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Future NRL Stadiums part II

Discussion in 'NRL' started by insert.pause, May 8, 2015.

  1. carcharias

    carcharias Immortal

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    Sorry, I zoned out for a second...
    Local councils are a what?
     
  2. Last Week

    Last Week Bench

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    Ram comes across as the kind of person who watches conspiracy videos on YouTube as gospel. Alex Jones I'd imagine.
     
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  3. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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  4. Vee

    Vee Bench

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    You've never dealt well with facts.
     
  5. Captain Apollo

    Captain Apollo First Grade

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    I know it was a bit off the thread topic, but it needed to be refuted carch. Sorry for causing the "zone out". :)
     
  6. carcharias

    carcharias Immortal

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    I’m glad you got the very bad joke.
    You’d be a blast at a party.
     
  7. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/former-...-23-billion-stadium-deal-20180111-h0gvn9.html

    Former Victoria premier Jeff Kennett defends NSW's $2.3 billion stadium deal
    Former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett has poked his nose into Sydney's great stadium debate, claiming NSW premier Gladys Berejiklian is merely mopping up the mess left behind by Bob Carr in the 1990s.

    Kennett was in office from 1992 to 1999 and in that time invested hundreds of millions of dollars into Melbourne's sporting facilities.

    On his watch, Melbourne became the envy of the sporting world. Etihad Stadium was built, Albert Park revitalised for the Australian Formula One grand prix, and Melbourne Park's tennis facilities beefed up to ensure the Australian Open was never played anywhere else.

    He understood what many in NSW can't wrap their heads around as they continue to moan about Berejiklian's $2.3 billion knockdown and rebuild of Allianz and ANZ stadiums: that major sporting events pay for themselves many times over because of what they bring to the local economy.

    "When we started this process of attracting major events in the 1990s, your premier at the time said, 'No, this is inappropriate, NSW is not going to chase these sorts of events'," Kennett said. "That was Bob Carr. They lost 10 to 15 years before they started to realise the importance of major events.

    "Major events add confidence to the community. When we started this in 1992, our state was rundown. We quickly rebuilt the confidence of Victorians in their own state. There is none of that in NSW. You lost 15 years because the government at the time thought it was 'inappropriate'.

    "What Gladys is doing now is belated recognition that if NSW is going to be part of this not just national but international world of events, they're going to have to upgrade their facilities. It costs money. I understand the premier is coming under a fair bit of flak but no state is just about education, it's not just about health. You judge a state on its complexity and totality: sport is very much part of that."


    In this space last week, your humble columnist argued that people underestimate how important sport is to this city and state. They'd prefer we spent the money on baby incubators and the like. (With that in mind ... behold! The Baby Incubator Stadium! Problem solved).

    Over the past 15 years, whenever Melbourne has hosted a State of Origin match, I'll attend the obligatory media conference involving NSW and Queensland captains and coaches as well as the Victorian sports minister and/or major events minister.

    When the speaking is done, I'll chat to said ministers and they will tell you exactly why they want NSW and Queensland belting each other before 91,000 people at the MCG.

    "Because one match fills our hotel rooms and bars and restaurants in the middle of winter," is the usual reply.

    You can roll out academics and economists and reports and say these stadiums are a waste of money. I'll defer to the city that for decades has smashed the rest of the country when it comes to sport and culture and the man who first got the ball rolling.

    "How do you measure a state's confidence?" Kennett asked. "You can add up the cost of stadiums and how much they are to build. But you cannot put a figure on the economic add-ons that come when you have a rolling program of major sporting and cultural events that mean hotels have high occupancy levels all the time, restaurants and bars are thriving, people using taxis and spending money ... the expenditure shouldn't be judged in the years in which it is spent. The return is over decades."

    But is that going to cover the $2.3 billion, Mr Kennett? What about the baby incubators?

    "It shouldn't just be judged on financial benefits. It's got to be based on reputation. If you're going to have people wanting to go to an event, they want good quality facilities: good food, good toilets, good viewing lines. They want comfort.

    "NSW has never been pro sport as much as Melbourne and it's partly because you haven't had the facilities. You have the SCG and that's about it. If you want to be serious you have to want to compete. What then is left for NSW, apart from the drudgery of going to work? There's got to be more to life. Major events, cultural and sport, give people the opportunity to go to a different place."

    It is simplistic and duplicitous to claim "these stadiums only service a handful of NRL clubs, let them pay for them". What elitist bullshit. And they do. They pay a hirer's fee, like everyone else.

    Truth is, these stadiums serve many sports, and many events, many headline artists, and if they are not upgraded Sydney soon won't be seeing any of it.

    Kennett's comments about Carr remind us of the story that often gets a run in rugby league circles about the night the former premier attended a State of Origin match – and read a book.

    "I've used that story so many times," Kennett said. "I like Bob but he was from a different planet. The ET of Australian politics."
     
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  8. POPEYE

    POPEYE Coach

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    There's more important things to worry about than what Kennett thinks is kosher, Victoria's hobby is filling a stadium, NSW should concern itself with not being like Victoria
     
  9. beave

    beave Coach

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    Kennett is 100% spot on. Couldn’t agree with him anymore.

    I can’t believe I just said that.....
     
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  10. clarency

    clarency Juniors

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    Maybe someone should remind Kennett where the 2000 Olympics were held...

    If Stadium Australia was redeveloped into a rectangle stadium as originally planned this would've been much cheaper. It's easy to gloss over that fact.

    EDIT: Wait wait... even the slightest bit of research on this shows how much BS Kennett is spewing. Bob Carr was in office from 95'-05', so half of the time Kennett pins on Bob Carr wasn't during Carr's term, which is less than half of Carr's total term.

