The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[titoelcolombiano]

If they can only get 8k then we shouldn't be expanding the game. There is no reason a new Brisbane centralised club couldn't and shouldn't be aiming for a 20k fans base from inception. Its the games second biggest city with only one team and 3mill people plus. Is RL really that unpopular in Brisbane it couldn't have a second club with 20k plus crowds? I'm thinking not.

Yep crushers averaged 20k plus in their first season and that was 23 years ago. Do it right and Bris 2 have 25k attendances waiting for them. A draw containing these teams will make sure of it:

Broncs 40k min
Storm 30k min
Titans 25k
Cowboys 30k
Warriors 30k
Dragons 25k

 

[titoelcolombiano]

This depends on how much content Suncorp can handle and any restrictions that may be in place as well. If there are restrictions on the use of Suncorp then a 2nd stadium may become necessary. I seem to recall hearing only 2 concerts can take place there every year so if true there may be a similar restriction for sports as mentioned earlier.

As of now there is a minimum of:

• 12 Broncos games
• 13 Roar games
• 8 Reds games
• 1 Origin
• 1 Double Header NRL
• 1 QLD Cup Grand Final

Just with club and Origin, throw in Kangaroos, Wallabies, Socceroos, finals /trials for Broncos, Roar or Reds, concerts and the 'Magic Weekend' and you probably average around 45 days a year in use which may be acceptable but..

Throw in another 12 NRL games and maybe a second A-league team and the number grows to a level that will probably bring a 2nd stadium in to requirement whether it be through wear and tear, whinging locals or both.

You could comfortably move 20+ existing games without troubling the capacity of a 25-30k seater with touching capacity, just a matter of political/club/sport jostling as to where the best location would be.

Just move the reds to Ballymore their seven fans will fit comfortably in there

 

[herbert henry1908]

OK, I think this mentality needs to stop.

The only way these stadiums ever get build is if there are multiple stakeholders on board. As I said, there would need to be an agreement in place that a league team that agrees to base itself out of the stadium gains the same rights as the QRU.

What do you mean by rights? I mean they effectively own the venue, we’d be paying them rent.

You can have multiple stockholders at a completely new venue, and if you’re going to invest hundreds of millions, it may as well be at a better location.

Re the mentality, I have absolutely no issue with sharing stadiums, it makes sense in order to get them built. The issue here is ownership. The same rights at ballymore would mean paying zero rent, I don’t think that’s going to fly.

 

[jim_57]

Just move the reds to Ballymore their seven fans will fit comfortably in there

Pretty much. It would probably be better for the NRL if a new stadium was in a stategic location for whichever bid they pick (if they ever do). But to get a stadium across the line you'd need Union and A-League on board as well which probably means it will be in a central location.

 

[Timbo]

What do you mean by rights? I mean they effectively own the venue, we’d be paying them rent.

You can have multiple stockholders at a completely new venue, and if you’re going to invest hundreds of millions, it may as well be at a better location.

Re the mentality, I have absolutely no issue with sharing stadiums, it makes sense in order to get them built. The issue here is ownership. The same rights at ballymore would mean paying zero rent, I don’t think that’s going to fly.

I understand what you’re saying, but I think we have to be realistic if we want a boutique Brisbane venue.

Ballymore is 85% built, has development plans and council approval for expansion. It’s by far the best bet of actually getting the ground league needs.

As for giving union a leg up, are we really worried about the QRU? I’m a union fan as well of league, and union is battling. Union aren’t going to leapfrog league simply by getting a boutique ground. If anything it’d encourage the Reds to move away from Brisbane’s premier stadium.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I understand what you’re saying, but I think we have to be realistic if we want a boutique Brisbane venue.

Ballymore is 85% built, has development plans and council approval for expansion. It’s by far the best bet of actually getting the ground league needs.

As for giving union a leg up, are we really worried about the QRU? I’m a union fan as well of league, and union is battling. Union aren’t going to leapfrog league simply by getting a boutique ground. If anything it’d encourage the Reds to move away from Brisbane’s premier stadium.

Ironically the Queensland Reds moving back there could hurt the deal, it would mean Queensland stadiums would be losing revenue.

Why would the govt provide funds to a venue that’ll possibly steal its tenants? The roar would be odds on to leave as well.

Unless part of the deal is the govt getting Ballymore back, I don’t see it happening.

