of them bar maybe Cronulla. And there are no guarantees that they will last more than 5 weeks like last time. SO there is no point hacking away at the games heartland just so you can pull yourself stupid over the Reds.

You will get your admission WHEN they NRL expands to 18 teams (likely), or when an existing side falls over (unlikely - although it is most likely to be the Titans).

Face it - you are just a lunatic with a paranoia complex about Sydney.

If the IC was to let that happen and the AFL has the Gold Coast all to themselves then that would be the stupidest decision of all time.

 

[seaeagle sam]

That's exactly what should happen in this era of billion dollar TV contracts. If a club in a city as big as Sydney can't put bums on seats they have no business being in the NRL.

If they go arse up at their own doing not much anybody can do about I suppose but it will still alienate thousands.

He wants teams culled, which is basically f**ked. The end result of this is still alienation of thousands and thousands of fans with added side effect they will also hate the NRL.

 

[seaeagle sam]

If the IC was to let that happen and the AFL has the Gold Coast all to themselves then that would be the stupidest decision of all time.

So it's OK for Sydney clubs to fall over but if it happens to the Titans it's stupid.

 

[Perth Red]

I assume you mean Cronulla, Manly, Souths and Penrith. Instantly alienating at least a million fans - what a bright idea. That will "grow" the game - the AFL game.

.

A million fans?

You do realise that between them they have about 50k fans who can be ar5ed to pay to watch them and that the whole of Sydney has less than 1million casual fans who will watch the club game on Tv regularly don;t you? FFS the GF barely broke 1million viewers in Sydney. And you say I am the lunatic!

re the AFL, remind me again how strong RL became in melbourne when they relocated two heartland historic teams from out of the city. Paranoid? take a look in the mirror!

 

[Loudstrat]

Some say the Storm prop up the NRL. Your point?

Besides "they" never relocated anyone. The Swans volunteered the move. Fitzroy volunteered to merger. "They" tried to move North Melbourne, but "they" got told to f*ck off. A bit like we keep saying to the pro merge lobby (ie you) up here.

 

[Loudstrat]

That's exactly what should happen in this era of billion dollar TV contracts. If a club in a city as big as Sydney can't put bums on seats they have no business being in the NRL.

Which club has the most empty seats at home? Your mob. You no doubt agree they should be punted?

If the IC was to let that happen and the AFL has the Gold Coast all to themselves then that would be the stupidest decision of all time.

Hypocrite. You and Perth Red. LU's Dumb and Dumber.

 

[Perth Red]

Hypocrite. You and Perth Red. LU's Dumb and Dumber.

Tell us again how 4 of the lowest drawing teams have a million fans between them:crazy:

 

[Loudstrat]

They easily represent a population base of over 1 million people - one with the biggest junior numbers in the world.

Tell us again how the premiers are holding the game back and how your 5 week wonders will make the code live happily ever after.

 

[bobmar28]

If they go arse up at their own doing not much anybody can do about I suppose but it will still alienate thousands.

He wants teams culled, which is basically f**ked. The end result of this is still alienation of thousands and thousands of fans with added side effect they will also hate the NRL



If the only way to hang onto league fans is to have 9, mostly struggling, teams in one city then we should throw in the towel now.

On the other hand I think most people in this state love their league. Ok a few noses would be out of joint but I believe most people would tune in to watch league, who wouldn't want to watch the greatest game of all, especially if their team is merged. Anyone who turned to AFL because of it were not fans in the first place.

 

[bobmar28]

So it's OK for Sydney clubs to fall over but if it happens to the Titans it's stupid.

Queensland is rugby league heartland and we are in a battle for code supremacy so yes it would be stupid to hand the AFL a city of 600,000 and say take it, it's yours.

 

[seaeagle sam]

If they go arse up at their own doing not much anybody can do about I suppose but it will still alienate thousands.

He wants teams culled, which is basically f**ked. The end result of this is still alienation of thousands and thousands of fans with added side effect they will also hate the NRL



If the only way to hang onto league fans is to have 9, mostly struggling, teams in one city then we should throw in the towel now.

On the other hand I think most people in this state love their league. Ok a few noses would be out of joint but I believe most people would tune in to watch league, who wouldn't want to watch the greatest game of all, especially if their team is merged. Anyone who turned to AFL because of it were not fans in the first place.

I wasn't talking about League as such, I was talking about resentment and hatred toward the NRL. None of the people I know who have lost their club follow AFL.

Anyways, I respect your opinion, I just don't share it.

 

[Perth Red]

They easily represent a population base of over 1 million people - one with the biggest junior numbers in the world.

