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Forum 7s Future

griffo346

First Grade
Messages
7,932
Guys,

This is a serious thread and if i get flamed so be it but i have started this for the future of our game.

We all like competing in this game but there is a serious side to it.

we have lost 2 teams this season already and anther looks like its also on its way out that being the team i'm currently with.

we need to come up with options to get new players into the game and i believe we have to do away with just writing about rugby league.

Options we should look at is maybe adding other sports so we can write about anything we want.

i don't think its about the rugby league writing and to be honest i am struggling to come up with a topic every week regardless of the big issues in the game we always write about the same thing just with different slants on the topic.

I also think we should cut squad limits back too so we get a even distribution of players around the game.

please can i get your thoughts on this.
 

Titanic

First Grade
Messages
5,915
griffo, I understand your position. From my perspective I'm also worried about the future of the competition. We haven't missed a posting in three years and playing against teams week in week out that can't produce 5 articles is very demotivating.

However, the Titans are in it to write about rugby league and if it wasn't that then we certainly wouldn't be playing.
 

byrne_rovelli_fan82

First Grade
Messages
7,477
I'm going to have to disagree Titanic,

Griffo has a point however, and I'm not agreeing with him solely because he's my team mate.
And it's not because I don't love talking about rugby league, it's just sometimes I'd love to write about something else for a change. I don't think we should write about league at all we can, those who want to carry on, but everyone now and again we should be able to write about something a little different.

Forum7s shouldn't just be rugby league it should open up to other sports too

The number of players also seriously concerns me, because frankly for me especially it's dishearting the work some of us put it while others can't and meanwhile other teams flourish I personally don't think it's fair and it's frustrating and me personally this week has been a very hard one. I know it comes down to individuals collectively but the distribution of players in this game isn't ideal.

I think (and it's not the best suggestion but I'm trying to find out a way) players need to be assigned to sides, there needs to be a limit and we can have a plan of you can only move sides if the other team gets someone else in return others the numbers just don't add up.

I feel especially strongly about being able to write about other stuff, not because rugby league isn't interesting but because I just haven't felt there is enough in this game to write about now without bringing out the same old stuff (and we have polices here don't we about not writing about something that's already been written).

My words worth
 
Messages
17,427
Do you all mind if I chime in?
I know the last two matches we haven't put all five in. It hurts me, it really does. I am unsure about the future of the Roosters. To be perfectly honest, it doesn't look good. In saying that, in no way am I giving up on this competition. I have posted in every game possible, and would plan to do so if I was representing a different club.
The option of writing outside Rugby League, sorry but I don't get it. It won't attract people and it will make these games rediculously hard to mark. I know it'd be a different change.
Quite a few of the Roosters have shown frustration. People like adamkungl, I can't thank him enough for the work he has put into the team. His future, I don't know.
 
Messages
17,427
One more thing.

Do I worry about the future of my team? Yes.
Do I worry about the future of the comp? No.

We've seen the amount of newcomers that have graced the competition. We can do it again.

If we have six teams in the comp, you could almost guarantee every match would be 5v5.
 

griffo346

First Grade
Messages
7,932
NT

thanks for your reply

mate the comp has seen 12 teams come and go over the start of the comp and i think that is a few too many mate we need to hold some teams i think by dropping the squad numbers is a start if we dont change the topic side
 
Messages
17,427
So far it does seem to be the minority that want this. But again Griffo, I'm not attempting to demean you with this, but the referees will find it difficult not only marking ten articles with a whole array of different sports, since there is a major possibility that the referee has never seen/doesn't enjoy the sport that is being written on.

Like, if I was to read one from brf82 about hockey, I'd have no clue.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
I think you couldnt have much less than 5. Having 5 ensures a consistent effort across the board from the side is needed to win, you get down to something like 3 and it too much comes down to one freak piece of writing and a couple of poor articles, leaves it too open to undeserved victories IMO anyway.

