Farah vs Ennis

[Pedro Collins]

Farah is the more creative, has a good left boot which the team needs to create uncertainty and those who said he can't defend well in the press are jokers.

Farah has to be the bloke picked for Game 1, Ennis has had quite a good start to the year but I don't believe he is in the same class.

 

[TimmyB]

I suggest you all check out the kicking stats from this game. I have not seen them myself but I am sure of what it will say.

They say that Ennis' kicked for more metres from less kicks. I would agree his long kicking game was better than Farah's. Want to see the rest of the stats?

Farah more try assists
Farah more line break assists
Farah nearly triple the metres made (admittedly off a lot more runs)
Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses
Farah more tackle breaks, offloads, repeat sets of six won (well there's no statistic on NRL but he did).
Farah more kicks in play
Ennis less penalties conceded (by 1), less errors (by 1), less ineffective tackles, more one on one tackles (by 1).


These statistics are pretty well borne out throughout the season.
Farah easily matches Ennis for touches of class and has double the work rate.

 

[stormbati]

The play close to the line that Ennis pulls off is pretty effective, where he takes a couple steps to the side and fires a quick face ball to the second man usually a prop. Did it with Hannant the other week they use to do it at Brisbane too.
Farah by far, I dont think Bellamy likes Ennis one bit!

 

[stormbati]

They say that Ennis' kicked for more metres from less kicks. I would agree his long kicking game was better than Farah's. Want to see the rest of the stats?

Farah more try assists
Farah more line break assists
Farah nearly triple the metres made (admittedly off a lot more runs)
Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses
Farah more tackle breaks, offloads, repeat sets of six won (well there's no statistic on NRL but he did).
Farah more kicks in play
Ennis less penalties conceded (by 1), less errors (by 1), less ineffective tackles, more one on one tackles (by 1).


These statistics are pretty well borne out throughout the season.
Farah easily matches Ennis for touches of class and has double the work rate.

Thats funny the Telegraph today shows Ennis better stats wise

 

[TimmyB]

Care to post a link mate? I'm going by the stats on the NRL website.

 

[sando88]

"Farah set up a try for centre Tim Moltzen, so Ennis whacked Tigers prop Keith Galloway hard enough to dislodge the Steeden. Farah held Ennis up over the line, then threw the last pass for a Todd Payten try . . . so Ennis whacked the ball from his hands near the tryline and then grubbered for winger Bryson Goodwin to score."

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,25422119-5006066,00.html


HAHAHAHHAHA what a joke of a paragraph... ennis didnt wack galloway. he raked it out and was lucky not to condede a penalty, and he wacked the ball from farah's arms only to gift tigers 6 more tackles

 

[Parramatta_Power]

Honestly, that last ditch attempt by the Tigers was really classy and a sign of a Well-Coached side. Farah had that great(and kind of lucky) Kick-Bounce at the end to get that last try. Sign of a skilled player with luck on his side.

 

[Rudderriffic]

They say that Ennis' kicked for more metres from less kicks. I would agree his long kicking game was better than Farah's. Want to see the rest of the stats?

Farah more try assists
Farah more line break assists
Farah nearly triple the metres made (admittedly off a lot more runs)
Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses
Farah more tackle breaks, offloads, repeat sets of six won (well there's no statistic on NRL but he did).
Farah more kicks in play
Ennis less penalties conceded (by 1), less errors (by 1), less ineffective tackles, more one on one tackles (by 1).


These statistics are pretty well borne out throughout the season.
Farah easily matches Ennis for touches of class and has double the work rate.

Using statistics devoid of context is completely useless.

You would be correct in saying that Farah (33.9 tackles per game) has more tackles than Ennis (24.9 tackles per game). However, Ennis has three players with high defensive loads at his club to compete with, in Stagg (47.5 tackles per game), Hannant (34.3 tk/g) and Ryan (30.3 tk/g). Farah's closest team mate is Ellis (26.7 tk/g). The Tigers are the worst team in regards to defence (by points allowed). The Bulldogs are in the top five (fifth ). At the Tigers, Farah must complete more tackles because his team mates either won't or can't.