.

Nice backtrack now you've been made to look an ar5e! You never said they "represent" (whatever the frik that means?) you said the game would lose a million fans. By your reasoning we could cut those 4 teams add in perth and Wellington and we have more than doubled the "representation" of population size of those 4 teams. I like your thinking!

Reality is you don't need a club in every Sydney suburb for kids to follow and want to play the game. You need the game to have high profile, massive media interest, money, superstar pin up players, teams spread geographically to cover regions and great school and jnr programs.

But again I really don't care as long as the number of current clubs doesn;t stifle expansion and growth of the game, Perth will get a team eventually, we will be a one city club with a massive population and corporate support base and in many ways having Sydney clubs cannabilising off each other will only make it better for my clubs chances of success in the long run.

 

[rednblack]

On the other hand I think most people in this state love their league. Ok a few noses would be out of joint but I believe most people would tune in to watch league, who wouldn't want to watch the greatest game of all, especially if their team is merged. Anyone who turned to AFL because of it were not fans in the first place.

I guess that means I was never a fan in the first place then. Nor any of my family or friends.
I know a HELL of a lot of people who turned their backs on various joint ventures (not just the northern eagles), and many of them don't watch the NRL any more, despise the competition itself, and have either deserted the sport (for one of the AFL, a-league, or the rugby), or have otherwise maintained only a passing interest.
No doubt SOME would continue to watch the sport if their club fails, but if you think that "most" would do so, you're deluded (whether their team is kicked out OR merged).
Fans WILL be lost if and when another team disappears from the scene.

 

[Perth Red]

yet attendances are higher than ever and TV viewing is higher than ever despite a number of clubs merging or disappearing?

For many people they love the game. Yes they support their NRL club with a passion but they equally enjoy tuning in to watch neutral games, heading down the park to watch their kids playing under 9's or getting tickets to SOO. If your club was cut then yes I can see how many would turn away from the game feeling an injustice. If your club merged or relocated due to financial realities then I would think the likelihood of you walking away and following a game you have spent all your life despising would be very slim indeed.

You have to remember in Sydney there is around 120-140k fans who care enough to turn out and watch their team every other week. These are the "at risk ones" the other million or so who enjoy the game enough to tune in on TV but not enough to get off their backsides and get down to a game are unlikely to be lost imo.

pre merger Wests and Balmain avg'd under 17k fans between them, post merger they are averaging 17k fans, pre merger St's and Illawara avg'd under 17k, post merger they are averaging 16k this would suggest your argument is flawed? Aside from the Eagles debacle the experience of mergers in Sydney has not seen a downturn in viewing or attendance figures.

 

[Goddo]

It all boils down to what exactly the carrying capacity of each state is, and wether there is a balanced competition that reflects it.
I think for RL the carrying capacity of each state is as follows:

NSW = 10ish - demand for the game is strong enough for around 10 teams, but for them to be financially secure it requires a decent spread from the rest of the competition to ensure sufficient revenue from sponsors and TV rights.

Without a strong national footprint to drive advertising/sponsors I'd say its around 8/9 - hence why there is always 2-3 clubs struggling to make ends meet currently. The spread of the current licences is the problem.

QLD = 5 - easily room for two more, but thats where it should stop.


NZ = 1.5 - good location for future expansion.

VIC = 1 - Storm for now. eventually we will probably need a second team, but thats a long way off.

WA = 1 - 4th largest city, mining boom, timeslot, national footprint, sponsors.... obvious deficiency in our current set up.

ACT = 0.8 - really strugle to find sponsors in a tough market. Population and popularity strong enough, but need better corporate oportunites. Improved national footprint would help.

SA = 0.5 - Not big enough, league not strong enough. It is a target for the future, but not now.

Its interesting that carrying capacity of each state is dependent on the market reach of the game as a whole - the reason NSW has been able to sustain so many teams at the top level is that it has expanded to new markets in the past to improve the games reach.

 

[Loudstrat]

Nice backtrack now you've been made to look an ar5e! You never said they "represent" (whatever the frik that means?) you said the game would lose a million fans. By your reasoning we could cut those 4 teams add in perth and Wellington and we have more than doubled the "representation" of population size of those 4 teams. I like your thinking!

Here's how to find the holes in your brain. You reckon AFL and Union dont have the attention of the vast majority of people in Perth and Wellington?

Reality is you don't need a club in every Sydney suburb for kids to follow and want to play the game. You need the game to have high profile, massive media interest, money, superstar pin up players, teams spread geographically to cover regions and great school and jnr programs.

