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Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

Spitty

Juniors
Messages
1,113
Look at things logically.

Channel 9, the organisation with the largest financial interest in NRL TV ratings have openly stated several times that they'd rather have another Qld team.

A confidential report in the CC Bears bid, states that CC Bears could potentially equal the ratings of an additional Qld team.

When considering who could bring more TV money to the game, the IC would consider what the current ratings pattern suggests and what the broadcasters of the game would be willing to pay for, rather than a report which covers a hypothetical future projection of TV ratings.

BTW who commissioned and paid for the report that says the CC Bears could obtain equal rating? Not being a smart arse to prove a point, genuinely interested.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
Messages
720
Look at things logically.

BTW who commissioned and paid for the report that says the CC Bears could obtain equal rating? Not being a smart arse to prove a point, genuinely interested.

Fair enough - it was commissioned by the Bears using monies allocated by the State Govt for the bid. I know that sounds like it may result in biased reporting, but its not like a Govt report where the investigators are 'told' what results to derive! This was conducted by an independent market research company who are not affiliated in any way with the Bears....

And re Ch9 comments, I agree with you on what they have said PUBLICLY. What many are doing on forums is trying to draw a conclusion on what they think is the full picture, when its only half the info available. Time will reveal all.
 
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rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
I am guessing he means that the opponents of that team for that game will also get increased exposure into WA and more into Q'land?

Ok, but if a sponsor of a club considers themselves "local" to that club, why would they want exposure elsewhere? We're bombarded with the argument that there aren't enough sponsorship dollars in Sydney, and that NSW clubs can only attract sponsors front a limited NSW-centric pool of corporations, so with this in mind, how can a sponsor such as a building and development company on the northern beaches (for example) benefit from increased exposure into Perth or Melbourne or Brisbane or Auckland?
If his argument, however, is that there are more opportunities for new teams in those locations, then I'll ask again, how does this benefit "every club"?
You can't have it both ways - either it benefits all clubs, by virtue of the fact that it really doesn't matter where the sponsors come from, meaning that there is no problem with the sponsorship pool in NSW, and adding another NSW team will not cause any problems to other current clubs. Alternatively, adding a new qld team inherently benefits that team above other existing clubs by way of offering them virtually unchallenged TV exposure (and doesn't benefit existing clubs' exposure levels at all, as claimed above).
Which is it?
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Ok, but if a sponsor of a club considers themselves "local" to that club, why would they want exposure elsewhere? We're bombarded with the argument that there aren't enough sponsorship dollars in Sydney, and that NSW clubs can only attract sponsors front a limited NSW-centric pool of corporations, so with this in mind, how can a sponsor such as a building and development company on the northern beaches (for example) benefit from increased exposure into Perth or Melbourne or Brisbane or Auckland?
If his argument, however, is that there are more opportunities for new teams in those locations, then I'll ask again, how does this benefit "every club"?
You can't have it both ways - either it benefits all clubs, by virtue of the fact that it really doesn't matter where the sponsors come from, meaning that there is no problem with the sponsorship pool in NSW, and adding another NSW team will not cause any problems to other current clubs. Alternatively, adding a new qld team inherently benefits that team above other existing clubs by way of offering them virtually unchallenged TV exposure (and doesn't benefit existing clubs' exposure levels at all, as claimed above).
Which is it?

Sponsors pay for market reach. Depends on the sponsor what their market is. So you are right in that small/local sponsors won't be able to or willing to pay more.

There was an article in a newspaper about 2 years ago talking about how one of the indirect effects of the AFL expanding in NSW and Queensland was that it improved the market reach of club sponsors, and there would be an improvement in sponsorship value.

So sponsors like NRMA, St George Bank, Toyota, Harvey Norman, Steggles would be expected to pay more for the better reach.

This is currently a problem in NSW, with 11 clubs (including Canberra) fighting for the same sponsors with the same market reach, where their main revenue source is a result of free to air TV exposure.