Perhaps an even larger flaw in this method of statistical comparison, is the lack of consideration for which defender makes first contact in a tackle on a more consistent basis. If a defender makes first contact it would be reasonable to assume that he is more likely to have either a miss tackle, or ineffective tackle recorded against him as opposed to a defender who makes contact after the ball runners initial momentum has been broken by another defender. There are no statistics publicly available that show whether the defender is first, second, or third in (NRL teams do keep this stat though). That aside, there is a one-on-one tackle stat. Farah will make a one-on-one tackle every 28 tackles. Ennis will make one every 14.4 tackles. That means Ennis will tackle a bloke, on his own, roughly twice as much as Farah. Combine this with the fact that as mentioned above, Ennis plays with some very active tacklers, and Farah does not, it makes it somewhat off an oddity of stat and suggests that Farah does not often make first contact as compared to the amount of tackles he makes and that Ennis does. The amount of one-on-one tackles he makes, and the assumed amount of first contact, does go a ways to explaining Ennis' inflated miss tackle rate, one every 6.7 tackles. Inversely, it could also explain Farah relatively low miss tackle rate, one every 15.6.

Simply saying: "Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses", does not really paint the full picture. The above does not even really go into the detail that it could (i.e. considering the relative attacking ability of opposing teams they faced, or statistics relative to other hookers, etc) but was written to show that if numbers used out of context prove very little.

As far as providing more repeat sets, is this merely an observation or are there stats available to the public on this? And how would you measure it? Does the kicker get the stat, or the tackler? I mean if a long kick (i.e. a kick for field position, not a kick within the 20 that is looking for a repeat) goes down to the five, the fullback goes to return it, makes it to the eight and gets forced back in goal by the chasing team does this count for the kicker or the chasers or both?

EDIT: Should actually note that there are inconsistencies between the stats on the nrl.com website, and the company sportsdata (who provide stats to the NRL) who have nrlstats.com as it has not been updated to included the latest round yet (I beleive they wait until all stats are verified on replay, until then all match stats are subject to change). All calculations are based on nrlstats.com, except for the 1-on-1 tackles, nrlstats.com do no offer the cummlative of this stat over the course of a season in their detailed stats. Numbers for that will be slightly off, but should not change the ultimate outcome of my point about first contact. Will update it when stats are available.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

The reason for the media push for Ennis to play SOO was revealed last week. Dean Ritchie wrote an article in the Telecrap regarding Ennis and Farah. He said something along the lines of:

"...they couldn't be more different. Farah is quiet, unassuming and confident in himself, and doesn't always answer questions. Ennis has gotten into the habit of addressing reporters by their nicknames and loves talking to them..."

He is chummy with all the hacks in the press, that's the reason why they are pushing hard for his inclusion. Look, he isn't a bad player at all, hes been playing well this year, but Farah is a much better player. Ennis hides in defence, he gets hidden by the Bulldogs props converging in front of him. He is often 3rd man in which bumps his already low defensive stats to mediocre. Farah is targeted all game to try and reduce his effectiveness in attack but he still does more each game than Ennis. A player who is supposedly "made for Origin" does not get hidden in the defensive line.

Bulldogs ran their big boys at Farah all day yesterday and he tackled every single one of them, without a single miss. Anyone who thinks he cant defend is geniused. This myth that because he is a flashy player that means he is not tough -- its utter rubbish. Farah is a better defender than Ennis and he has much more in attack.

But the NSW selectors are dinosaurs so they'll pick Ennis I bet. He misses more tackles, scores less, assists less tries, makes less metres than Farah. Bellamy seems to want Farah though, so we'll see how much pull he has.

It would be a crime if Farah was overlooked again when he should have been picked two years ago

 

[The Gambler]

Farah is a class above Ennis.

 

[TimmyB]

Using statistics devoid of context is completely useless.

You would be correct in saying that Farah (33.9 tackles per game) has more tackles than Ennis (24.9 tackles per game). However, Ennis has three players with high defensive loads at his club to compete with, in Stagg (47.5 tackles per game), Hannant (34.3 tk/g) and Ryan (30.3 tk/g). Farah's closest team mate is Ellis (26.7 tk/g). The Tigers are the worst team in regards to defence (by points allowed). The Bulldogs are in the top five (fifth ). At the Tigers, Farah must complete more tackles because his team mates either won't or can't.

Yes, but undeniably Farah is making more tackles. Farah is using up more juice in defence than Farah. For Farah to take on the load he did in defence yesterday and still outshine Ennis says a lot.

I'd like to see the defensive workloads for the rest of the teams. You do understand that you can't say Farah has noone helping him in defence and then state he never makes one on one tackles. They're incongruous.

