Expansion voting.

[Zigwaa]

Wagga and Dubbo don't have a population of 300 thousand people.

CC would quickly home to their own side. They are a very close nit community like Newcastle. A side there would be an instant success like the Titans.

Adelaide has a population of 1.2 million and isn't represented in the whole state. CC people have an abundance of teams to support and games held in their stadium. They can support the NRL and not be greedy and want their own side.

Expansion means expanding the game. Why do it in a congested market? Why not expand to new areas and expand the game. Hence true expansion.

 

[Goddo]

Perth will be in no doubt.

If you think with your heart, you would pick Central Coast for the second spot.

But if you think with your head it has to be Ipswich.

 

[Goddo]

To expand on my earlier post, it seems to me the clubs which are squeezed in terms of their population base are Souths, Cronulla, and Manly. There really is only room for one of Souths or the Roosters in the inner city/eastern suburbs area. Cronulla are hemmed in by St. George and Illawarra. Manly could theoretically expand west and north, but I would hazard a guess that neither North Sydney or the Central Coast would want them, and they themselves probably wouldn't be interested in looking outside their own insular little hamlet. If the Bears get the gig though, Manly suddenly find themselves in the same basket as Cronulla.

These three clubs, and arguably the Roosters to, do not have the population base to sustain themselves. Souths have a massive fan base, but a very small part of it would actually exist in their geographical base, suggesting they wouldn't lose too much by moving (other than their own stupid pride). They could still claim the South Sydney junior base if they moved (hey, they could even be nice and give Randwick back to the Roosters ), in the same way that Melbourne did with the Central Coast and Brisbane Norths. Personally I think playing out of Homebush is a tacit admission that they cannot sustain themselves long term out of their traditional base, but I'm not holding my breath for the penny to drop for the stubborn pricks.

The Roosters are in a similar boat, except for the fact they have a lot of money. Souths do too, until such point as Rusty gets jack of it, or loses his movie star profile and can't afford to use them as his plaything anymore.

Cronulla are up sh*t creek without a paddle, there is no two ways about it. The sooner the NRL taps them on the shoulder, suggesting a move elsewhere, with a promise of long term support if they do, the better for everyone.

Manly are not quite in as big a pile of sh*t as Cronulla, but they will be once the Bears get in. I'd also be tapping them on the shoulder and offering long term support to move elsewhere.

The other team that should probably be mentioned is Penrith. They have a fairly small population base. What they need to do is take advanatage of their mega-rich leagues club and start staking claims to surrounding areas, which are growing rapidly. Blacktown is the obvious piece of unclaimed turf, but I'd also be looking South (plenty of development happening and planned in the corridor between Penrith and Campbelltown, which is currently largely unpopulated), and West into the Blue Mountains. Forget about being the team from the foot of the mountains. Lay claim to being the team for the mountains.

Because these clubs are in such a state in Sydney it is very unlikely that an Independent Commissionwith a mandate to protect the current clubs and their interests will do anything to harm these clubs, at least in the short term until the game is in a better financial position.

This is why the Central Coast Bears bid getting up in 2013 is so unlikely. The NRL may not expand at all in 2013 to consolidate.

It is also why places like Ipswich and Perth are so apealling - they won't eat into the existing Sydney clubs revenue in terms of sponsorship and membership, they will add new markets to the game to make additional revenue from advertising, tv rights and memberships.

The Bears only realistic hope of comming back is some sort of rationalisation in Sydney;

* either by the ARLC dangling a carrot to get a club to move or relocate
* or natural attrition seeing a club wiped out.

For the first case, the ARLC needs to determine their long term stratergy and get the finances in place for it to occur. 2013 is probably too soon for that.

In the second case, you are looking at Cronulla and hoping they fall over, but the Sharks now look like they will scrape through to 2013. Or Manly move to the Sunshine Coast before 2013, a very very long odds chance.

Which is why IF the NRL is expanded in 2013 (I think its now looking 50/50 that they will expand at all) it won't be the Bears they admit.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Perth will be in no doubt.

If you think with your heart, you would pick Central Coast for the second spot.

But if you think with your head it has to be Ipswich.

This is the big thing that some people seem to be purposefully ignoring. The ARL won't be making the expansion decision with their hearts. No professional sporting organisation does.

The AFL ignored their heartland bid in Tassie, which had community/fan support and corporate support behind it (exactly like the CC Bears) in favour of putting teams in two places that actively dislike AFL.
The Super14 put a team in Melbourne despite a superior bid from a South African team, purely because another Australian team would give them $10-20M (iirc) more from the Australian broadcasters.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Because these clubs are in such a state in Sydney it is very unlikely that an Independent Commissionwith a mandate to protect the current clubs and their interests will do anything to harm these clubs, at least in the short term until the game is in a better financial position.

