The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Captain Apollo]

The what?!?

Hanky Head aka Peter Fitzsimmons who writes for the Sydney Morning Herald and is an ex-rugby union player.

 

[siv]

A train from Manly to anywhere is a bit of a doozy.

In general that is true though. Public transport is a much better option. But the equation still remains. If the stadium is closer to the people it’s easier for them to attend.

People don’t want to commit their whole day or night to going to the footy. Unless they are trying to raise fat little rugby props. Then they don’t need to take the kids to weekend activities/sports.

Would be good if Bradfields original train system was actually finished off

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Sorry I just went and checked this and it turns out I was wrong.

The vast majority of Sharks fans actually live in Penrith. And the vast majority of Panthers fans actually live in the Shire.

I apologise. I better rethink.

Well given there are maybe 300k people living in the North Shore compared to 5 million living all across Sydney, it seems likely that there are more fans living outside the North Shore that there are in the North Shore.

There has to be some reason why the Eagles average only 8k at Booky.

Either their fans arent turning up because the stadium is too hard to get to or they just dont have that many fans to begin with...

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So people bitch and moan that Manly fans don't travel away from the beaches yet people like you insist that Manly should relocate their games to a larger stadium. Sounds like a genius move.

Manly average 8k at brooky.

We know that they cant increase their crowds while they are their (theyve had 60 years to try). It seems like its time to try something else.

 

[Perth Red]

Manly average 8k at brooky.

We know that they cant increase their crowds while they are their (theyve had 60 years to try). It seems like its time to try something else.

yep centralised stadiums allow clubs to promote themselves to a much wider audience and potential supporter base than their traditional suburban existence. Yes they may lose 5k of locals but they should be able to pick up 10k new fans from a much greater reach. South Sydney have clearly done this by shifting from a paradigm as a Redfern club to a Sydney club.

 

[t-ba]

Manly average 8k at brooky.

We know that they cant increase their crowds while they are their (theyve had 60 years to try). It seems like its time to try something else.

Lay off the crack.

They have averaged 15k at Brookvale before, in 2006 for example, which is not particularly long ago, so it is clear it is entirely possible. These fans haven't all died, there is an engagement issue.

 

[Perth Red]

Lay off the crack.

They have averaged 15k at Brookvale before, in 2006 for example, which is not particularly long ago, so it is clear it is entirely possible. These fans haven't all died, there is an engagement issue.

they had a bit of a golden period 2006-21010 (mostly 13k) but in last 6 years they have dropped away alarmingly and consistently to between 8.5k-11k

 

[t-ba]

they had a bit of a golden period 2006-21010 (mostly 13k) but in last 6 years they have dropped away alarmingly and consistently to between 8.5k-11k

It wasn't mostly 13k, look at the stats. Also the period before 2005 was the dark ages of the club and the Super League war. Historically it is one of the best supported clubs.

Yeah, and if you bothered to look at the club you would understand why. Everything starts going to shit with certain ownership matters.

 

[Perth Red]

It wasn't mostly 13k, look at the stats. Also the period before 2005 was the dark ages of the club and the Super League war. Historically it is one of the best supported clubs.

Yeah, and if you bothered to look at the club you would understand why. Everything starts going to shit with certain ownership matters.

the consistent "golden period"
2006 14.9k
2007 14.1k
2008 14.1k
2009 13.6k
2010 13.3k
2011 13.1k
2012 13.7k
2013 13.8k

and then the decline begins
2014 12.6k
2015 10.8k
2016 10.9k
2017 11.1k
2018 8.6k

There is a clear drop off in last 5 years. I'm sure there a multiple factors why this is, the condition of Brookvale being one of them.

 

[t-ba]

the consistent "golden period"
2006 14.9k
2007 14.1k
2008 14.1k
2009 13.6k
2010 13.3k
2011 13.1k
2012 13.7k
2013 13.8k

and then the decline begins
2014 12.6k
2015 10.8k
2016 10.9k
2017 11.1k
2018 8.6k

There is a clear drop off in last 5 years. I'm sure there a multiple factors why this is, the condition of Brookvale being one of them.

Bit different to your claim 2006-10 was 'mostly' 13k, which of course was not accurate.

Maybe stop being so dishonest about Sydney clubs?

I appreciate all that death riding of Cronulla was for nought but moving on to another target is probably a recipe for you to look stupid and uninformed about the NRL again.

 

[firechild]

the consistent "golden period"
2006 14.9k
2007 14.1k
2008 14.1k
2009 13.6k
2010 13.3k
2011 13.1k
2012 13.7k
2013 13.8k

and then the decline begins
2014 12.6k
2015 10.8k
2016 10.9k
2017 11.1k
2018 8.6k

There is a clear drop off in last 5 years. I'm sure there a multiple factors why this is, the condition of Brookvale being one of them.

So the solution to the state of the ground is to make the stadium better, not move the club away from its fans. Governments have thrown money at Parra, St George, Penrith yet opposition fans berate Brookvale as if the club and fans want to play in a dilapidated stadium. Manly also played in 4 grand finals between 2007-2013. The decline from 2014 has been consistent with a team that is having less success coupled with a fanbase that is disengaged with the club. During this time, Toovey (who all Manly fans love) was discarded by the owners and the club has been run into the ground. This has nothing to do with playing in a fancy stadium but fans don't want to go to a run down stadium to support a club that they are becoming more detached with.
Don't take this as Manly fans being any less passionate about Manly. This is about our objection to those that own and run the club. The players that take the field have as much support as any that have done so before them. We just don't want to hand over our hard earned to the imbeciles that run the club.