Perhaps an even larger flaw in this method of statistical comparison, is the lack of consideration for which defender makes first contact in a tackle on a more consistent basis. If a defender makes first contact it would be reasonable to assume that he is more likely to have either a miss tackle, or ineffective tackle recorded against him as opposed to a defender who makes contact after the ball runners initial momentum has been broken by another defender. There are no statistics publicly available that show whether the defender is first, second, or third in (NRL teams do keep this stat though).

Agreed.

That aside, there is a one-on-one tackle stat. Farah will make a one-on-one tackle every 28 tackles. Ennis will make one every 14.4 tackles. That means Ennis will tackle a bloke, on his own, roughly twice as much as Farah. Combine this with the fact that as mentioned above, Ennis plays with some very active tacklers, and Farah does not, it makes it somewhat off an oddity of stat and suggests that Farah does not often make first contact as compared to the amount of tackles he makes and that Ennis does. The amount of one-on-one tackles he makes, and the assumed amount of first contact, does go a ways to explaining Ennis' inflated miss tackle rate, one every 6.7 tackles. Inversely, it could also explain Farah relatively low miss tackle rate, one every 15.6.

I know you were just proving a point, but I'll answer. Farah averages 1.8 misses for every 1 on 1 tackle, Ennis averages 2.1 misses for every 1 on 1 tackles. So even if Ennis is making first contact more often in proportion with the higher number 1 on 1 tackles, he misses more often than this first contact is able to accuont for. Plus, Farah still has all the extra tackles where he does not make first contact.

Simply saying: "Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses", does not really paint the full picture. The above does not even really go into the detail that it could (i.e. considering the relative attacking ability of opposing teams they faced, or statistics relative to other hookers, etc) but was written to show that if numbers used out of context prove very little.

The fact remains that Farah uses up a sh*tload of juice in defence every week and Ennis does not.

As far as providing more repeat sets, is this merely an observation or are there stats available to the public on this? And how would you measure it? Does the kicker get the stat, or the tackler? I mean if a long kick (i.e. a kick for field position, not a kick within the 20 that is looking for a repeat) goes down to the five, the fullback goes to return it, makes it to the eight and gets forced back in goal by the chasing team does this count for the kicker or the chasers or both?

Merely observing on yesterdays match. I think it's hard to argue Ennis' short kicking game is superior to Farah's.

EDIT: Should actually note that there are inconsistencies between the stats on the nrl.com website, and the company sportsdata (who provide stats to the NRL) who have nrlstats.com as it has not been updated to included the latest round yet (I beleive they wait until all stats are verified on replay, until then all match stats are subject to change). All calculations are based on nrlstats.com, except for the 1-on-1 tackles, nrlstats.com do no offer the cummlative of this stat over the course of a season in their detailed stats. Numbers for that will be slightly off, but should not change the ultimate outcome of my point about first contact. Will update it when stats are available.

Having worked for NRL stats I am well aware of this.

 

[Dogaholic]

The reason for the media push for Ennis to play SOO was revealed last week. Dean Ritchie wrote an article in the Telecrap regarding Ennis and Farah. He said something along the lines of:

"...they couldn't be more different. Farah is quiet, unassuming and confident in himself, and doesn't always answer questions. Ennis has gotten into the habit of addressing reporters by their nicknames and loves talking to them..."

He is chummy with all the hacks in the press, that's the reason why they are pushing hard for his inclusion. Look, he isn't a bad player at all, hes been playing well this year, but Farah is a much better player. Ennis hides in defence, he gets hidden by the Bulldogs props converging in front of him. He is often 3rd man in which bumps his already low defensive stats to mediocre. Farah is targeted all game to try and reduce his effectiveness in attack but he still does more each game than Ennis. A player who is supposedly "made for Origin" does not get hidden in the defensive line.

Bulldogs ran their big boys at Farah all day yesterday and he tackled every single one of them, without a single miss. Anyone who thinks he cant defend is geniused. This myth that because he is a flashy player that means he is not tough -- its utter rubbish. Farah is a better defender than Ennis and he has much more in attack.

But the NSW selectors are dinosaurs so they'll pick Ennis I bet. He misses more tackles, scores less, assists less tries, makes less metres than Farah. Bellamy seems to want Farah though, so we'll see how much pull he has.