 

[jim_57]

Ironically the Queensland Reds moving back there could hurt the deal, it would mean Queensland stadiums would be losing revenue.

Why would the govt provide funds to a venue that’ll possibly steal its tenants? The roar would be odds on to leave as well.

Unless part of the deal is the govt getting Ballymore back, I don’t see it happening.

I think the only way a 2nd decent stadium in Brisbane happens is if the Government gets control of it. They aren't going to gift wrap a nice little 300k present and give it to Union and Ballymore, this isn't Victoria.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/02/08/aloisi-welcomes-brisbane-stadium-push
Went back and checked the original A-League article about a push for 2nd stadium. There a few interesting little forgotten bits of info in there (assuming they're all correct).

• A new stadium could form part of the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup bid.
• A-League "Chiefs" have encouraged Roar to look for alternate venues to Suncorp.
• Ballymore and Perry Park listed as "the two obvious venues".
• 'Brisbane City' A-League expansion hopefuls plan to play at Ballymore.
• There are also doubts over Suncorp's capacity to host NRL or A-League expansion sides with the stadium's event calendar nearly full.

So if all that is to be believed, especially the part about Suncorp being close to capacity, then a new stadium would probably be required to "fit" another team in to the city whether it be NRL, A-League or both.

Drop an equivalent of the new Parra stadium in somewhere and we have a winner.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I think the only way a 2nd decent stadium in Brisbane happens is if the Government gets control of it. They aren't going to gift wrap a nice little 300k present and give it to Union and Ballymore, this isn't Victoria.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/02/08/aloisi-welcomes-brisbane-stadium-push
Went back and checked the original A-League article about a push for 2nd stadium. There a few interesting little forgotten bits of info in there (assuming they're all correct).

• A new stadium could form part of the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup bid.
• A-League "Chiefs" have encouraged Roar to look for alternate venues to Suncorp.
• Ballymore and Perry Park listed as "the two obvious venues".
• 'Brisbane City' A-League expansion hopefuls plan to play at Ballymore.
• There are also doubts over Suncorp's capacity to host NRL or A-League expansion sides with the stadium's event calendar nearly full.

So if all that is to be believed, especially the part about Suncorp being close to capacity, then a new stadium would probably be required to "fit" another team in to the city whether it be NRL, A-League or both.

Well the roar almost certainly leave Suncorp if a new stadium is built, which frees up the events calendar.

Is the event calendar related to wear & tear on the turf, or is it the impact on the residents? Pretty ridiculous if it’s the latter. Even the turf issue can be overcome with new technologies.

If the NRL said they wanted to expand with a second Brisbane team, I think the Queensland govt would bend over to make it happen. Easiest way would be changing the event calendar rules, but if they want to build a new stadium then we have the best of both worlds.

 

[jim_57]

Well the roar almost certainly leave Suncorp if a new stadium is built, which frees up the events calendar.

Is the event calendar related to wear & tear on the turf, or is it the impact on the residents? Pretty ridiculous if it’s the latter. Even the turf issue can be overcome with new technologies.

If the NRL said they wanted to expand with a second Brisbane team, I think the Queensland govt would bend over to make it happen. Easiest way would be changing the event calendar rules, but if they want to build a new stadium then we have the best of both worlds.

I'd imagine Soccer and Union would benifit more, but some 2nd Brisbane NRL side games, QLD Cup and smaller Kangaroos Test matches could all make good use of a smaller stadium from a selfish point of view. That frees up Suncorp to be a majority Rugby League venue.

I'm not honestly sure the reason for the restrictions but I could imagine both of those reasons may have something to do with it.

IF NRL gets a second side playing esclusively out of Suncorp, the venue would have annually:

• 12 Broncos games + Finals
• 12 Bombers/Brothers/Jets/Dolphins games + Finals
• 13-14 Brisbane Roar games + Finals & Asian Cup (& FFA Cup?)
• 8 Reds games + Finals
• 1 Origin
• 2-5 Tests (Kangaroos, Wallabies & Socceroos)
• QLD Cup Grand Final
• NRL Double header and/or magic weekend
• 2 Concerts

So minimum is probably 50 days in use annually. A freak year rolls around with extra tests and all teams making finals and it could get upwards of 60. I'm not sure how many other stadiums could compare to that number of events per year, it seems like a lot especially during peak March-September.

Adding in a 2nd A-League side as well would definetely push it past it's practical limits.

 

[Suitman]

but if they want to build a new stadium then we have the best of both worlds.