This is why the Central Coast Bears bid getting up in 2013 is so unlikely. The NRL may not expand at all in 2013 to consolidate.

It is also why places like Ipswich and Perth are so apealling - they won't eat into the existing Sydney clubs revenue in terms of sponsorship and membership, they will add new markets to the game to make additional revenue from advertising, tv rights and memberships.

The Bears only realistic hope of comming back is some sort of rationalisation in Sydney;

* either by the ARLC dangling a carrot to get a club to move or relocate
* or natural attrition seeing a club wiped out.

For the first case, the ARLC needs to determine their long term stratergy and get the finances in place for it to occur. 2013 is probably too soon for that.

In the second case, you are looking at Cronulla and hoping they fall over, but the Sharks now look like they will scrape through to 2013. Or Manly move to the Sunshine Coast before 2013, a very very long odds chance.

Which is why IF the NRL is expanded in 2013 (I think its now looking 50/50 that they will expand at all) it won't be the Bears they admit.

Keep telling yourself that.

The Bears are building a great bid with a great business model. If we get in it will not be because of the halfcracked reasons you mentioned. It'll will be on the back of the financial support, community support and the business support that the CCBEARS have achieved.

We are in a unique position to have a deep pool of fans and players amongst sponsors and private backers. Memberships alone is a great indication of how popular a club is and without an actual team, our membership numbers are impressive.

This Sydney has too many teams non sense doesn't apply to the Bears.. much like it doesn't apply to Newcastle, Canberra or St.George Illawarra.

Judging by the votes here, the people have spoken.

BTW your signature has Ipswich-Logan Jets.. who the are they? Have I missed something? Because last time I checked, there was no definite name or area yet for the Jet's bid besides Ipswich (stand alone). I also see that the Jets bid is the only bid to have no local residents on board as part of the bid team. They have Ribot in the shadows and a former Rooster....

Back to the CCBears, sure there is more work to be done and we acknowledge that. But while we are working our backsides off in the community, a couple of other bids have yet to leave the boardroom or even drawing board. Time is of the essence and the NRL has the opportunity to get a bumper TV deal regardless of admitting W.A. and bid #2. Therefore with such a short time span, it's important to have established your identity by now. Once an identity is in place, then it's time to get sponsors and finally members.

For 2 months now some people on this board have gone on about how the Jets bid is great. For 2 months now the Jets bid has yet to leave the drawing plans with further delays expected. I seriously believe that I could talk the Dolphins into bidding for a license and have them more prepared then the Jets are within a month. But I'm a CCBears advocate and as such will continue pushing for their promotion into the NRL until we have achieved that goal.

Go the Bears!!

 

[Eels Dude]

Adelaide has a population of 1.2 million and isn't represented in the whole state. CC people have an abundance of teams to support and games held in their stadium. They can support the NRL and not be greedy and want their own side.

Expansion means expanding the game. Why do it in a congested market? Why not expand to new areas and expand the game. Hence true expansion.

Adelaide don't follow rugby league at all and don't produce juniors. Perth first then if they catch can look at Adelaide a few years on. Plonking two sides in untested markets at the same time is a poor business plan. CC is rugby league heartland and have a stack of juniors running around each week in the NRL.

 

[Goddo]

I know you are one eyed Red&Blackbear, but you can't keep ignoring the deficiencies in the Central Coast area compared to its two main rivals, Perth and Ipswich.

The NRL clubs don't want the Bears. It is unlikely the ARLC will either. Sorry, but you will probably have to wait longer than 2013.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

This is the big thing that some people seem to be purposefully ignoring. The ARL won't be making the expansion decision with their hearts. No professional sporting organisation does.

The AFL ignored their heartland bid in Tassie, which had community/fan support and corporate support behind it (exactly like the CC Bears) in favour of putting teams in two places that actively dislike AFL.
The Super14 put a team in Melbourne despite a superior bid from a South African team, purely because another Australian team would give them $10-20M (iirc) more from the Australian broadcasters.

Situations are unique and must be judged on their individual merits.

The CCBEARS bid goes beyond what the Tasmanian AFL or RSA/Melbourne Super Rugby bids had. Firstly the market is already there and instead of it being untapped, it has been more so pushed away due to the ARL/SL war. In saying that, that same market has come out swinging, chanting and crusading to re-establish a CC and Bears team.

