Expansion, Manly and the Coasts

[Loudstrat]

So now their crowds are reasonable :lol:

You are all over the friggin place.

The article states that the owners simply didnt have to put that money in - money that would be less if they had a major sponsor.

Face it - you have no f*cking idea how RL runs!

 

[Perth Red]

15K is reasonable (FOR THEM) for a Sydney suburb team, not good and in the light of a succesful season reasonable is probably generous. Yeh losing $1.4mill a year is a sustainable way to run a business, would love to see your annual report if you was CEO of a company. So they don;t have a major sponsor. Lets get this right, they have a small fan base, little corporate support, a dump for a ground, yet they are essential to the future of RL in Australia? lol

Face it you have no fricking idea full stop!

 

[Loudstrat]

No club is essential.

That doesnt mean they are suddenly going to fall over Einstein.

And do they lose 14 million every year? Didnt News Ltd recently lose a couple of BILLION in a QUARTER?

A few posts above I explained why clubs dont just relocate for the sake of it - you ignored that. I also explained the dismal success rate of relocated clubs - you ignore that too. In your world, clubs should be able to relocate at the drop of a hat, and by doing so we will all live happily ever after.

You are further from reality than anywhere else - and for an isolated place like Perth that is saying something.

 

[Perth Red]

But a reality check is needed. Manly will not relocate. There is nowhere on the agenda (read Sunny Coast, Perth, Wellington or CQ) that can sustain a club better than the Northern Beaches.

.

The Northern Beaches is struggling to sustain a club, I don't doubt relocation would have its problems but to suggest major cities like Wellington or Perth would have more trouble sustaining an NRL club than a couple of suburbs in a massively overcrowded market is laughable.

No NRL club has relocated to another city so we have no precident if it would be succesful or not.

Finally on this matter (as quite frankly I really don't care if Manly stay or move, as long as it isn't to Perth) I agree Manly will not relocate, the NRL does not have the vision, money or balls to deal with its Sydney/National problem and Manly will be hanging out in the vain hope that the new TV deal is going to make them sustainable.

 

[seaeagle sam]

The Northern Beaches is struggling to sustain a club, I don't doubt relocation would have its problems but to suggest major cities like Wellington or Perth would have more trouble sustaining an NRL club than a couple of suburbs in a massively overcrowded market is laughable.

No NRL club has relocated to another city so we have no precident if it would be succesful or not.

Finally on this matter (as quite frankly I really don't care if Manly stay or move, as long as it isn't to Perth) I agree Manly will not relocate, the NRL does not have the vision, money or balls to deal with its Sydney/National problem and Manly will be hanging out in the vain hope that the new TV deal is going to make them sustainable.

Mate, Manly is doing OK. Ground upgrade and sustainable, long-term sponsorship and we will go from strength to strength.
The club has battled under the same conditions for a decade now and we still get by, even win a premiership of two.
If the Peninsular couldn't sustain a team we would have been goneski ages ago and yet we still seem to be able to hang in there much to the annoyance of a you and others.
In terms of your belief the the club is hanging out for a slice of the TV deal pie to make us sustainable - is it your opinion or can you show a source for that? I'd say it's the former and has little substance. The TV will help all clubs a bit, but for MWRLFC the upgrade of Brooky and sustainable, long-term sponsor, as I said in my first paragraph would do the trick just nicely.

 

[seaeagle sam]

Perth Red, I'm not sure what your agenda is with this issue. Is it you want Sydney teams to fold so others such as Perth and Central Coast get a leg-up?

 

[Loudstrat]

He wants the Super League dream. 3 NSW sides, and News Ltd propping up Perth. That's why they wallpapered his room with rubber a few months ago

The Northern Beaches is struggling to sustain a club, I don't doubt relocation would have its problems but to suggest major cities like Wellington or Perth would have more trouble sustaining an NRL club than a couple of suburbs in a massively overcrowded market is laughable.

You are truly the most idiotic, brain dead f*ckwit ever to manage to exist without life support. We know how long Perth could sustain a club. If I recall, it was 5 weeks :lol:

Compare that to, what, 64 years, 8 premierships, 18 grand finals.........

No NRL club has relocated to another city so we have no precident if it would be succesful or not.

Gosford? Campbelltown?

