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Furious Warriors sponsor launches attack

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,096
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, I think in this case, public scrutiny - exasperated by the media, comes with constant abuse and sometimes even death threats. We’re also seeing it trickle down at amateur level as well making recruiting refs all the more difficult. On that level, I sympathise however, I personally believe teams do get reffed differently and the public deserves transparency but I don’t know what the answer is.

And I think you solve that by creating an appropriate platform for any questions regarding integrity, where it actually has a meaningful pathway and outcome. Not just integrity either, but competence, because 99.9999% of the time that's the actual issue.

I think a lot of this at the NRL level comes from the total lack of accountability. As others have mentioned, Annesley basically holds his weekly conference to try and twist himself into a position where no mistakes were made and the refs are above reproach. Even when he does admit to a mistake, nothing happens. That doesn't help anyone. It sets fans against referees so it's so much easier to abuse them on Sunday morning when they sin bin your kid because you already see them as the bad guys.

Obviously that's not on and obviously some people are just filth who will abuse them regardless. But I think change starts at the top right? Show some accountability and put systems in place aimed at accountability and must fans are immediately happier. Amateur refs should NEVER come under the same level of scrutiny but largely they don't need to.
 

gerg

Juniors
Messages
2,493
Yes, this is it.

People love to claim neutrality on this forum (and other fans elsewhere) because they think neutral means 'they aren't my favourite team', but a lot of people like the Warriors and see them as a bit of a second team for sure, and therefore have their own bias about how a team they like is being officiated. It's exactly the same situation in reverse when teams people hate get a f**king by the ref but you don't hear a peep.

That's not to say some teams don't get a raw deal (and others a favourable one), but it's not some conspiracy against the Warriors - its incompetence and probably a subconscious bias against 'lesser' clubs in general.

Do you have any thoughts on the Bunnies golden run towards a premiership in 2014? Or any thoughts on the #penaltyBroncos from a few years back?
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,279
Do you have any thoughts on the Bunnies golden run towards a premiership in 2014? Or any thoughts on the #penaltyBroncos from a few years back?
You don't need to go back to 2014 - Souths were practically gifted the game against Manly because a legend of their club died.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Paris was interviewed on the radio and said words to the effect of "when you've got high definition video footage which you're watching in slow motion and the NRL has been clear on what the ruling is...for example, when a shoulder in the tackle hits the head...then all you can expect is consistency and I don't think the Warriors are getting that"

Seems more measured and reasonable than Annesley and the refs are.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,507
This. I'm a Warriors fan to the core but Raiders Fans have the right to punch a few officials in the head for that one. Stuff court/legal lol
Yeah the Raiders regularly cop it in the arse. Small city team, never really have the media bandwagon on their side. Plus people love seeing Sticky blow up
 

Barnabee

Juniors
Messages
2
What grates me and a lot of others is not that referees make mistakes - they have to especially since we have gone back to one on field referee and they have to rule in a split second - it is the unbelievable decisions by the bunker. They have the luxury of replays from different angles and yet they refuse to see or adjudicate what virtually everybody else can see. Swinging arm on Tohu Harris, nope nothing to see here folks. I imagine this is the sort of thing that made Paris send out his now infamous tweet.

I can't believe the indignant response from what I saw on nrl360 and the radio show this morning that Brandy was on. How they've taken the high ground over this issue and now thinly veiled threats about legal actions just shows the integrity of the people involved. Rather than look at say the example above its straight away a thunderous response of how dare you challenge us.
 
Messages
15,497
Paris was interviewed on the radio and said words to the effect of "when you've got high definition video footage which you're watching in slow motion and the NRL has been clear on what the ruling is...for example, when a shoulder in the tackle hits the head...then all you can expect is consistency and I don't think the Warriors are getting that"

Seems more measured and reasonable than Annesley and the refs are.

Except the game is not refereed in high definition by slow motion video now is it? I've refereed junior rugby league for 4 years and had all kinds of accusations about being partial, or biased thrown at me. Most of it stems from people viewing most things thru a club biased view, and not knowing the rules anywhere near as well as they do. I can still remember a coach telling me after fulltime in one Under 16s game I did that a trip was an automatic send off offence - when the rule book says nothing of the kind.

Referees on average make a few hundred decisions a game, from when is a tackler "held", to where the 10m defence should be, to whether a pass is forward of not yet make a mistake and its always a conspiracy against the team so penalised by the decision made (or not made).