It would be a crime if Farah was overlooked again when he should have been picked two years ago

As opposed to having a column in a News Ltd paper???

As for 3rd man in...

Using statistics devoid of context is completely useless.

You would be correct in saying that Farah (33.9 tackles per game) has more tackles than Ennis (24.9 tackles per game). However, Ennis has three players with high defensive loads at his club to compete with, in Stagg (47.5 tackles per game), Hannant (34.3 tk/g) and Ryan (30.3 tk/g). Farah's closest team mate is Ellis (26.7 tk/g). The Tigers are the worst team in regards to defence (by points allowed). The Bulldogs are in the top five (fifth ). At the Tigers, Farah must complete more tackles because his team mates either won't or can't.

Perhaps an even larger flaw in this method of statistical comparison, is the lack of consideration for which defender makes first contact in a tackle on a more consistent basis. If a defender makes first contact it would be reasonable to assume that he is more likely to have either a miss tackle, or ineffective tackle recorded against him as opposed to a defender who makes contact after the ball runners initial momentum has been broken by another defender. There are no statistics publicly available that show whether the defender is first, second, or third in (NRL teams do keep this stat though). That aside, there is a one-on-one tackle stat. Farah will make a one-on-one tackle every 28 tackles. Ennis will make one every 14.4 tackles. That means Ennis will tackle a bloke, on his own, roughly twice as much as Farah. Combine this with the fact that as mentioned above, Ennis plays with some very active tacklers, and Farah does not, it makes it somewhat off an oddity of stat and suggests that Farah does not often make first contact as compared to the amount of tackles he makes and that Ennis does. The amount of one-on-one tackles he makes, and the assumed amount of first contact, does go a ways to explaining Ennis' inflated miss tackle rate, one every 6.7 tackles. Inversely, it could also explain Farah relatively low miss tackle rate, one every 15.6.

Simply saying: "Farah nearly double the tackles, one third of the misses", does not really paint the full picture. The above does not even really go into the detail that it could (i.e. considering the relative attacking ability of opposing teams they faced, or statistics relative to other hookers, etc) but was written to show that if numbers used out of context prove very little.

As far as providing more repeat sets, is this merely an observation or are there stats available to the public on this? And how would you measure it? Does the kicker get the stat, or the tackler? I mean if a long kick (i.e. a kick for field position, not a kick within the 20 that is looking for a repeat) goes down to the five, the fullback goes to return it, makes it to the eight and gets forced back in goal by the chasing team does this count for the kicker or the chasers or both?

EDIT: Should actually note that there are inconsistencies between the stats on the nrl.com website, and the company sportsdata (who provide stats to the NRL) who have nrlstats.com as it has not been updated to included the latest round yet (I beleive they wait until all stats are verified on replay, until then all match stats are subject to change). All calculations are based on nrlstats.com, except for the 1-on-1 tackles, nrlstats.com do no offer the cummlative of this stat over the course of a season in their detailed stats. Numbers for that will be slightly off, but should not change the ultimate outcome of my point about first contact. Will update it when stats are available.

Ennis > Farah

 

[Dogaholic]

PS. Farah isn't a bad player though

 

[TimmyB]

Farah > Ennis.

Based on this poll, it appears popular opinion would agree.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

As opposed to having a column in a News Ltd paper???

Doesn't seem to help his cause, as all the reporters are obsessed with licking Ennis' arse.

The point remains, Farah is targeted all game to try and reduce his effectiveness in attack, yet is never hidden in the defensive line like Ennis is.

 

[TimmyB]

But Ennis can kick goals.

 

[Dogaholic]

Farah > Ennis.

Based on this poll, it appears popular opinion would agree.

Ennis is hated due to the fact he plays for the Dogs (most hated team in RL) and the grubby tactics he was using last year which he hasn't used once this year.

Popular opinion doesn't always mean best.

 

[Meth]

I thought Ennis outplayed Farah yesterday...

There's probably room for both of them with Gidley likely to start

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

Ennis is hated due to the fact he plays for the Dogs (most hated team in RL) and the grubby tactics he was using last year which he hasn't used once this year.

Popular opinion doesn't always mean best.

Ennis has been despised by opposition players (+ some teammates) since he first started with Newcastle. He's the modern day Benny Elias.

I don't think he attracts any more or less hatred simply by playing for the Dogs now.

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

I don't think you could split the hookers on their performances yesterday. We'll have to wait until the City v Country match.