Finally on this matter (as quite frankly I really don't care if Manly stay or move, as long as it isn't to Perth) I agree Manly will not relocate, the NRL does not have the vision, money or balls to deal with its Sydney/National problem and Manly will be hanging out in the vain hope that the new TV deal is going to make them sustainable.

THERE IS NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only problem is in your head!

I know you dont have the ability to think, but since 1982 when the comp expanded outside Sydney, do you know how many non Sydney teams have won premierships without breaking the salary cap or getting massive funding from News Ltd?

One, dipsh*t. One. And guess where that club is? Newcastle - one hour drive north of Sydney.

You have been here for years like the LU buzzard waiting for a carcass to appear. I still recall you campaigning to punt Penrith because it had no juniors :lol: Now you are on about the Premiers.

And you think your stupid isolated AFL obsessed city - and it's long and proud 5 week history of self sufficiency is a better bet than the team that currently holds the trophy.

Get back into your rubber room, buzzard boy. There might still be some meat left on the Western Reds carcass, but you wont find any in Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

He wants the Super League dream. 3 NSW sides, and News Ltd propping up Perth. That's why they wallpapered his room with rubber a few months ago
You are truly the most idiotic, brain dead f*ckwit ever to manage to exist without life support. We know how long Perth could sustain a club. If I recall, it was 5 weeks :lol:

Compare that to, what, 64 years, 8 premierships, 18 grand finals.........

Gosford? Campbelltown?


THERE IS NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only problem is in your head!

I know you dont have the ability to think, but since 1982 when the comp expanded outside Sydney, do you know how many non Sydney teams have won premierships without breaking the salary cap or getting massive funding from News Ltd?

One, dipsh*t. One. And guess where that club is? Newcastle - one hour drive north of Sydney.

You have been here for years like the LU buzzard waiting for a carcass to appear. I still recall you campaigning to punt Penrith because it had no juniors :lol: Now you are on about the Premiers.

And you think your stupid isolated AFL obsessed city - and it's long and proud 5 week history of self sufficiency is a better bet than the team that currently holds the trophy.

Get back into your rubber room, buzzard boy. There might still be some meat left on the Western Reds carcass, but you wont find any in Sydney.

Hope you feel better for that!

 

[Perth Red]

Perth Red, I'm not sure what your agenda is with this issue. Is it you want Sydney teams to fold so others such as Perth and Central Coast get a leg-up?

No agenda other than I think RL is the best game in the world and its growth and development has been poorly managed and in many ways stunted by nepotism, poor leadership and short sightedness.

Like many I can see the game needs to grow and get stronger and there are probably 4 key places in Australia/NZ that need to be developed over the next 20-30 years (I don;t think the sunshine coast is one by the way!). It is hard to see the NRL ever going to a 20 team league again so the unpalatable and difficult decision is how do you become what you can be? I have said many times I would hate to have to be the one making the decisions on how we develop the game in this part of the world as you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, don;t grow and stay as we are and take the risk that entails in the long term or grow but have to take the pain of deciding who goes in order for that growth to take place. It is a very hard decision and not one I would like to have to make as having seen my lifelong club drop out of the top league and spend decades wallowing in second division misery and having had a team that never even got chance to learn to walk before losing it I know first hand how painful it is. However here I am still a RL fan, still believing the game has huge potential and still doing what I can do to help the game grow in a developing area.

 

[seaeagle sam]

No agenda other than I think RL is the best game in the world and its growth and development has been poorly managed and in many ways stunted by nepotism, poor leadership and short sightedness.

Like many I can see the game needs to grow and get stronger and there are probably 4 key places in Australia/NZ that need to be developed over the next 20-30 years (I don;t think the sunshine coast is one by the way!). It is hard to see the NRL ever going to a 20 team league again so the unpalatable and difficult decision is how do you become what you can be? I have said many times I would hate to have to be the one making the decisions on how we develop the game in this part of the world as you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, don;t grow and stay as we are and take the risk that entails in the long term or grow but have to take the pain of deciding who goes in order for that growth to take place. It is a very hard decision and not one I would like to have to make as having seen my lifelong club drop out of the top league and spend decades wallowing in second division misery and having had a team that never even got chance to learn to walk before losing it I know first hand how painful it is. However here I am still a RL fan, still believing the game has huge potential and still doing what I can do to help the game grow in a developing area.