As to "tip" sheets? So what. Referees do it verbally all the time, especially if they haven't handled a game involving one or more teams before. heck in our junior league finals series, when the A-Grade referees had to do U/16s up to A Reserve Grade games, the referees who did those games in the regular season used to give them an idea of what the teams were like, whom may ty and push the envelope, and how disciplined or otherwise they were. That is the real world people. Referees are not some robots.

Finally as to those who are carrying on about "integrity". I suggest you go look in the mirror as I question yours. If you came up to me in the street and questioned mine, you'd probably get a knuckle sandwich as a response.
 
Messages
15,497
What grates me and a lot of others is not that referees make mistakes - they have to especially since we have gone back to one on field referee and they have to rule in a split second - it is the unbelievable decisions by the bunker. They have the luxury of replays from different angles and yet they refuse to see or adjudicate what virtually everybody else can see. Swinging arm on Tohu Harris, nope nothing to see here folks. I imagine this is the sort of thing that made Paris send out his now infamous tweet.

I can't believe the indignant response from what I saw on nrl360 and the radio show this morning that Brandy was on. How they've taken the high ground over this issue and now thinly veiled threats about legal actions just shows the integrity of the people involved. Rather than look at say the example above its straight away a thunderous response of how dare you challenge us.

It's one thing to say they stuffed up. Its quite another to say "you got it wrong because you are biased against us, or cheated us".
 

snickers007

Juniors
Messages
1,643
I don't see why their integrity can't be questioned. I question their integrity.

I refereed a game in the mid 2000s in country NSW, and an ex-Eels player was captain-coach of the away team. It was 'old boys day' and there was a BIG crowd in for the home team.

This guy runs out onto the field for the coin toss, didn't shake hands with either myself or the other captain, and first words out of his mouth were "make sure you make the decisions today, don't let the crowd make them for you" as he pointed his finger at me. Keep in mind, I've never met this dude in my life, and he has no idea what type of referee I was.

As you can probably imagine, every decision that went against his team was a "home ground decision", and every decision for his team was "about time".

I was 21 years old, with a couple of drunks running the sidelines with a flag - and he really backed me into a corner. If I decided to stick it to him for questioning my integrity, I'm proving him right. If I rolled over, and gave his team all the 50/50s, I'm no better. Even if he deserves to be sinbinned for mouthing off, his powerplay attempt has given him the moral highground in his eyes, and he learns no lesson.

For the record, his team won with a last minute field goal. He stayed on the field the entire game, despite my better judgement. And he pulled another powerplay move on me at full-time, offering a handshake, not letting go, and yelling at me for 30-40 seconds. I subsequently reported him after the match, had video evidence provided by the home team. He lost his shit at the judiciary, and copped a 6 week stint on the sideline.


That's a long story for a short point to make. Which is, questioning someone's integrity is a pre-action judgement. Once decisions start to be made an evidence base starts to build, by which judgements can and should be made. And it probably impacts junior and country refs more than the professionals.

I've got no doubt that there have been some NRL referees who have been approached and offered money for certain things (hell I saw it happen in the country) - and as a former referee I know that there are many levels of bias that impact decisions.

I can also understand referees missing certain things - but I cannot cope with the Bunker making shithouse decisions despite the technology and time afforded to them. Case in point, the Leota tackle on Harris - has been a penalty and sinbin everyday for the past 3-4 years.


Annesley's press conferences are a good idea in theory, but in reality he generally uses them as a soap box to defend the referees and hardly ever accepts any kind of accountability.

Even as someone who knows the Rule Book back to front, I still can't understand the level of mental gymnastics required to get to the conclusions he does. Absolute pelican of the highest order.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Except the game is not refereed in high definition by slow motion video now is it? I've refereed junior rugby league for 4 years and had all kinds of accusations about being partial, or biased thrown at me.

2 things here-

#1- nobody is condoning abuse or violence towards the referees and I am aware that this is the danger present in this conversation. Additionally, a distinction has to be made between professional referees and volunteers referees, such as yourself. It's reasonable to expect that professional referees are held to a different standard and a higher level of accountability.

#2- it seems to me that Paris' main complaint of inconsistency is against the bunker, who do have access to all the vision and act on in (or don't) suspiciously inconsistently.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
It's one thing to say they stuffed up. Its quite another to say "you got it wrong because you are biased against us, or cheated us".

When they stuff up once against you, that's one thing.

When their 'stuff ups' against you are consistent, I think the burden of proof that there isn't bias is on them.
 