Firstly, Sydney is bigger than 8 1/2 suburbs. Secondly, we have a high profile, massive media interest, money, superstar pin up players, teams spread DEMOGRAPHICALLY (Geographically has nothing to do with people) and the best junior programs already.

But again I really don't care as long as the number of current clubs doesn;t stifle expansion and growth of the game, Perth will get a team eventually, we will be a one city club with a massive population and corporate support base

What, enouugh to last more than 5 weeks? :lol: Your population is not massive and what you have is vastly pro AFL.

and in many ways having Sydney clubs cannabilising off each other will only make it better for my clubs chances of success in the long run.

How? Sydney clubs will produce the juniors that you desperately need!

If the only way to hang onto league fans is to have 9, mostly struggling, teams in one city then we should throw in the towel now.

I love the spin of you Sydney haters. You do know that those 9 'mostly struggling' Sydney clubs have produced all but 8 legitimate premiers from the last 30 seasons since expansion began?

On the other hand I think most people in this state love their league. Ok a few noses would be out of joint but I believe most people would tune in to watch league, who wouldn't want to watch the greatest game of all, especially if their team is merged. Anyone who turned to AFL because of it were not fans in the first place.

OK, life has only 2 choices: watch League or watch AFL? You would lose thousands with each killed off club. The NRL simply cannot afford to kill anybody. This isn't Super League where they wanted to kill off everybody and halt expansion you know.

yet attendances are higher than ever and TV viewing is higher than ever despite a number of clubs merging or disappearing?

Only one club disappeared that anyone gave a rats about - The Bears.

For many people they love the game. Yes they support their NRL club with a passion but they equally enjoy tuning in to watch neutral games, heading down the park to watch their kids playing under 9's or getting tickets to SOO. If your club was cut then yes I can see how many would turn away from the game feeling an injustice. If your club merged or relocated due to financial realities then I would think the likelihood of you walking away and following a game you have spent all your life despising would be very slim indeed.

And if clubs were forced to merge for a bullsh*t reason like admitting a half-arsed chance from an AFL city? You would lose a sh*tload more than you'd gain. No one is about to merge or die anyway. And certainly Perth is not ever going to be more than a small to medium club anyway, so stop painting it up to be the savour of the world.

You have to remember in Sydney there is around 120-140k fans who care enough to turn out and watch their team every other week. These are the "at risk ones" the other million or so who enjoy the game enough to tune in on TV but not enough to get off their backsides and get down to a game are unlikely to be lost imo.

pre merger Wests and Balmain avg'd under 17k fans between them, post merger they are averaging 17k fans, pre merger St's and Illawara avg'd under 17k, post merger they are averaging 16k this would suggest your argument is flawed? Aside from the Eagles debacle the experience of mergers in Sydney has not seen a downturn in viewing or attendance figures.[/QUOTE]

 

[Perth Red]

I assume you mean Cronulla, Manly, Souths and Penrith. Instantly alienating at least a million fans

:crazy:

 

[bobmar28]

I guess that means I was never a fan in the first place then. Nor any of my family or friends.
I know a HELL of a lot of people who turned their backs on various joint ventures (not just the northern eagles), and many of them don't watch the NRL any more, despise the competition itself, and have either deserted the sport (for one of the AFL, a-league, or the rugby), or have otherwise maintained only a passing interest.
No doubt SOME would continue to watch the sport if their club fails, but if you think that "most" would do so, you're deluded (whether their team is kicked out OR merged).
Fans WILL be lost if and when another team disappears from the scene.

Rugby league is the greatest game of all and there is no other code I would rather watch. So imo anyone who refuses to watch league and turned to AFL instead were never a fan in the first place. Even though several teams have failed or merged there are more league fans today than ever before.

 

[seaeagle sam]

The peoples' game has gone. It's all about growth, TV ratings and money from Rupert. A business, not a game watched and loved by many people.

 

[Goddo]

The peoples' game has gone. It's all about growth, TV ratings and money from Rupert. A business, not a game watched and loved by many people.

Thats a nieve point of view. The sport is still great, but the way its played and where its played has to evolve with the times. It needs to grow, or otherwise it becomes stagnant.

Hell, thats why they adopted league over union in 1908 - it was "new" rugby. Better. Its why the game has expanded from the original 9 clubs. And Rugby League today is stronger than ever. The game was at its strongest in the early 90s, because it persued national expansion and growth as a core value. It was the game of choice for sponsors and TV.

You can't have it both ways - it can't be a big growing, improving national sport raking in big money which is spent on the game AND be a local Sydney competition.