The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

I appreciate the old Brisbane comp had its fans but it didn't have the supporter base, national profile or history of the old Sydney comp. This isn't a crack at Brisbane, Qld or anybody involved. Don't get upset banana benders, but the two comps werent (literally) in the same league.

Not sure but the problem was bolting onto the existing NSWRL comp not creating a new one, it evolved rather than came about from a revolution. Crowds back in the early 80's were pretty insignificant (Wests 3k, Norths 4k etc) so not like the League back in those days was massive. SL was the revolution the game needed in the 80's really and for the right reasons, not for the benefit of News Ltd pay TV.
But as said before its pointless discussion, we are where we are and nothing is going to change.

 

[Canard]

I appreciate the old Brisbane comp had its fans but it didn't have the supporter base, national profile or history of the old Sydney comp. This isn't a crack at Brisbane, Qld or anybody involved. Don't get upset banana benders, but the two comps werent (literally) in the same league.

By the 1980's the standard of players, due to poker machine monies, was skewed to the Sydney but the history and supporter base of the BRL were very comparable.

I have no doubt that if Sir Joh had allowed pokies in QLD, you would have seen 4 or 5 QLD teams in a united "NRL/ARL" by the end of the 80's

 

[Timbo]

18 team comp
Nqld Cowboys
Brisbane Broncos
Gold Coast
Redcliffe Dolphins
Ipswich Jets
Newcastle Knights
Manly Central Coast Sea Eagles
Western Sydney Eels
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
South Sydney Rabbitohs
St.Geroge Suntherland Dragons
Illawarra Steelers
Canberra Raiders
West Coast Panthers
Adelaide/Eastern Roosters
Melbourne Storm
Auckland Warriors
Christchurch Sharks

Did you have a f**king stroke mid post?

 

[Timbo]

TBF, we dis exactly this in Brisbane and it seemed to work fine...

Kill 10 suburban teams and create a single united club for te national competition. RL in Brisbane aeems to be doing fine.

Unless you want to argue thats totally different because "Brisbane is a united city while Sydney has local rivalries" or some convenient bullshit like that...

That's actually a pretty fair point. BRL crowds were ~20,000 in the 70s but everyone abandoned them for the Broncos pretty damn fast.

 

[herbert henry1908]

FORMER WARRINGAH MAYOR SAYS LOTTOLAND CAN BE UPGRADED WITHOUT STATE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT
Robbie Patterson, Manly Daily
September 1, 2017 4:57pm

• Sea Eagles consider games at Warringah Rats home-ground
• Sea Eagles regaining their mojo

A BOLD plan to upgrade Lottoland, with or without the State Government’s support would be implemented under a Michael Regan-led Northern Beaches Council.

The former Warringah mayor, running for the merged council as leader of Your Northern Beaches, has vowed to seek expressions of interest from developers to finally undertake a 23,000-seat venue upgrade.

Michael Regan Picture: Adam Ward
Mr Regan said the plan was to offer a long-term lease to a developer for the land south of Lottoland and in return get a stadium upgrade and regular maintenance of the grounds.

The “field of dreams” plans proposed by the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles in 2015 included restaurants, bars, retail and possibly an educational facility.

On Friday, Sea Eagles owner Scott Penn said it was a promising step forward.

Manly Sea Eagles Chariman Scott Penn. Picture: (AAP Image/Dan Himbrechts)
“I think it is fantastic — we have been vocal for some time that our ideal outcome is a 20,000-plus seat stadium,” he said.

“We certainly have explored various options and if that was to happen it could truly maximise the opportunities here.”

Mr Regan said the time for talk was over and the new council needed to act.

“Like the rest of the community, we are tired of the State Government not prioritising developments for Brookvale Oval,” he said.

Artwork of the proposed redevelopment of Lottoland, then known as Brookvale Oval. Picture: Marchese Partners
“Their inaction on this issue has been a major source of frustration for the Sea Eagles and the broader peninsula community.”

Mr Regan said he thought there would be strong interest from a university to build a campus but stressed the plans would go to the community for feedback.

“By securing expressions of interest we will develop a plan that the State Government can work to and fund, in partnership with the council,” he said.

But Mr Regan said there would be enough interest from developers to secure the future of the Fortress without the state’s funds.


There is a bold plan to upgrade Lottoland, with or without the State Government’s support. Picture: (AAP Image/David Moir).
The Sea Eagles have been promised $10 million from the State Government and $12.5 million from the Federal Government for upgrades, including a 4000-seat grandstand.