That won't happen.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I'd imagine Soccer and Union would benifit more, but some 2nd Brisbane NRL side games, QLD Cup and smaller Kangaroos Test matches could all make good use of a smaller stadium from a selfish point of view. That frees up Suncorp to be a majority Rugby League venue.

I'm not honestly sure the reason for the restrictions but I could imagine both of those reasons may have something to do with it.

IF NRL gets a second side playing esclusively out of Suncorp, the venue would have annually:

• 12 Broncos games + Finals
• 12 Bombers/Brothers/Jets/Dolphins games + Finals
• 13-14 Brisbane Roar games + Finals & Asian Cup (& FFA Cup?)
• 8 Reds games + Finals
• 1 Origin
• 2-5 Tests (Kangaroos, Wallabies & Socceroos)
• QLD Cup Grand Final
• NRL Double header and/or magic weekend
• 2 Concerts

So minimum is probably 50 days in use annually. A freak year rolls around with extra tests and all teams making finals and it could get upwards of 60. I'm not sure how many other stadiums could compare to that number of events per year, it seems like a lot especially during peak March-September.

Adding in a 2nd A-League side as well would definetely push it past it's practical limits.

Yeah second Aleague & second NRL team will see a second stadium be built, way too much for Suncorp.

 

[herbert henry1908]

That won't happen.

I didn’t think so either, but @jim_57 lays out a pretty convincing case if Brisbane got two new footy teams.

Could Suncorp cope with 5 full time tenants?

 

[Perth Red]

I think the only way a 2nd decent stadium in Brisbane happens is if the Government gets control of it. They aren't going to gift wrap a nice little 300k present and give it to Union and Ballymore, this isn't Victoria.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2018/02/08/aloisi-welcomes-brisbane-stadium-push
Went back and checked the original A-League article about a push for 2nd stadium. There a few interesting little forgotten bits of info in there (assuming they're all correct).

• A new stadium could form part of the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup bid.
• A-League "Chiefs" have encouraged Roar to look for alternate venues to Suncorp.
• Ballymore and Perry Park listed as "the two obvious venues".
• 'Brisbane City' A-League expansion hopefuls plan to play at Ballymore.
• There are also doubts over Suncorp's capacity to host NRL or A-League expansion sides with the stadium's event calendar nearly full.

So if all that is to be believed, especially the part about Suncorp being close to capacity, then a new stadium would probably be required to "fit" another team in to the city whether it be NRL, A-League or both.

Drop an equivalent of the new Parra stadium in somewhere and we have a winner.

Don’t really understand the full calendar, Optus stadium is hosting 2 afl clubs, cricket, other events and a number of concerts. Anz will host a lot more, why is Suncorp limited in its use?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Don’t really understand the full calendar, Optus stadium is hosting 2 afl clubs, cricket, other events and a number of concerts. Anz will host a lot more, why is Suncorp limited in its use?

It’s most likely an issue with residents. Suncorp has a lot of houses on its doorstep.

ANZ & Optus aren’t right next door to houses.

I’m sure they could get it modified for another team, but 2 extra teams would really be pushing it.

 

[supercharger]

Don’t really understand the full calendar, Optus stadium is hosting 2 afl clubs, cricket, other events and a number of concerts. Anz will host a lot more, why is Suncorp limited in its use?

Optus will host what 22 games and whatever scorchers blockbuster games maybe a test and 2 ODIs hardly the same thing dude

 

[El Diablo]

Optus will host what 22 games and whatever scorchers blockbuster games maybe a test and 2 ODIs hardly the same thing dude

he just likes to whinge

 

[jim_57]

It’s most likely an issue with residents. Suncorp has a lot of houses on its doorstep.

ANZ & Optus aren’t right next door to houses.

I’m sure they could get it modified for another team, but 2 extra teams would really be pushing it.

It could also be a Roads issue as well with a lot of major roads surrounding Suncorp being disrupted game days. Probably a combination of everything.

Without doing the maths I would guess Suncorp would have more days in use than ANZ & Optus if a 2nd NRL (or A-League) side play there full time or be very close. It would definetely have more if both of those teams come in.

Probably only the MCG would get more use, thinking outside of Australia though how many stadiums could rival those numbers of annual usage?

 

[Suitman]

I didn’t think so either, but @jim_57 lays out a pretty convincing case if Brisbane got two new footy teams.