Only so many can get on TV each week, and when the game usually wants to show interstate games each week to tap into other markets it makes it hard.

Take Canberra, its main sponsor is worth something like $700,000 per year, $400,000 to $500,000 less than say a club like St George or Canterbury. Yet Canberra still can't find a sponsor because they are never on TV. Cronulla and Penrith are in a similar position.

Now, what if we expand in NSW and it becomes 12 clubs competing for no extra free to air spots? That pie gets cut even smaller, and the games reach isn't improved.

The advantage of a Queensland club is that it provides content into Queensland, especially Brisbane, every week. There are big sponsors that might be interested in sponsorship but can't because the market is exclusively the Broncos. Take a rival for NRMA, WoW and so on. Let alone companies like QR National, Suncorp, et cetera.

Interesting that you bring up the Warriors, whos major sponsor is Vodaphone. Telstra very stictly control the communications sponsor rights to the NRL, yet they don't apply in NZ. Which allows the Warriors to have a lucrative deal with a big communications company.

And often with sponsors it has nothing to do with the team being sponsored. Take GWS. No one gives a Karmichael Hunt about GWS. Yet they managed to get a big sponsorship deal with Skoda. Why?

Because Skoda's advertising campaign for 2012 is aimed at improving market penetration nationally in Australia. It sees an AFL sponsorship as the best way to achieve it along with a TV commercial campaign.

They get some attention in Sydney because GWS is new and in the press, and they get huge attention in Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne.

EDIT - and it will work too. Skoda will likely sell more cars in 2012 than in 2011.

These financial drivers are why we didn't see Tasmania or the Bendigo Bumwarmers win expansion in the AFL. The same forces and presures are at work in our game.

This is why Perth and Brisbane are very much the favourites for expansion. Doesn't matter how good the Bears bid is, it simply can't compete on these issues.
 
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Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,586
Well there we have it. You think the Bears are as valuable to TV as another Brisbane bid.

:lol:

Not only are they as valuable to TV as any current Brisbane bid but with the bids that are coming from SEQLD at the moment, I believe we are more valuable. The Bombers flopped, regardless of what your opinion is they simply flopped. They were a spur of the moment idea with no concrete work or foundations laid, they neglected important aspects such as community engagement from the get go and therefore the people rejected the idea. Doesn't matter what the newspapers say or print, it's fact. I know because I live in Brisbane, I know because I'm involved with RL in Brisbane, I know because I work with the blue collars whom attend NRL games every other week.

The Bears are a known brand in RL circles, they are a known brand in national sport circles. They have a rich history, they were the peripheral underdogs. They have more support in QLD than what you can imagine, they were quite simply most people's 2nd team for a long time due to being the battlers.

All this is important when concerning TV value because if a team can win the hearts and minds of the watches, they have every chance of prospering both in their own community and in the wider Rugby League community. It's not only a sentimental aspect but a financially strong sticking point. With a tad under 1000 members from QLD alone, it may not seem like much but it's a point which can not be under stated. It's a point which proves that the market value goes beyond just the Central Coast or North Sydney. It's the Bears brand which hosts the pulling power. Under value that as much as you want, corporate dollars and over all fan support tell a completely different story to what you've been spinning around here.


I support your bid but please stick to selling your strong points. This is a bit ridiculous
It's hard for you to say that though. You don't know as much about the bid as I do, nor have you worked with and around the bid itself. You see the bid as just that, a bid. I see the bid as an opportunity, a little piece of happiness which can/may/will be added to my life. My dedication goes beyond simple quotes, news feed and updates. I live and breathe the Bears, like beowulf, like red&black, like many others. Whilst I don't live on the Central Coast or North Sydney, I do what I can from Brisbane, from SEQLD including keeping up to date with the rival bids from here and sharing whatever information I can gather. Whilst I thought for many months that our TV value might have been slightly lower than SE QLD's, I then started to see the support we actually have in SEQLD. Not just members but general support. That's when I realized that our pulling power in SEQLD is a lot greater than I thought. TV value stems from such support.
 