Warringah federal Liberal MP Tony Abbott said the upgrade funding he obtained was still on the table.

“I’m as impatient as you are to make this happen and look forward to working with the new Northern Beaches Council and the Sea Eagles to get it done as soon as possible,” he said.
A spokeswoman for NSW Sport Minister Stuart Ayres said any concept was the responsibility of the council.


“The NSW Government continues to work closely with the Sea Eagles on their centre of excellence proposal,” she said.

The club also has a bid in for $10 million of the $40 million available in grants to build a centre of excellence at Narrabeen.

Mr Penn said if the Sea Eagles could build their ideal headquarters at Brookvale the centre of excellence would be relocated to Lottoland.

He said the club was designing and fully expected to have the state’s promised money to start its 4000-seat grandstand.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...t/news-story/f83bc6130fc4d605c3558cc96fc1999c

Scott Penn talks all things Manly Sea Eagles

 

[Timbo]

FORMER WARRINGAH MAYOR SAYS LOTTOLAND CAN BE UPGRADED WITHOUT STATE GOVERNMENT

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yeah it seems a bit far fetched.

But I wonder if they could come up with a decent chunk of change privately, would the state govt up their contributions a bit?

There's $22 million in the table from govts now, with another potential $10m

So $32m.

Could say $100m build a stand down each side & a hill at each end? Be a lot better than what's there now.

Something like the old Parra before they added the seating at the ends.

 

[siv]

I very much doubt you would be able to build a 60k seat stadium on the current SFS site. Not unless you did way with all the offices, and the car parks, which they won't do. I dare say that is why the SCG Trust wants to poach land from the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust so they can build the new one over Lake Kippax.

As I've said repeatedly, for that to occur (i.e. the new stadium over Lake Kippax) there would need to be legislative changes to the Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust Act and the Sydney Cricket and sports ground Trust Act to enable it to happen. I very much doubt this NSW Government is willing to burn the political capital needed to get any such legislation through the NSW Legislative Council where it does not hold a majority.

As to the light rail, if you think it will be the panacea to the area's transport problems when their are big crowds, read today's media reports about why the inner west light rail can't run more services than it currently does to meet demand. I very much suspect similar issues will plague the eastern suburbs light rail too.

With no Easter Show they dhould use some of the adjacent Easter Show grounds immediately to the east of the SFS

 

[herbert henry1908]

With no Easter Show they dhould use some of the adjacent Easter Show grounds immediately to the east of the SFS

I think that land is in a long term lease arrangement.

 

[Timbo]

Yeah it seems a bit far fetched.

But I wonder if they could come up with a decent chunk of change privately, would the state govt up their contributions a bit?

There's $22 million in the table from govts now, with another potential $10m

So $32m.

Could say $100m build a stand down each side & a hill at each end? Be a lot better than what's there now.

Something like the old Parra before they added the seating at the ends.

It does say something though if the plan is to build a ground to 2/3 of the standard of one that was just knocked down for not being modern enough.

 

[herbert henry1908]

It does say something though if the plan is to build a ground to 2/3 of the standard of one that was just knocked down for not being modern enough.

Mostly it's a reflection of a political reality.

Northern Beaches are screwed all all types of infrastructure. They're only just about to get a decent hospital.

 

[siv]

I think that land is in a long term lease arrangement.

Have Sydney Council rezone it

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

That's actually a pretty fair point. BRL crowds were ~20,000 in the 70s but everyone abandoned them for the Broncos pretty damn fast.

This has been the standard model for all RL rationalisation. Its not about demoting clubs from a comp, its about creating a comp that supercedes the existing one and allowing the current clubs to just fade into obscurity...

I think SuperLeague would have been a total success had the ARL been onboard and SL offered a better board structure.

If the ARLC are serious about moving RL content out of Sydney and spreading it across markets, killing/moving NRL teams is easily the hardest course. All they need to do is reduce the NRL season and expand the rep calendar...

 

[Cumberland Throw]

This has been the standard model for all RL rationalisation. Its not about demoting clubs from a comp, its about creating a comp that supercedes the existing one and allowing the current clubs to just fade into obscurity...

I think SuperLeague would have been a total success had the ARL been onboard and SL offered a better board structure.

If the ARLC are serious about moving RL content out of Sydney and spreading it across markets, killing/moving NRL teams is easily the hardest course. All they need to do is reduce the NRL season and expand the rep calendar...

To us it sounds like SL idea would have killed all support for teams in Sydney

But how does everyone think all those soccer teams around the world got called "United"??