Could Suncorp cope with 5 full time tenants?

No. Absolutely No.
I'll explain why. In my opinion anyway.
There has been multiple threads on LU lately where this argument could have been relevant. I'll just state it here.

There has been discussion about a 2nd Brisbane team. That should be a no brainer decision from the NRL's perspective for expansion. I'm not surprised that the NRL have taken so long to make this decision. They are gutless and haven't a clue. (Greenburg).
What the NRL need to do if they eventually put a second team in Brisbane is to make sure they don't just plant a plastic franchise into the city for the sake of having a 2nd team. Sort of like what the Crushers were. Who did the Crushers represent?
Nobody. They were just a second team for the city.

The A-league has provided the perfect example of what shouldn't happen in the NRL.
Melbourne Victory started off as a one city/one team league. That worked well.
Then, when the Victory in the supposedly "sporting capital", had success, the dicks at FFA just thought they'd be able to repeat that success by adding another team in a sports loving city.
So, another franchise was created. Problem is, ............. who did that new franchise represent?
That's right.......nobody. The FFA just thought fans would turn up. Because it's Melbourne.
Last night's A-League semi-final crowd proves that plastic franchise's teams do not work. Funnily enough, despite the fact they (Melb City) are back by one of the world's richest clubs.

On the other hand, when the A-League expanded into the Sydney market, it was an immediate success. Why?
Because it wasn't a plastic franchise. The new team (WSW) had a unique cultural identity.
It was west vs east.
It was lower class vs upper class.

My point is...... if the NRL want/need a second team in Brisbane, they really need to create a divide between the new team and the Broncos. They need to create a rivalry. Not just another team for Foxtel subscriptions, like Melbourne City was.
The new team would be better off playing as far away from Suncorp as possible, and hopefully in a stadium capacity of 25000 or so.

 

[herbert henry1908]

No. Absolutely No.
I'll explain why. In my opinion anyway.
There has been multiple threads on LU lately where this argument could have been relevant. I'll just state it here.

There has been discussion about a 2nd Brisbane team. That should be a no brainer decision from the NRL's perspective for expansion. I'm not surprised that the NRL have taken so long to make this decision. They are gutless and haven't a clue. (Greenburg).
What the NRL need to do if they eventually put a second team in Brisbane is to make sure they don't just plant a plastic franchise into the city for the sake of having a 2nd team. Sort of like what the Crushers were. Who did the Crushers represent?
Nobody. They were just a second team for the city.

The A-league has provided the perfect example of what shouldn't happen in the NRL.
Melbourne Victory started off as a one city/one team league. That worked well.
Then, when the Victory in the supposedly "sporting capital", had success, the dicks at FFA just thought they'd be able to repeat that success by adding another team in a sports loving city.
So, another franchise was created. Problem is, ............. who did that new franchise represent?
That's right.......nobody. The FFA just thought fans would turn up. Because it's Melbourne.
Last night's A-League semi-final crowd proves that plastic franchise's teams do not work. Funnily enough, despite the fact they (Melb City) are back by one of the world's richest clubs.

On the other hand, when the A-League expanded into the Sydney market, it was an immediate success. Why?
Because it wasn't a plastic franchise. The new team (WSW) had a unique cultural identity.
It was west vs east.
It was lower class vs upper class.

My point is...... if the NRL want/need a second team in Brisbane, they really need to create a divide between the new team and the Broncos. They need to create a rivalry. Not just another team for Foxtel subscriptions, like Melbourne City was.
The new team would be better off playing as far away from Suncorp as possible, and hopefully in a stadium capacity of 25000 or so.

I thought you were saying a second stadium won’t happen? Bit confused about your original response.


I agree with you about the need to differentiate a new team from the broncos, but that doesn’t necessarily have to be a geographical difference in where the team plays. The Adelaide & Perth AFL teams share a venue, but they still have clear seperate identities.

You could for instance create a member owned club, that would be in stark contrast to the corporate identity of the broncos. Or a western Brisbane team which is based out of the west, has a leagues club there, but still plays at Suncorp. More than one way to skin a cat.

The issue in Melbourne is much more identity than it is geography.

 

[beave]

Don’t really understand the full calendar, Optus stadium is hosting 2 afl clubs, cricket, other events and a number of concerts. Anz will host a lot more, why is Suncorp limited in its use?

Fair bit of residential shit all around Suncorp, don’t think Optus has this issue yeah?