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Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,586
Sponsors pay for market reach. Depends on the sponsor what their market is. So you are right in that small/local sponsors won't be able to or willing to pay more.

There was an article in a newspaper about 2 years ago talking about how one of the indirect effects of the AFL expanding in NSW and Queensland was that it improved the market reach of club sponsors, and there would be an improvement in sponsorship value.

So sponsors like NRMA, St George Bank, Toyota, Harvey Norman, Steggles would be expected to pay more for the better reach.

This is currently a problem in NSW, with 11 clubs (including Canberra) fighting for the same sponsors with the same market reach, where their main revenue source is a result of free to air TV exposure.

Only so many can get on TV each week, and when the game usually wants to show interstate games each week to tap into other markets it makes it hard.

Take Canberra, its main sponsor is worth something like $700,000 per year, $400,000 to $500,000 less than say a club like St George or Canterbury. Yet Canberra still can't find a sponsor because they are never on TV. Cronulla and Penrith are in a similar position.

Now, what if we expand in NSW and it becomes 12 clubs competing for no extra free to air spots? That pie gets cut even smaller, and the games reach isn't improved.

The advantage of a Queensland club is that it provides content into Queensland, especially Brisbane, every week. There are big sponsors that might be interested in sponsorship but can't because the market is exclusively the Broncos. Take a rival for NRMA, WoW and so on. Let alone companies like QR National, Suncorp, et cetera.

Interesting that you bring up the Warriors, whos major sponsor is Vodaphone. Telstra very stictly control the communications sponsor rights to the NRL, yet they don't apply in NZ. Which allows the Warriors to have a lucrative deal with a big communications company.

And often with sponsors it has nothing to do with the team being sponsored. Take GWS. No one gives a Karmichael Hunt about GWS. Yet they managed to get a big sponsorship deal with Skoda. Why?

Because Skoda's advertising campaign for 2012 is aimed at improving market penetration nationally in Australia. It sees an AFL sponsorship as the best way to achieve it along with a TV commercial campaign.

They get some attention in Sydney because GWS is new and in the press, and they get huge attention in Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne.

EDIT - and it will work too. Skoda will likely sell more cars in 2012 than in 2011.

These financial drivers are why we didn't see Tasmania or the Bendigo Bumwarmers win expansion in the AFL. The same forces and presures are at work in our game.

This is why Perth and Brisbane are very much the favourites for expansion. Doesn't matter how good the Bears bid is, it simply can't compete on these issues.

Sorry but what an irrelevant response. We have more sponsors and corporate support than any other bid and that's as a bid, multiple multi-million dollar deals, as a bid. Secured revenue, finances from such corporate support as a bid. Not a team, not a license franchise but as a bid. We have had a major sponsor pull out only for us to get another couple worth more, as a bid. Such commitments shouldn't be taken likely. If we can achieve this as a bid, while some teams find it hard to as licenses franchises then a) what does that say about those teams and b) what does that say about our bid?

These financial drivers you speak of, see our potential. They understand that we aren't a new brand who need stickers all over the logo and jersey's. They see us as a brand with multi generational support streaming across states, they see it as a opportunity to not only be part of something great (bringing back the Bears) but they also can use that as a rebirth of sorts themselves in the context of a national sports team sponsor. It's a great marketing opportunity, a low risk commitment and a high gain exercise. These corporate heavies and financial sponsors obviously see something in the bid which you cannot.
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
Not only are they as valuable to TV as any current Brisbane bid but with the bids that are coming from SEQLD at the moment, I believe we are more valuable. The Bombers flopped, regardless of what your opinion is they simply flopped. They were a spur of the moment idea with no concrete work or foundations laid, they neglected important aspects such as community engagement from the get go and therefore the people rejected the idea. Doesn't matter what the newspapers say or print, it's fact. I know because I live in Brisbane, I know because I'm involved with RL in Brisbane, I know because I work with the blue collars whom attend NRL games every other week.