The Tasmanian AFL was a bid which had proposed sponsors but nothing was set in stone. Unlike the CCBEARS sponsors, who have already pledged money into the bid and community. The fans wanted it but didn't go out and sign memberships like the CC have. Also the Tasmanian bid never had the long competition history like the Bears or the growth like the CC. The corporate sectors didn't have the confidence in Tasmania otherwise they would have invested instead of saying"we'll invest once we're in". The CCBEARS corporate sector has invested already and that's due to the confidence these people have in the bid. We are also talking about millions of dollars.

Melbourne Super Rugby bid has been in the works since the Western Force inception and were unlucky to miss out then. Since then of course they continued to work hard and within a few years had a franchise of their own. (Sounds similar to the GCTitans/CCBears/NRL expansion scenario actually). But again Melbourne were never in the same boat as the CC or Bears. They will struggle financially for awhile and a lot of the money they make for the ARU through TV revenue, will be pumped straight back into the club to prop them up. A'la Melbourne Storm. They will lack juniors, strong support and coverage for a long time and what might have seemed like a good choice due to potential TV revenue, will actually be an even break in the end. Possibly less then even.

Again, you can't compare the situations. The CCBEARS are in a very unique position with their bid.

 

[_MayMoo 2]

The Bears has a heart element but a lot more than that. The heart element brings the 1000's of disenfranchised Bears (and their offspring) supporters back to the code. It brings back the tradition of 100yr old club and it's colours. It brings back the North Shore of Sydney and the NS business district and that money (many have allready parted with thousands). Pretty impressive heart element.

They have been actively encouraged by Gallop (who will be the CEO of the new commison) over the last 2 years to build this bid, including members etc. I wont go into details of what has been acheived so far but many would be aware.

To compare this to a TAS AFL bid is nonsense.

The NRL have stated in the past that there will be a team on the Central Coast. They have since actively encouraged the Bears to go out into the CC community sign members etc etc.

Do you honestly think that they are thinking along the lines "Now we will just wait for Cronuula to fall over". Cronulla (nor will any other team) fall over. The increased grants to existing clubs will take care of that.

The encouragement has grown and grown from the NRL with each meeting the Bears have had with them (including a very recent one).

The other arguments re Manly, Newcastle also nonsense. They have been anti the Bears coming back for years - reason, it will be a very strong club. This is the sort of small minded decison making that will be a thing of the past when the commission comes into play.

And before you go on about Ipswich, Please tell me why the catchment the CC Bears will represent (which is huge) is any less important.
Why would they tick off over and over on all things asked, but miss out just because on a map they are on NSW. They wont miss out.
Bris vers. 2 will happen, but it will not happen next expansion, it will be Bears and Reds next.

I think the only thing holding the Bears back is the announcement of the independant commsion. Then when that is up and running, and the blinkers are off, we will be fine, as bringing the Bears back will be a good business decision as well.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

I know you are one eyed Red&Blackbear, but you can't keep ignoring the deficiencies in the Central Coast area compared to its two main rivals, Perth and Ipswich.

The NRL clubs don't want the Bears. It is unlikely the ARLC will either. Sorry, but you will probably have to wait longer than 2013.

One eyed? Mate I'd say I know more about every current bid (except for WAREDS) then most people on here. Ipswich isn't a threat to the CC. Much like CQ isn't a threat to W.A.

Only 2 NRL clubs don't want the Bears and they're on shaky ground due to their own managerial problems. But i could really care less about going around in circles with you and the other Ipswich troopers (who ironically don't live there and by the sounds of it never have been there).

I can walk into Jet's Leagues club or the CCBears HQ when I want and get my information from the source. I don't need to assume what others think. I know where the CCBears bid is currently at and I also know where the Jets bid is currently at. What you read in tabloids is far from the truth and if you want real information may I suggest you, dgsfan, bobmar and others actually contact the Jets and the Bears to hear for yourselves about their current situations or better yet travel to Ipswich and the CC and have a chat with the locals.

 

[BDGS]

I know you are one eyed Red&Blackbear, but you can't keep ignoring the deficiencies in the Central Coast area compared to its two main rivals, Perth and Ipswich.

The NRL clubs don't want the Bears. It is unlikely the ARLC will either. Sorry, but you will probably have to wait longer than 2013.

Don't believe everything you read, it makes you sound ignorant and naive.

 

[dgsfan]

Well I sure as hell won't be believing some hack on a RL forum, that's for sure.

 

[Jason Maher]

I think all of us agree that the Bronocos need some more competition in their own backyard, and that Ipswich is a good base for such a team (given the projected growth for the area over the next 20 years). We just don't agree with the typical Queensland little brother syndrome, dots on a map argument that lies behind the Ipswich non-bid and its boosters on this site. SEQ had the last expansion team, if you will recall, so I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the same area again so quickly. Give the Titans more time to settle, and the Ipswich bid time to become serious. Central Queensland just doesn't make sense at all. The population is far too dispersed, even worse than for the Cowboys. After Ipswich/Logan, the next obvious area in Queensland is the Sunshine Coast, which is also growing at a rate of knots.