An expansion of topic base wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
I do share your concerns Griffo. Last night I was actually thinking about some of the suggestions I'd make for the comp's future at the end of the season.

We have seven teams at the moment, and only 3 have been able to get all their posts in. I know the other sides (including mine) are trying all they can, but when teams aren't getting their posts in, the matches aren't really fun for either side.

I'm not a fan of changing F7s to include different sports. The idea I had last night (may or may not be a good one when it's thought through) if to have four teams next year, with really healthy squad lists (ie up to the full 15. That could allow 7 posts per squad per round so that people could still get regular games.

A radical change? Perhaps. Needing further thought? Definitely. But it would mean that we don't spread the willing talent too thin amongst the existing number of squads, which is what seems imo to be the case now and in recent years.

Only give invites to the three teams that manage to make all their posts for the season, and have one combined new team combining whoever's left and willing to go around again. Have a proper draft system for new players to join each of these four teams, instead of leaving it up to captains recruiting.

Just a few random ideas from a rainy night....
 

Titanic

First Grade
Messages
5,915
I am all for change and innovation to this competition and welcome the debate but reiterate that the Titans were formed to participate in a league competition on a league website. If we wanted to play another type of game then we would have searched for it.

Novel ideas are tough to come by and new slants are an increasingly difficult challenge. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the players who put in, time and time again. Frankly, how Willow has found 101 topics is a measure of the bloke's single minded commitment.

How 'Unit plays in sunglasses is a constant sauce (sic) of amazement, how NT finds time to sift through tonnes of records is miraculous, how the refs put up with the pressure, how tits&tans finds time to write while juggling a senior management job in a foreign land, how Bart can always find the middle ground, how amadean can squeeze even 5 minutes each round between his masters study regime at ANU and never miss, how Juicy can leave the game at all (I know you're reading this)... we all have our commitments, I more than most, but we are all Forumers who understand that to let the team down is not an option.

Sadly it is not the individuals who enter this type of debate who need to re-visit their participation. I doubt there is any way short of "banking" articles to ensure that players are going to "turn up" on any given deadline but that's a part of the fun... isn't it?
 
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madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Ok, I'd like to speak, as someone who has captained a team that struggled to get 3 articles in every week, and as someone who hasn't missed a club game for 3 seasons.

Each year teams come and go, and a lot of the players go to the new teams, or existing ones. Each year someone's team struggles. For a long time I chanted the same call as that in the OP.

But now I believe that if your team is struggling to get articles in, then just maybe your players aren't as interested in the concept as they say, or the captain hasn't been approaching the right players.

Speaking from experience, I did nothing but sook and complain that the Sharks in 2005 had f**k all players, not once did I stop to think that maybe I should've tried harder to recruit players.

F7's teams, just like all other teams, can only be as good as their leader allows them to be. If the leader posts every week but does bugger all recruiting, then it's to be expected that the team will be a one man band, which will never end good.

Also, some captains are a little bit too proud to merge with another struggling team.

Furthermore, in regards to the comments about articles all starting to sound the same, I take great offence at that. I and many others work hard to bring new and original concepts every game. The fact that our scores have improved across the board since the games inception is proof that if anything, things aren't getting stale.

Willow has written over 100 articles now. If he was getting stale and writing the same thing over and over, how do you explain the high scores he regularly gets. You'd think after a while the refs would be bored and mark him down if it were the case.

But it's not.

I've always got several ideas on the go all the time, I never struggle to come up with articles, and I'm sure that there are people out there who would agree that I am not someone who sticks with a routine, or has a set style. That alone is proof in itself that articles aren't all becoming the same.

I think the F7's game is bloody magnificent, and each years it improves. Sure we have all have our fair share of misery and ecstacy, but what game doesn't.

A lot of the Titans players have rarely missed games and they are still dominant.
Jesbass still scores highly, as does Azkatro and Willow, and they've played more games than anyone else.

I'm sorry griffo, but I just think that there are too many arguments against your sentiments, and you sound like nothing more than sour grapes (not having a go at you, feel free to go back through the threads and you'll see a thread by me back in 2005 which is practically identical to this, and my teams situation was the same as yours.)