The Bears are a known brand in RL circles, they are a known brand in national sport circles. They have a rich history, they were the peripheral underdogs. They have more support in QLD than what you can imagine, they were quite simply most people's 2nd team for a long time due to being the battlers.

All this is important when concerning TV value because if a team can win the hearts and minds of the watches, they have every chance of prospering both in their own community and in the wider Rugby League community. It's not only a sentimental aspect but a financially strong sticking point. With a tad under 1000 members from QLD alone, it may not seem like much but it's a point which can not be under stated. It's a point which proves that the market value goes beyond just the Central Coast or North Sydney. It's the Bears brand which hosts the pulling power. Under value that as much as you want, corporate dollars and over all fan support tell a completely different story to what you've been spinning around here.



It's hard for you to say that though. You don't know as much about the bid as I do, nor have you worked with and around the bid itself. You see the bid as just that, a bid. I see the bid as an opportunity, a little piece of happiness which can/may/will be added to my life. My dedication goes beyond simple quotes, news feed and updates. I live and breathe the Bears, like beowulf, like red&black, like many others. Whilst I don't live on the Central Coast or North Sydney, I do what I can from Brisbane, from SEQLD including keeping up to date with the rival bids from here and sharing whatever information I can gather. Whilst I thought for many months that our TV value might have been slightly lower than SE QLD's, I then started to see the support we actually have in SEQLD. Not just members but general support. That's when I realized that our pulling power in SEQLD is a lot greater than I thought. TV value stems from such support.


If you live in Brisbane and are involved in RL in Brisbane what's this obsession with the CC Bears? QLD doesn't have enough teams. NSW has too many.


Regarding the TV rights value, as I have said before - simply ask the networks where the next teams should go and how much they would pay. That will settle the argument.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Sorry but what an irrelevant response. We have more sponsors and corporate support than any other bid and that's as a bid, multiple multi-million dollar deals, as a bid. Secured revenue, finances from such corporate support as a bid. Not a team, not a license franchise but as a bid. We have had a major sponsor pull out only for us to get another couple worth more, as a bid. Such commitments shouldn't be taken likely. If we can achieve this as a bid, while some teams find it hard to as licenses franchises then a) what does that say about those teams and b) what does that say about our bid?

These financial drivers you speak of, see our potential. They understand that we aren't a new brand who need stickers all over the logo and jersey's. They see us as a brand with multi generational support streaming across states, they see it as a opportunity to not only be part of something great (bringing back the Bears) but they also can use that as a rebirth of sorts themselves in the context of a national sports team sponsor. It's a great marketing opportunity, a low risk commitment and a high gain exercise. These corporate heavies and financial sponsors obviously see something in the bid which you cannot.
:roll:

Here we go again. Ask yourself these questions:

How is the impact of expanding on other clubs and the competition wide revenue and sponsorships irrelevant?

The current clubs won't think its irrelevant. The IC wont think its irrelevant. In fact it will be one of their foremost thoughts, creating financial security for the game.

Any expansion has to make sense in the context of the competition as it is now.

Cudos on getting more sponsors than other bids. How many are small local companies?

Have you asked yourself why the game should expand?

Your only concern as an old North Sydney Bears fan who comes from a family of North Sydney Bears fans (who live in Ipswich) is reviving a dead club.

You don't care about the Central Coast. You don't care about the NRL as a competition and where the game is going. Your only concern is reviving the Bears, and you would say or do anything to make it happen.

And thats the truth.
;-)
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
http://centralcoastbears.com.au/Bid-Partners

http://centralcoastbears.com.au/Foundation-Partners

+ Bluetongue Stadium

+ John Singleton via. his company

+ more to be announced early in the new year.
So, theres a stadium thats 80% owned by Singleton, 20% by the Bears.
John Singleton who was involved in the failed 2007 bid - remember he didn't get you over the line last time, and
"More to be anounced"
And the rest are local radio, local Harvey Norman branch and so on.