OK, after reading that twice, you do want a leg up at the expense of other clubs. Not only that, you want the NRL or IC to put a/or clubs down, in order for this to happen.

The team you lost before it 'even got a chance to learn to walk,' is what... Perth? It has to be I suppose. Please I hope not.

 

[SRB_SEA_EAGLE]

gee..i wonder what sort of crowds manly would get with a proper stadium and facilities, considering the success they have had over the last 40 years ?? the attendance by manly fans particularly from out side the northern beaches is largely dependant on the weather..somehow they still get get crowds with an ancient hill, shyte canteens and dunnies and no roof for about 85 % of the capacity....i know id buy a season tickets straight away for myself and family of 4 if i could be guaranteed a seat somewhere on the hill side of the ground........

 

[Beowulf]

gee..i wonder what sort of crowds manly would get with a proper stadium and facilities, considering the success they have had over the last 40 years ?? the attendance by manly fans particularly from out side the northern beaches is largely dependant on the weather..somehow they still get get crowds with an ancient hill, shyte canteens and dunnies and no roof for about 85 % of the capacity....i know id buy a season tickets straight away for myself and family of 4 if i could be guaranteed a seat somewhere on the hill side of the ground........

Agree they would increase, but there will never be a major refurb of Brookie given its in a safe electorate. Their long term fate is SFS if they remain in Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

OK, after reading that twice, you do want a leg up at the expense of other clubs. Not only that, you want the NRL or IC to put a/or clubs down, in order for this to happen.

The team you lost before it 'even got a chance to learn to walk,' is what... Perth? It has to be I suppose. Please I hope not.

not sure what you mean by "leg up"? I want to see a 16 team comp with Perth, Wellington, Brisbane2 and Gosford (if the Bears are to be believed) in it. I want to see weak clubs not be allowed to stunt the growth of the game and I want to see RL be available to be enjoyed in as many places as possible. If that's a "leg up" then ok that is what I want.

 

[seaeagle sam]

not sure what you mean by "leg up"? I want to see a 16 team comp with Perth, Wellington, Brisbane2 and Gosford (if the Bears are to be believed) in it. I want to see weak clubs not be allowed to stunt the growth of the game and I want to see RL be available to be enjoyed in as many places as possible. If that's a "leg up" then ok that is what I want.

Leg up as in making room for your 'dream' by culling teams.

I agree new franchises are an excellent way to promote the growth of the NRL. Culling teams to promote that growth is not the answer.

I would know at least a dozen people who were lifelong club supporters who now don't bother with the NRL any more, in fact hate it. Care to take a guess at what clubs they supported?

Also, there are thousands of fans in the bush, interstate and overseas the NRL would alienate if they pissed off teams from the comp.

 

[seaeagle sam]

Agree they would increase, but there will never be a major refurb of Brookie given its in a safe electorate. Their long term fate is SFS if they remain in Sydney.

I agree a conservative, safe seat makes it frigging hard. There is also Warringah Council which would rather see Brookvale Oval returned to pre-settlement days so people could go there and hug the trees and dance nude among the snakes.

But it will happen and i think it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Goddo]

not sure what you mean by "leg up"? I want to see a 16 team comp with Perth, Wellington, Brisbane2 and Gosford (if the Bears are to be believed) in it. I want to see weak clubs not be allowed to stunt the growth of the game and I want to see RL be available to be enjoyed in as many places as possible. If that's a "leg up" then ok that is what I want.

Well, you don't have to worry about Perth, they are just about guarnteed entry with expansion. Too valuable to pass up.

Its everyone else fighting for what will probably be the only other new spot for the next 15 years. The best commercial decision would be Brisbane Bombers, but the NRL has other considerations to weigh that against.

I think Gallop and the NRL favour the "satelite" set up in Brisbane, given all the noise about Queensland before bids got going was the "Ipswich-Logan Corridor" or "Sunshine Coast". Future behaviour is conditioned by past experiences - Gallop wasn't talking about "Western Corridor" for sh!ts and giggles.