The Panthers and Titans prove you don't need a huge squad to be successful, just need a great leader and very passionate writers.

If your team has been struggling, I suggest that maybe you consider merging, or spending a few hours looking at certain posts by some non-F7-playing members and try and find that diamond in the rough.

All you can do is try and not give up. The Sharks failed because by seasons end, I gave up.

The game will always survive.

Also, I don't think there's any need to change the concept so that we can write about any sport whatsoever.

Thats like saying Sportsmen can go onto the field and play whatever sport they want. It'd be a pain in the arse to referee and it would go against the very nature of a rugby league forum.

There are plenty of players out there now who have played near or more than 50 games. They prove that there's still plenty to write about.

Read some books, old newspapers, do some research, watch some videos on youtube etc, they will all provide you with some inspiration.

I'm passionate about this game and don't think it needs any further tweaking of major proportions. teams come and go, as do players, but the game always remain.

One team will always come last, and someone in that team will always get pissed off and start one of these threads and crying victim, it's a cycle.
 

dubopov

Coach
Messages
14,737
I love to write about League, so do my team. We are passionate about the game and most particularly the MIGHTY DRAGONS. Most of our team are rookies or second year players - I have never met any of them .. If I can PM Dragon supporters and get a talented squad together, I'm sure most teams could do the same. We even have the added difficulty that most of the Newtown squad are also Dragons supporters.
 
Messages
17,427
F7's teams, just like all other teams, can only be as good as their leader allows them to be. If the leader posts every week but does bugger all recruiting, then it's to be expected that the team will be a one man band, which will never end good.

Our problem is a lack of communication, which I should be most responsible for imo.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Communication is key, almost more than anything else.

Just to reiterate though, I'm talking purely from my own experience and mistakes, as well as from what I see every season.

Not having a go at anyone.
 

Bubbles

Juniors
Messages
416
I would like to weigh in here with a few thoughts about all of this. I am aware that this is a bit hypocritcal of me, considering I can put my hand up someone who has let down my team in the past, as well as totally mis-handling my return to the Roosters and consequently shafting my former team, the Eels, for which I feel quite a bit of shame over.

However, it says something about this competition that I have returned this year with just as much passion as I had when I first started in 2004. This is a wonderful concept and a great avenue for some truly talented writers. I don't think that the structure or concept is the problem and I really believe it shouldn't be tampered with. There are, however, a few things that may be able to be done to help the people who are struggling, either with flagging interest, ideas and actual writing skills.

For one,the teams who struggle to get their articles in each week and I'm in such a team, I don't believe they are using the Locker Room, or Clubhouse set up to it's full advantage. Surely it would help to use this as an avenue to bounce around ideas, post unfinished articles into, to get some assistance from team-mates. At the moment, certainly within the Roosters team, players are left to their own devices and apart from saying you can play in a game, there is absolutely no personal accountability beyond that. Perhaps Captains of struggling sides could implement a cut-off point, say the Sunday evening before the closing date, for their players to have either posted their articles into the game thread, or to post what they've got into the Club House/Locker Room. Firstly, this would give the captains an accurate idea of where everyone's up to, who needs a bit of a hand, either with simple encouragement and feedback, or help with formulating their concept, or even just some help with editing grammatical and spelling errors. This immediately ensures a more team-oriented environment, rather than having five individuals floundering around on their own.

Also, I think some sort of mentoring program could be helpful. There are certain players whose very longevity in this competition as well as their very obvious writing talents could help new comers and people who are struggling. I don't want to create more work for anyone, but I think that during the times when I was really finding it difficult to conjure up the enthusiasm etc., a PM from say, Willow, asking how I was going, giving some encouragement, may have helped pull me out of my funk and get the juices flowing again. Perhaps if there were a few such players willing, one could be assigned to each of the teams struggling to put in and captains could alert their mentor when there was an obvious struggler in their team.