 

[Jason Maher]

Well I sure as hell won't be believing some hack on a RL forum, that's for sure.

Good advice, hack.

 

[Zigwaa]

Adelaide don't follow rugby league at all and don't produce juniors. Perth first then if they catch can look at Adelaide a few years on. Plonking two sides in untested markets at the same time is a poor business plan. CC is rugby league heartland and have a stack of juniors running around each week in the NRL.

Over 10,000 people to the Dog V Storm game here in July suggests different mate.

There are juniors but not enough at the moment I agree. With an NRL side there will be interest in RL and therefore more juniors playing the game.

 

[BDGS]

Well I sure as hell won't be believing some hack on a RL forum, that's for sure.

And this is the reason why no one takes anything you say to be anywhere near the truth. In fact if you say something i expect the opposite to happen.

 

[BDGS]

I think all of us agree that the Bronocos need some more competition in their own backyard, and that Ipswich is a good base for such a team (given the projected growth for the area over the next 20 years). We just don't agree with the typical Queensland little brother syndrome, dots on a map argument that lies behind the Ipswich non-bid and its boosters on this site. SEQ had the last expansion team, if you will recall, so I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the same area again so quickly. Give the Titans more time to settle, and the Ipswich bid time to become serious. Central Queensland just doesn't make sense at all. The population is far too dispersed, even worse than for the Cowboys. After Ipswich/Logan, the next obvious area in Queensland is the Sunshine Coast, which is also growing at a rate of knots.

Very well said and 100% correct.

 

[Perth Red]

Adelaide needs to be a long term project for the ARLC. First step has to be to get the right people running the SARL. Then they need to help out with funding of development officers and the SARL competition. then they need to be working with the SARL to develop a plan for eventual expansion which includes joing a national 2nd tier or jnr competition, regular NRL games, improved marketing of the game, FTA coverage, stadium upgrade etc etc. In fact everything that has been happening in Perth for the last 5 years!

Adelaide can easily sustain an NRL team if time, resources and planning is put in.

 

[Goddo]

I think all of us agree that the Bronocos need some more competition in their own backyard, and that Ipswich is a good base for such a team (given the projected growth for the area over the next 20 years). We just don't agree with the typical Queensland little brother syndrome, dots on a map argument that lies behind the Ipswich non-bid and its boosters on this site. SEQ had the last expansion team, if you will recall, so I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the same area again so quickly. Give the Titans more time to settle, and the Ipswich bid time to become serious. Central Queensland just doesn't make sense at all. The population is far too dispersed, even worse than for the Cowboys. After Ipswich/Logan, the next obvious area in Queensland is the Sunshine Coast, which is also growing at a rate of knots.

I agree to an extent. I think if the NRL expands, it won't be in NSW, no matter how good the bid. It does nothing for TV dollars other than provide another game, something every other bid brings and more (eg Perth brings WA and a different time zone for broadcast).

I ain't a queenslander so I am not coming at this with an inferiority complex. I think that there are too many clubs in NSW currently to sustain the game long term. I wanted Cronulla to fold for that reason. There are not enough fans and sponsorship dollars to go around, let alone TV exposure for all. Until something is done to adress this imbalance expansion won't happen here.

That might mean the NRL doesn't expand at all (which I think is more likely, expansion comming in 2015 maybe). CC/North Sydney is a good location for a club, but it shouldn't happen unless some of the fat in Sydney is trimmed. A lot of RL fans feel this way.

It should be Ipswich and Perth or nothing in 2013, unless something happens in Sydney which should see the Bears in.

 

[Zigwaa]

Adelaide needs to be a long term project for the ARLC. First step has to be to get the right people running the SARL. Then they need to help out with funding of development officers and the SARL competition. then they need to be working with the SARL to develop a plan for eventual expansion which includes joing a national 2nd tier or jnr competition, regular NRL games, improved marketing of the game, FTA coverage, stadium upgrade etc etc. In fact everything that has been happening in Perth for the last 5 years!

Adelaide can easily sustain an NRL team if time, resources and planning is put in.

Thanks for the tips PR. We've made some steps down here recently in those areas.

We have a new SARL General Manager, Ken Kennedy who is got some great ideas and out some good things in place for the future. He's looking to address all those areas you mentioned with them aiming to put a side in the Jim Beam Cup or whatever it's called now.