I think the reason they favour that kind of model over the two Brisbanes situation is partly to:

* tap into suburban belts with lots of fans of the right demographics,
* get infrastructure spending and community involvement from the Qld gov (which squeezes others out - the Lions wanted to set up their high performance base in Springfield, which is now shelved because of the Ipswich bid), and
* so that expansion doesn't have an adverse effect on the Broncos core market/strength in Brisbane, yet still taps into the Brisbane metro ratings and sponsorship oportunities.

If its Qld, I am pretty sure it will be Ipswich-Logan, temporarily playing out of Suncorp for 5-10 years.

With Sydney market rationalisation, who knows? Maybe with a better national footprint the current clubs will become far stronger (through sponsors and TV rights). Its too complex a situation, which is why its unlikely for the NRL to be adding another side to the mix.

 

[dangerousdave]

not sure what you mean by "leg up"? I want to see a 16 team comp with Perth, Wellington, Brisbane2 and Gosford (if the Bears are to be believed) in it. I want to see weak clubs not be allowed to stunt the growth of the game and I want to see RL be available to be enjoyed in as many places as possible. If that's a "leg up" then ok that is what I want.

:shock: You forgot Adelaide!

 

[Goddo]

The problem is, the bidding team that's trying to be a new identity (Brisbane Bombers) doesn't seem to be gaining much traction with fans. I wonder if this relative lack-of-support will make the NRL favour the satellite-style set-up (Jets in the West, Broncos in central Brisbane, Sunshine Coast/Redcliffe to the north) ?

I think the lack of public backing for the Bombers bid has to do with the fact Brisbane fans either support the Broncos or out of town sides, and while it makes commercial sense there is little attachement to the brand.

Thats where a brand that embraces a part of Brisbane with a defined identity would be more successful - Ipswich or Sunshine Coast...

New Zealand has problems that will take at least 5 years to fix before we can have a 2nd NRL team. I'm unsure whether Wellington's stadium can accomodate an NRL home season in it's already busy year, Christchurch is wrecked by earthquakes, Hamilton remains an outside chance (although rather close to Auckland geographically), and Dunedin - although it has the most modern (indoor!) stadium in NZ - is not our biggest Rugby league city by a long shot.

Adelaide remains just a dot on the map - for now.
Sure, right now there are other places that have a bigger RL culture who could sustain a team - in Qld, New Zealand and even Perth - but once the competition is balanced and well spread amongst RL heartland, Adelaide will be a good market to have "in reserve" for an expansion team. (especially if we're comparing us to ARL - who have all but exhausted the major expansion markets) More so if we take a few games per season there to get some sort of a following for the code established.

Yep, you are right. NZ is probably in the top 4 of expansion locations, but they will be a long way off. Adelaide is desirable eventually, but...

 

[Loudstrat]

not sure what you mean by "leg up"? I want to see a 16 team comp with Perth, Wellington, Brisbane2 and Gosford (if the Bears are to be believed) in it. I want to see weak clubs not be allowed to stunt the growth of the game and I want to see RL be available to be enjoyed in as many places as possible. If that's a "leg up" then ok that is what I want.

You bemoan seeing your "club" being cut to second division to show you have understanding - yet you campaign for other clubs to be punted? You have no idea. Nice catchphrase "weak clubs that stunt the growth of the game" - but in reality that is a bullsh*t phrase because Perth would be no stronger or sucessful than at least three of those Sydney clubs you want to punt.

I assume you mean Cronulla, Manly, Souths and Penrith. Instantly alienating at least a million fans - what a bright idea. That will "grow" the game - the AFL game.

Perth will not be as strong as any of them bar maybe Cronulla. And there are no guarantees that they will last more than 5 weeks like last time. SO there is no point hacking away at the games heartland just so you can pull yourself stupid over the Reds.

You will get your admission WHEN they NRL expands to 18 teams (likely), or when an existing side falls over (unlikely - although it is most likely to be the Titans).

Face it - you are just a lunatic with a paranoia complex about Sydney.

 

[bobmar28]

Perth Red, I'm not sure what your agenda is with this issue. Is it you want Sydney teams to fold so others such as Perth and Central Coast get a leg-up?

That's exactly what should happen in this era of billion dollar TV contracts. If a club in a city as big as Sydney can't put bums on seats they have no business being in the NRL.