A lot in the 40s and 50s we're a combination of 3-4 local teams to create a super "United" club

Unfortunately in the super competitive pay tv version of life we had in the 90s those United teams would not had 20-30 years to build a tradition

 

[herbert henry1908]

Light rail is an absolute farce. I've yet to see a single explanation as to how it will be able to carry any more passengers than just chucking on a bunch of extra buses and a couple extra bus lanes. Will not make a lick of difference.

The only solution that would have worked was a metro line. Yeah it costs a buttload more, but better to pay a high cost for a service that will work for the next 50 years than save some money but get exactly zero benefit.

Agree with much of what you've said.

The biggest advantage though is customer preference. Seen research showing customers much prefer light rail over buses, so there's more potential to take more cars off the road.

Obviously though you need to weigh up wether the initial capital costs are worth it, and as you say a metro line would be preferable.

Sydney though had so little spent on public transport infrastructure that I guess you can't do everything at once. Current govt only have the money because they got the books in order & sold off the electricity network.

 

[herbert henry1908]

They are copping more and more grief over their stadium developments while hospital budgets continue to be cut.

Overall health budget is up significantly. Cant speak for individual hospitals but I know the current budget has seen a 10% increase in health spending.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Does Sydney need two large rectangular stadiums? Maybe as Melbourne has two large ovals they think they do? Have they offered any justification for doing both on this scale and expense?

It doesn't.

We really only need a 70k seat stadium & 3-4 others ranging from 25k-35k.

The reason why we're seeing possibly 2 major stadiums is the power of the SCG trust and the power of the votes in western Sydney.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The more I think about this the more I think the NRL is barking up the wrong tree by insisting the lions share goes to ANZ.

Rugby League needs 1 70k stadium in the city. Why are we fussed whether it is in Homebush or the CBD? If the NRL agreed with the government for the SFS to be upgraded, with a 70k capacity, and got Homebush refurbed or rebuilt smaller, it would likely be a done deal by now.

The NRL initially backed the concept for a stadium in the inner city over Homebush. They even paid $750k towards the concept design.

It was the clubs, specifically Souths, dogs & tigers that pushed for ANZ.

I think those clubs though would be quite happy with a 40k seat venue at Homebush, but the previous owners of Homebush were pushing for a large stadium & the clubs had no choice but to back that concept.

Now the govt own ANZ though they could easily change things up. But really it's become such a joke as is, imagine going back to the drawing board yet again?

 

[Jamberoo]

I read on another stadium site that to work out the perfect capacity it should be two-thirds full, two thirds of the time. I reckon a stadium needs to be 2/3 full to have a decent atmosphere.
The reason that Adelaide Oval is 90% full every week, it that they did not rebuild it for the maximum crowd (they could fill 100K 2 - 4 times a year), but for the maximum atmosphere (50K).
What is the point of a 75K capacity that will be filled 3 - 4 times per year? Just to compete with Melbourne? Put the ego aside and build a 30K - 35K stadium similar to Parra at Moore Park. Could even get a roof for $400m - $450m. Refit ANZ to hold 50k - 55K max. Forget the upper bowl. Just drop it down, and fix the gradient.
If NRL just wants to boast about 80K three times a year, you might as well leave ANZ as it is.
Building stadiums bigger than they need to be is a surefire way to ensure that they are empty most weeks.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I read on another stadium site that to work out the perfect capacity it should be two-thirds full, two thirds of the time. I reckon a stadium needs to be 2/3 full to have a decent atmosphere.
The reason that Adelaide Oval is 90% full every week, it that they did not rebuild it for the maximum crowd (they could fill 100K 2 - 4 times a year), but for the maximum atmosphere (50K).
What is the point of a 75K capacity that will be filled 3 - 4 times per year? Just to compete with Melbourne? Put the ego aside and build a 30K - 35K stadium similar to Parra at Moore Park. Could even get a roof for $400m - $450m. Refit ANZ to hold 50k - 55K max. Forget the upper bowl. Just drop it down, and fix the gradient.
If NRL just wants to boast about 80K three times a year, you might as well leave ANZ as it is.
Building stadiums bigger than they need to be is a surefire way to ensure that they are empty most weeks.

Yeah you make some great points.

Only thing I'd say is a city the size of Sydney does need a stadium to attract international events.

Will Liverpool, Arsenal etc come for 50k?

I think about 65k would be a good number for our premier stadium, but yeah the secondary one defyonly needs to be 30-35k