As for recruitment, I was recruited by Henriete back in 2004 because she read some of my posts on the Roosters forum and liked the way I wrote and it went from there. I don't know if this will work too much, but I can tell you, it was pretty flattering to be singled out like that and it definitely encouraged me to check it all out and give it a go.

Sorry to ramble on and I do feel a bit of a hypocrite, but there's got to be other things to investigate before going down the path of making drastic changes to the competition. The very fact that it is League based brings out innovation and creativity that blows me away; e.g. Titanics article about the Storm saga I thought was truly brilliant and perhaps, given free reign to write about anything, well, this article may not have ever been written; it forces you to think outside the box and every week we see a subject that's been done to death, written in such a way that's fresh and new and I would hate to see that go by the wayside by opening up the comp to other topics.
 
Messages
17,427
For one,the teams who struggle to get their articles in each week and I'm in such a team, I don't believe they are using the Locker Room, or Clubhouse set up to it's full advantage. Surely it would help to use this as an avenue to bounce around ideas, post unfinished articles into, to get some assistance from team-mates. At the moment, certainly within the Roosters team, players are left to their own devices and apart from saying you can play in a game, there is absolutely no personal accountability beyond that.
There were times last year when the Locker Room was used extremely well. I was also sent some posts so I could check them over, I enjoyed that. This year, we have either (a) missed getting five in or (b) luckily got the five in.

As for recruitment, I was recruited by Henriete back in 2004 because she read some of my posts on the Roosters forum and liked the way I wrote and it went from there. I don't know if this will work too much, but I can tell you, it was pretty flattering to be singled out like that and it definitely encouraged me to check it all out and give it a go.
It's no crap we've struggled with recruitment. Put it this way, a few players didn't want to play for us because we are a Roosters side, plus a few members who we've successfully recruited are ignoring message or currently serving forum-based bans.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Some good points in all this discussion. I don't see there being one right answer to the issues raised, just a range of viewpoints being shared which is good in the long run.

I think a reason that teams are struggling to make five posts increasingly in recent years is simply time. Many team members who are keen enough to sign up for this writing caper don't really have the additional time to spend reading each others articles, and checking locker rooms and responding to PMs on the forums, or to texts/facebook/twitter or whatever methods people use for the team communications.

It's great when you get a bunch of people who do, but not all seven teams have that, or can find/recruit to that bunch easily. Again, time required of a captain in (constant) recruitment and communication is taxing, and putting my own hand up, I know we don't have seven captains up to the job as it currently stands. I'd love to give up the job, but there's just no-one keen to spend the amount of time doing the basics, let alone the advanced version people above have suggested is needed. A draft for new players and everyone in F7s taking responsibility for recruiting new players to F7s generally (rather than just to their own club) would assist greatly imo, if people want to keep 6 teams or above named after particular real life clubs.

But I'm not sure keeping a changing roster of smaller club-based F7s teams is the way to go in the future anyway? That's what's behind my idea for a reduction to 4 really strong teams (squads of 15 active players), and an increase in posts per match to 7 a side (to allow those who like to play every round to do so, but also allow for part time players or newbies to easily slot in). Have as many repeat rounds in the draw as is needed (4 teams play each other 3 times for 9 rounds), mixed with rep and knockout/PvP stuff to keep things mixed up and keep everyone happy with the number of games.

I think a maximum of 60 active players is about what we've got, we've just got them spread through 7 teams at the moment. The Titans and Bluebags have a system that hasn't failed them in terms of getting all posts in and should be guaranteed entry to next year's comp. The rest of our teams need to think about a different way of doing things imo, not so much merging, but maybe three or more sides folding and starting up a new entity not named after a current NRL club to form a super squad of 15 active keen writers, and take it from there?
 
