F.O Andrew Webster

[Big Marn]

At least you acknowledge your pedantry. Lol

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I have no doubt that there is a grain of truth in this in that the Melbourne culture has got the most out of him. As a pedant though I do feel compelled to point out that Katoa wasn't a New Zealander in the first place (only moved to NZ at 17 and left at 20) and his entire NRL career has been based in Australia - so at no point in his NRL career was he actually at home in NZ or in a position to be enjoying home comforts.

I actually wasn't aware of that, I thought he'd gone through our schooling system his whole way through. I presume prior to that was Tonga? Yep, just checked. So yeah, what I said doesn't probably fairly represent it, although what I did hear was that he was very comfortable in that South Auckland bubble, and probably needed to go elsewhere to break the family/friends shackle and train hard. Plus, he was being coached by Brown so had to go.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Just listening to Levels podcast, they are talking about the RTS fullback situation

Horo saying that Webster was intimating that Roger’s communication at fullback is the main reason that CNK has been the preferred option there. He also said that RTS makes up for that deficiency with his physicality

 

[Meth]

Let's be clear- Webster has been terrible this year.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Huge brickbat for Webster tonight

Johnson has been garbage all year, Martin has played well in his absence, albeit with a couple of quieter weeks lately, and Shaun’s injury obviously stopped him training

His kicking game was awful, barely any hit the mark. No running game at all, and he just dumped off short ball after short ball for 80mins, very predictable even though they got a result when the Eels were short. Saw a limp in the 2nd half and his goal kicking showed no confidence in the leg. There is nothing in his 2024 form to not have him returning through NSW Cup to find timing and fitness, especially at Martin’s expense

Also thought Egan off the bench was a mistake, and he woikd have been better suited to all that early attacking ball than Lussick

 

[flippikat]

Huge brickbat for Webster tonight

Johnson has been garbage all year, Martin has played well in his absence, albeit with a couple of quieter weeks lately, and Shaun’s injury obviously stopped him training

His kicking game was awful, barely any hit the mark. No running game at all, and he just dumped off short ball after short ball for 80mins, very predictable even though they got a result when the Eels were short. Saw a limp in the 2nd half and his goal kicking showed no confidence in the leg. There is nothing in his 2024 form to not have him returning through NSW Cup to find timing and fitness, especially at Martin’s expense

Also thought Egan off the bench was a mistake, and he woikd have been better suited to all that early attacking ball than Lussick

I'm sorry, but as I said in the matchday thread, I think SJ needs moving on.

(Yeah, I actually said "Biden" him)

The message needs to be "Hey, we love you & respect all you've given, but we can't justify you being there anymore, the future is someone else's"

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I'm sorry, but as I said in the matchday thread, I think SJ needs moving on.

(Yeah, I actually said "Biden" him)

The message needs to be "Hey, we love you & respect all you've given, but we can't justify you being there anymore, the future is someone else's"

The fact that we are in round 22 and no announcement for next year has been made may suggest that has already occurred

 

[flippikat]

The fact that we are in round 22 and no announcement for next year has been made may suggest that has already occurred

I hope so. His constant "free pass" into the starting lineup has impaired other, younger, healthier & frankly (on current form) BETTER halves careers.

With SJ moved along we can coherently build for the next few years.

 

[Big Marn]

Is there a disconnect between the game plan and the players that are supposed to be executing the plan?
If this is the game plan ie. be ultraconservative, wait for the opposition errors and score off the back of that, then a full season is always going to regress to meh. Last year was an outlier.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I know press conferences probably don’t really matter…but if Webster comes out again and talks ‘errors’ that’ll do me. The problem is we are completely failing to capitalise on dominance because of an ultra-conservative attacking game plan and a complete lack of either creativity or well designed set plays on attack. If he doesn’t recognise that he’s deep in delusion.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

I know press conferences probably don’t really matter…but if Webster comes out again and talks ‘errors’ that’ll do me. The problem is we are completely failing to capitalise on dominance because of an ultra-conservative attacking game plan and a complete lack of either creativity or well designed set plays on attack. If he doesn’t recognise that he’s deep in delusion.

Literally the first words that came out of his mouth! To many errors!
Media called him out on it as excuse the last few weeks!
Webster looked visibly pissed off from the start.
He defended SJ return as decent and hard to judge under the errors! FmD
Thinks they can win the next 4. Haha

 

[Big Marn]

Literally the first words that came out of his mouth! To many errors!
Media called him out on it as excuse the last few weeks!
Webster looked visibly pissed off from the start.
He defended SJ return as decent and hard to judge under the errors! FmD
Thinks they can win the next 4. Haha

I think he needs some new offsiders. As much as Jones was a legendary player, from what ive seen over the years, he just has a job for life (like Dean Bell thought he did) and wouldnt make a coaches arsehole. Too harsh?
If he proves me wrong with the Kiwis im happy to eat humble pie, but tbh, i think those players could coach themselves.
And the other offsider (british coach whose name escapes me). He can go too.
I hope Webster isnt too "nice" for this job. Everything went swimmingly last year but i think he needs to start making tough decisions on form, not faith.
Talk about hero to zero.

sidenote. In the NFL they have what is called manufactured touches or designed plays for their explosive players which can lead to points in a hurry. How many times did Leka touch the ball last night on attack? Since that big run against the Dogs, i havent seen anything resembling an opportunity for him to showcase his talent.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I think he needs some new offsiders.