    The 00' Olympics to be held in Sydney were announced in 1993, meaning that Sydney was building major event infrastructure ($6.6 bil) throughout the entire decade in the run up to the Olympics, then to be labelled unanimously as the greatest there had ever been. One might even speculate that Melbourne's major sporting redevelopments occurred in response to what NSW were doing.

    Boy how some people try to rewrite history.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  11. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    Bob Carr thought Origin was played between Victoria and NSW
     
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  12. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    blame the Labor government and AFL for f**king it up
     
  13. clarency

    clarency Juniors

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    Exactly... nothing to do with NSW's lack of investment in the early 90s...
     
  14. beave

    beave Coach

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    *disclaimer

    I agree with his attitude towards stadiums/events and nothing else.
     
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  15. El Diablo

    El Diablo Post Whore

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    thanks Bob
     
  16. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    So what NEW events will these stadiums bring to Sydney? He has a point re sports tourism but that only works if you have new events or more people attend the existing ones. I’m not aware of Sydney currently missing out on any sports events because of stadium size or quality?
     
  17. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Immortal

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    Rebuilt SFS brings zero in. ANZ will be just as new and holds more so why would events there change. Take the $750m waste there and it is a good deal
     
  18. Jatz Crackers

    Jatz Crackers Bench

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    Sydney stadium debate must come down to 'value capture'

    · Roy Masters



    When I taught economics in NSW high schools, there were a couple of concepts the students
    easily understood, with both relevant to the ongoing debate over whether the NSW government
    should invest $2 billion-plus in new stadiums.

    The first is "value capture", meaning who derives benefit from an investment? This is relevant to
    the argument that the money should be spent on schools and hospitals, or, if the funds must
    come from the sports budget, sprinkled around the state on dressing sheds and suburban
    ovals.

    The students understood that the benefits of spending public money on education can be
    non-egalitarian, with only the bright kids capturing any value and the less intelligent waiting
    until they reached school-leaving age.Spending on stadiums doesn't benefit those not
    interested in sport or musical shows, but the events they host do produce a return for the
    owner.
    Most stadia are owned by state governments who charge high fees for the hire of the facility. Remember the now-defunct Gold Coast A-League team owned by Clive Palmer, who capped the crowd at the Robina stadium because an increase would trigger additional costs such as attendants and cleaners?

    The stadium rental income, together with the tax payable to the government from the services provided by caterers, taxi companies, hotels and restaurants charging fans attending the event all contribute to public coffers.

    This is why NSW Sport Minister Stuart Ayres says the revenue from stadiums will pay for future hospitals and schools.

    So why doesn't he quantify the benefit? Well, some value captured is notoriously difficult to measure.

    Estimations of the value captured by Melbourne's Formula One grand prix have been widely divergent, with low valuations supporting the "ban the vrooms vrooms", while high estimates are used to justify the money spent by the Victorian government supporting the event.

    Some value captured is immeasurable. Residents of the Victorian capital call their city "Marvellous Melbourne" because they really believe it. They have, within a couple of tram stops, access to the MCG and its sports museum, the National Tennis Centre, AAMI rectangular stadium, Etihad stadium and the cultural precinct, including the Arts Centre and National Gallery.

    These amenities are all part of an interactive whole, a sum far in excess of its parts, "a critical mass of social infrastructure" – another concept easily understood by high school economics students.

    Melbourne's efficient public transport system means the negatives – the networking costs such as traffic congestion – are minimised.

    This is what former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett meant when he said Melbourne's facilities, "add comfort to the community".

    Sydney visitors to the Australian Open in Melbourne will have noted these benefits and will stay in the city's hotels, enjoying the tennis and theatre shows for days, providing revenue for the Victorian government.

    Some of this revenue is used to bid for national and international events that Sydney would like to host.

    The value captured justifies the subsidy.

    Visitors to the Australian Open will wander past the MCG and study the statues of sportsmen, such as fast bowler Dennis Lillee. Now, there's another benefit that can't be quantified. It may have cost $50,000 to erect but how do you measure the benefit to the citizenry?

    OK, Melbourne has geographic advantages over Sydney in this respect. the Yarra River, like London's Thames, is not an impediment to the cluster of facilities, unlike Sydney's harbour, which divides the city.

    North Shore silvertails will not cross the Harbour Bridge at weekends.

    But Homebush, with its ANZ stadium and associated amenities, can eventually become a "critical mass of social infrastructure", particularly with big employers, such as the Commonwealth Bank, moving there.

    The light rail linking Randwick and the SCG and the new Allianz stadium, together with Fox Studios, will make this hub more interactive.

    The argument that $2 billion should be sprinkled around Sydney on grassroots facilities reminds some economists of the history of foreign aid in Third World countries.

    Who funds the maintenance of the facilities built? China provides the capital to build the power plant but there is no budget to maintain it. Similarly, what revenue is derived from a new suburban dressing shed?

    The costs of collection of revenue would probably exceed the value derived.

    Compare this to a focused, income-generating asset, such as a stadium that funds its own maintenance costs.

    Furthermore, a stadium can be an egalitarian asset, using price discrimination to fill it, with luxury boxes for the rich and low-cost seating for the poor.

    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/sydney-...me-down-to-value-capture-20180116-h0j1tk.html

    So there you have it. Even school students are more economically astute than a bandana wearing tosser from the private school set
     
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  19. insert.pause

    insert.pause First Grade

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    but, but, schools & hospitals...
     
  20. beave

    beave Coach

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