Messages
15,497
I refereed a game in the mid 2000s in country NSW, and an ex-Eels player was captain-coach of the away team. It was 'old boys day' and there was a BIG crowd in for the home team.

This guy runs out onto the field for the coin toss, didn't shake hands with either myself or the other captain, and first words out of his mouth were "make sure you make the decisions today, don't let the crowd make them for you" as he pointed his finger at me. Keep in mind, I've never met this dude in my life, and he has no idea what type of referee I was.

As you can probably imagine, every decision that went against his team was a "home ground decision", and every decision for his team was "about time".

I was 21 years old, with a couple of drunks running the sidelines with a flag - and he really backed me into a corner. If I decided to stick it to him for questioning my integrity, I'm proving him right. If I rolled over, and gave his team all the 50/50s, I'm no better. Even if he deserves to be sinbinned for mouthing off, his powerplay attempt has given him the moral highground in his eyes, and he learns no lesson.

For the record, his team won with a last minute field goal. He stayed on the field the entire game, despite my better judgement. And he pulled another powerplay move on me at full-time, offering a handshake, not letting go, and yelling at me for 30-40 seconds. I subsequently reported him after the match, had video evidence provided by the home team. He lost his shit at the judiciary, and copped a 6 week stint on the sideline.


That's a long story for a short point to make. Which is, questioning someone's integrity is a pre-action judgement. Once decisions start to be made an evidence base starts to build, by which judgements can and should be made. And it probably impacts junior and country refs more than the professionals.

I've got no doubt that there have been some NRL referees who have been approached and offered money for certain things (hell I saw it happen in the country) - and as a former referee I know that there are many levels of bias that impact decisions.

I can also understand referees missing certain things - but I cannot cope with the Bunker making shithouse decisions despite the technology and time afforded to them. Case in point, the Leota tackle on Harris - has been a penalty and sinbin everyday for the past 3-4 years.




Even as someone who knows the Rule Book back to front, I still can't understand the level of mental gymnastics required to get to the conclusions he does. Absolute pelican of the highest order.

Very true. As one of my old referees coaches used to say, you can play video of an incident in a room packed full of 40 referees and you will often times wind up getting at least 10 different opinions as to what decision should be made by the referee (he actually did this to us at a meeting and I could not believe how many different views came up). The rules are not all black and white, especially when it comes to the application of the advantage rule, and that is something many people don't realise or just flat out ignore.

I do agree with you though about the decisions made by the Video Referee. Some of those are completely mystifying.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,737
Finally as to those who are carrying on about "integrity". I suggest you go look in the mirror as I question yours. If you came up to me in the street and questioned mine, you'd probably get a knuckle sandwich as a response.

lol I haven't heard the term 'knuckle sandwich' in a long time
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
Why did the Australian Captain questioning the Refs integrity mere weeks ago, not illicit this reaction?



It's clear there are different rules depending on your status in the game.

For example, I'd love to see Annesley explain why Latrell can lash out at a player multiple times and not even get a penalty, whilst a Warriors player is immediately binned
 
Messages
15,497
Good shout. Couldn't be a clearer example of questioning the referees integrity.

Would you care to bet? Did he state that the referees cheated or were biased> Nope. In fact from said article -

"I think Victor gets treated differently, just because of the aggression he plays with," Roosters head coach Robinson said. "It doesn't mean that's the truth. That's my opinion and Ted's opinion.

"That doesn't mean it is real, we might be biased. We feel like if it's a 50-50 in a physical contact then Rads has been on the other end of it. That's an opinion, I don't know if there is fact about it."

You compare that to what was in the tweet and it is very different. He stated that is their opinion, he indicated he could be biased himself and said he did not know if there is any fact in it. If you can't see that difference, then I doubt anyone can help you.
 

Vibing

Juniors
Messages
2,117
It's not the NRL from what I've read, but the Match officials Union.

This galls me even more, because there has been heaps of claims of bias and integrity issues with match officials from actual NRL coaches and administrators, and not once have they threatened this.
Id say because there is the ability of the governing body to sanction & punish the coaches & administrators for such comments , this is different.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,620
Would you care to bet? Did he state that the referees cheated or were biased> Nope. In fact from said article -



You compare that to what was in the tweet and it is very different. He stated that is their opinion, he indicated he could be biased himself and said he did not know if there is any fact in it. If you can't see that difference, then I doubt anyone can help you.

Cmon mate, that's clearly implying a bias. Teddy provided no such qualifiers either.

Also how would anyone else take Paris tweet, other then to be his opinion?
 
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