I thought this, too. I don't know Richard Agar, apparently he's pretty well credentialled from the UK. But God love Stacey, I just don't see that he is a strong enough assistant - he's never going to be an NRL head coach, and the Kiwis job feels like a long-service present.

At the very least, Webster needs experienced mentors, even if he doesn't have the greatest of assistants. I would think McFadden would be a good sounding board, he is a guy of quality who has seen a lot and I think knows a bit about the game.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Agree with everyone here. SJ looked rusty as hell. He did seem to click in the final quarter but that just reinforced that he needed a game in NSW Cup to work out the ring rust.
Our rookie centres got found out a bit on defence, and Egan didn’t seem to provide the desired punch off the bench.

 

[JJ]

Really hard to know, despite all the build up, the squad to me still looked a middle of the table group, lot of luck last year, little this year, notably with injuries...

Stream of consciousness, I think Webster is probably ok, although the game plan looks limited - he and Ciraldo (and Brennan before them) have found the move to head coach challenging with ups and downs, Fitzgibbon getting more consistent results...

All I'd say is that it makes the truly great coaches (Bennett, Hasler, Bellamy, Gould, Ryan, and Sheens (at least until the end, focusing more on the Penrith, Canberra, early Tigpies) (maybe Robinson??) remarkable - even with limited resources sometimes - Hasler and Bennett atm, Sheens at Penrith and the Tigpies premiership imo, they find a way to compete maximising the talent they have, Gould, Sheens and Bellamy all show how to build talent, build a culture, and win consistently (admittedly with some dodginess at Melbourne and Canberra), and how old man Bennett still gets things done is amazing, Sheens has shown how the game can move on from you...

The Kiwis passing on Bennett, and the Warriors potentially stuffing up on Bellamy, and losing Gould's oversight are IMO catastrophic losses

 

[JJ]

A little related, how long can Kevin Walters keep his job, yeah they made a GF, but that aside his tenure has been a cluster f**k

 

[Alan Johnson]

I think the fundamental problem the Warriors have is cultural. Not the team culture, but the wider culture the club exists within. I’m talking about the differences in the respective cultures of the rugby league heartlands in Australia and New Zealand. More specifically, the differences that exist between the working classes of the respective countries (and various cultural traits more broadly). The Australian working class has a confidence, cockiness and optimism that doesn’t exist to the same extent in the NZ working class, particularly in the Warriors’ home of South Auckland where economic hardship abounds and where it would be reasonable to assume there is much disenfranchisement. In my view these differences are reflected on the field across the Warriors’ now quite long and perenially frustrating history. This is not meant as a criticism or to denigrate a section of the community, but to try to make sense of the patterns we see in the Warriors year after year.

 

[Matua]

I think the fundamental problem the Warriors have is cultural. Not the team culture, but the wider culture the club exists within. I’m talking about the differences in the respective cultures of the rugby league heartlands in Australia and New Zealand. More specifically, the differences that exist between the working classes of the respective countries (and various cultural traits more broadly). The Australian working class has a confidence, cockiness and optimism that doesn’t exist to the same extent in the NZ working class, particularly in the Warriors’ home of South Auckland where economic hardship abounds and where it would be reasonable to assume there is much disenfranchisement. In my view these differences are reflected on the field across the Warriors’ now quite long and perenially frustrating history. This is not meant as a criticism or to denigrate a section of the community, but to try to make sense of the patterns we see in the Warriors year after year.

TBH I think this is bollocks. For these reasons:
1. The Warriors best years tend to be when they have a lot of homegrown players. Especially poor years have often included a lot of Australians.
2. The demographics in rugby and league at the top end in NZ are mostly the same yet the results are largely different.
3. The Warriors issues more often than not stem from the front office. This latest hype era is likely in spite of, not because of the front office.
4. The Warriors are a team based in South Auckland but they're not a team comprised of South Aucklanders, and again even if true see point 2.

Is there a culture of losing at the Warriors? Yes. Does socio-economics have anything to do with that? Nope. It's just a club historically run poorly.

 

[Alan Johnson]

The player demographics in rugby and league are similar-ish but the sports have markedly different cultural/class backgrounds. Look at the first 15 competition for example.

 

[Alan Johnson]

TBH I think this is bollocks. For these reasons:
Is there a culture of losing at the Warriors? Yes. Does socio-economics have anything to do with that? Nope. It's just a club historically run poorly.

I don’t think you can discount socio-economics that flippantly. It’s the most significant determiner of future success.