What ever happened to Mortgage House?

:sarcasm:
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
The Bombers flopped, regardless of what your opinion is they simply flopped. They were a spur of the moment idea with no concrete work or foundations laid, they neglected important aspects such as community engagement from the get go and therefore the people rejected the idea. Doesn't matter what the newspapers say or print, it's fact. I know because I live in Brisbane, I know because I'm involved with RL in Brisbane, I know because I work with the blue collars whom attend NRL games every other week.
:lol:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/s...-1226220323801

http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_...e-shortly.html
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
This says nothing. It gives absolutely no detail, apart from "It's in the bid" - exactly what you and others accuse the CC bid of doing.
I don't see the point of your post.
The point was Red&Black was claiming the Bombers bid was a flash in the pan and is now dead and burried. The articles I linked are simply to point out that isn't the case, and that they are about to launch various aspects of their bid, including merchandise, membership, community projects and so on.

(I still don't support them for a couple of reasons, mainly I think a metro region bid like Western Corridor or Sunshine Coast is preferable to a generic Brisbane side)

In fact, in the last few weeks PNG and Perth have done the same. Ipswich has something similar brewing. The bids have been keeping their powder dry until the IC stuff was settled, and they are all now making positive moves.

The bids are about to start fighting. Should be entertaining.
 

rednblack

Juniors
Messages
275
So, theres a stadium thats 80% owned by Singleton, 20% by the Bears.
John Singleton who was involved in the failed 2007 bid - remember he didn't get you over the line last time, and
"More to be anounced"
And the rest are local radio, local Harvey Norman branch and so on.
:sarcasm:

Again, what is your point?
You seem to have a problem with sponsors such as local radio stations... Aren't Brisbane sponsored by B105 - a local radio station?
The fact that the last CC bid was unsuccessful is irrelevant. The fact that sponsors have preserved in the meantime is testament to their strong feelings associated with this bid and the Bears brand. I don't get what you're trying to say by bringing this up - I can only assume you're trolling, in which case you should desist or bugger off.
Lastly, name a single bid team that has NOT told us that more sponsors are going to be announced. They ALL have, just look at thy bombers article you linked to above.
We Bears supporters have thicker skin than you think buddy, and I'll delight in rubbing your nose in it particularly when the day comes that the Bears are announced as successful applicants to the NRL. We've put up with the likes of you for so long now, your poor attempts at trolling won't put us off at this stage in the game.
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,586

What's your point? It states nothing new. It's news stories to basically keep them in the media lime light. You, yourself have pointed out the reasons why Bombers isn't the right model yet because you're arguing with me, now all those reasons become magically valid points? You're lost in your own argument and have no consistency or continuity with it.
 

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,586
So, theres a stadium thats 80% owned by Singleton, 20% by the Bears.
John Singleton who was involved in the failed 2007 bid - remember he didn't get you over the line last time, and
"More to be anounced"
And the rest are local radio, local Harvey Norman branch and so on.

What ever happened to Mortgage House?

:sarcasm:

Mortage House had internal problems and to our credit we managed to get 2 more major sponsors worth more straight after it. John Singleton sees the benefits , after running the last bid he now puts more money down on us without the personal involvement. Our stadium sponsors us, meaning bugger all attendances needed to break even. Harvey Norman actually have more involvement than what you think . We have 3 regional tv networks and 3 radio stations as well. All highlights which somehow only you see as down sides? You really are a lost one.
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
What's your point? It states nothing new. It's news stories to basically keep them in the media lime light. You, yourself have pointed out the reasons why Bombers isn't the right model yet because you're arguing with me, now all those reasons become magically valid points? You're lost in your own argument and have no consistency or continuity with it.

The point is a QLD bid is a certainty for expansion. So is Perth. The CC Bears are also a certainty but only if a Sydney team falls over.
 

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