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Messages
17,427
I think a reason that teams are struggling to make five posts increasingly in recent years is simply time. Many team members who are keen enough to sign up for this writing caper don't really have the additional time to spend reading each others articles, and checking locker rooms and responding to PMs on the forums, or to texts/facebook/twitter or whatever methods people use for the team communications.
We can blame time at points, but there are the number of people here (you included) that still keep the time required for this competition, despite other things they have to do. Titanic highlighted it well earlier.

It's great when you get a bunch of people who do, but not all seven teams have that, or can find/recruit to that bunch easily. Again, time required of a captain in (constant) recruitment and communication is taxing, and putting my own hand up, I know we don't have seven captains up to the job as it currently stands. I'd love to give up the job, but there's just no-one keen to spend the amount of time doing the basics, let alone the advanced version people above have suggested is needed. A draft for new players and everyone in F7s taking responsibility for recruiting new players to F7s generally (rather than just to their own club) would assist greatly imo, if people want to keep 6 teams or above named after particular real life clubs.
Being the Roosters is one reason why it is difficult to recruit, and I'm not using that as a lone excuse. It's a reason why the Bluebags works so well.

But I'm not sure keeping a changing roster of smaller club-based F7s teams is the way to go in the future anyway? That's what's behind my idea for a reduction to 4 really strong teams (squads of 15 active players), and an increase in posts per match to 7 a side (to allow those who like to play every round to do so, but also allow for part time players or newbies to easily slot in). Have as many repeat rounds in the draw as is needed (4 teams play each other 3 times for 9 rounds), mixed with rep and knockout/PvP stuff to keep things mixed up and keep everyone happy with the number of games.
Interesting idea.

I think a maximum of 60 active players is about what we've got, we've just got them spread through 7 teams at the moment. The Titans and Bluebags have a system that hasn't failed them in terms of getting all posts in and should be guaranteed entry to next year's comp. The rest of our teams need to think about a different way of doing things imo, not so much merging, but maybe three or more sides folding and starting up a new entity not named after a current NRL club to form a super squad of 15 active keen writers, and take it from there?
I do see what you mean. Personally though, I think the Panthers should be in that list. If that side can grab one or two players from clubs in trouble, they'd have an easy five every week. They're pretty much as committed as Newtown and GC.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
We can blame time at points, but there are the number of people here (you included) that still keep the time required for this competition, despite other things they have to do. Titanic highlighted it well earlier.
For me time is now the key/sole issue for me as a captain - time to communicate, chase up and cover, time to recruit. As enjoyable as it's been this year will definitely be my last in F7s, I've haven't got much more left in the tank.

Time is also a factor for the majority of our squad, who have put their hand up to play but who don't/can't spend heaps of time logged in at the forums these days. It also gets in the way of communication, and of fulfilling commitments made or otherwise expected.

Being the Roosters is one reason why it is difficult to recruit, and I'm not using that as a lone excuse. It's a reason why the Bluebags works so well.
True. (Titans works/ed because it was a new F7s team name entering at the same time as a new NRL team entered.) Trying a new non-team entity may pick up all of the keen F7s players whose own teams/captains can't muster the playing numbers any more. It's probably worth a try but needs good committed leadership/captaincy.

I do see what you mean. Personally though, I think the Panthers should be in that list. If that side can grab one or two players from clubs in trouble, they'd have an easy five every week. They're pretty much as committed as Newtown and GC.
I guess I've got a longer memory and can remember the Panthers when (with pretty much the same committed roster) they were having issues with making posts and with communication. They're going well currently, but haven't made all their posts this year, last year, or the year before.... So I didn't want to hold them up as automatic examples of a solid foolproof system, as compared to the Titans and Bluebags.

I don't think the Panthers are in a different boat to our teams really NT (or the Dragons or Rabbitohs), just that they're enjoying a purple patch at present? Maybe some of the currently active Panthers members could take the leadership roles on the superteam idea, only dropping the club-related name?
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Re: The Panthers purple patch: How long do purple patches last. Considering we made the finals last year and are in the top half of the ladder now. Bit of a stretch that comment bart.

It was only 2006 when we played in the finals previously. and we only just missed out in 2007 and 2008.
 
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