 

[Prometheus]

Hanky Head aka Peter Fitzsimmons who writes for the Sydney Morning Herald and is an ex-rugby union player.

Ah, okay.

 

[Perth Red]

Bit different to your claim 2006-10 was 'mostly' 13k, which of course was not accurate.

Maybe stop being so dishonest about Sydney clubs?

I appreciate all that death riding of Cronulla was for nought but moving on to another target is probably a recipe for you to look stupid and uninformed about the NRL again.

My claim was right, my years were out. It was mostly in the 13k's 2009-2013. Apologies for the historic inaccuracy!As you point out even when thinsg are top notch on the pitch the club still only got less than 15k avg, if thats the pinnacle then its always goign to be a struggle when you drop to mid table or lower. Which brings us back to clubs that are isolated and can only draw from a small population base.

Over sensitive fans of clubs who have their problems pointed out is not death riding on my part. Cronulla are still a blight, just not as financially fricked as before lol.

So the solution to the state of the ground is to make the stadium better, not move the club away from its fans. Governments have thrown money at Parra, St George, Penrith yet opposition fans berate Brookvale as if the club and fans want to play in a dilapidated stadium. Manly also played in 4 grand finals between 2007-2013. The decline from 2014 has been consistent with a team that is having less success coupled with a fanbase that is disengaged with the club. During this time, Toovey (who all Manly fans love) was discarded by the owners and the club has been run into the ground. This has nothing to do with playing in a fancy stadium but fans don't want to go to a run down stadium to support a club that they are becoming more detached with.
Don't take this as Manly fans being any less passionate about Manly. This is about our objection to those that own and run the club. The players that take the field have as much support as any that have done so before them. We just don't want to hand over our hard earned to the imbeciles that run the club.

Agreed, hence why I said the drop off is multi factorial. But Brookvale is certainly a key factor and its hard to see the Govt providing the funds it requires so whats Plan B? What happend to the development around the ground idea to pay for a new stadium, was that kaboshed by the council?

 

[t-ba]

My claim was right, my years were out. It was mostly in the 13k's 2009-2013. Apologies for the historic inaccuracy! Over sensitive fans of clubs who have their problems pointed out is not death riding on my part. Cronulla are still a blight, just not as finacially fricked as befor elol.

You've been proven massively wrong about Cronulla and your shit comparing the Penn's to Jed Clampett like Tinkler indicate how little of a f**king clue you have about the Manly club or the problems it faces.

 

[El Diablo]

My claim was right, my years were out. It was mostly in the 13k's 2009-2013. Apologies for the historic inaccuracy!As you point out even when thinsg are top notch on the pitch the club still only got less than 15k avg, if thats the pinnacle then its always goign to be a struggle when you drop to mid table or lower. Which brings us back to clubs that are isolated and can only draw from a small population base.

Over sensitive fans of clubs who have their problems pointed out is not death riding on my part. Cronulla are still a blight, just not as financially fricked as before lol.



Agreed, hence why I said the drop off is multi factorial. But Brookvale is certainly a key factor and its hard to see the Govt providing the funds it requires so whats Plan B? What happend to the development around the ground idea to pay for a new stadium, was that kaboshed by the council?

 

[t-ba]

That's an insult to Anthony Stewart Head, even if he is licking glass.

 

[beave]

My solution to Brooky would be to knock that f**king piece of shit southern stand completely down. Extend the ‘newer’ SW corner stand around to then take its place. Then make a proper lower terrace to that western stand and extend it around the SW corner and along in front of the southern stand. Half the stadium would then be proper seating and the capacity would be probably closer to that nice 20k mark.

Everyone knows Brookys is in dire need of some work. Being a safe liberal seat doesn’t help matters, their only other solution is to move to the CC full time for both training and home games. Being a somewhat isolated little pocket doesn’t help matters. It was always an absolute horses ass to get to when NQ played there when I lived in Sydney during the 90’s and early 2k’s. I love going there but the facilities were pretty antiquated then, and when I went to a Manly/Storm game there in 2013, the only improvement was the extension to the western stand towards the nthn hill.

A centralised stadium policy for manly wont work. It’s a unique area and I worry for the clubs future if something isn’t done. If the NSW gov scaled back the ridiculous Moore Park stadium to be a little less upmarket, there’d be enough coin left over to the. spruce up Brooky, Leichardt, Cambpo and Penrith.

 

[t-ba]

My solution to Brooky would be to knock that f**king piece of shit southern stand completely down. Extend the ‘newer’ SW corner stand around to then take its place. Then make a proper lower terrace to that western stand and extend it around the SW corner and along in front of the southern stand. Half the stadium would then be proper seating and the capacity would be probably closer to that nice 20k mark.

Everyone knows Brookys is in dire need of some work. Being a safe liberal seat doesn’t help matters, their only other solution is to move to the CC full time for both training and home games. Being a somewhat isolated little pocket doesn’t help matters. It was always an absolute horses ass to get to when NQ played there when I lived in Sydney during the 90’s and early 2k’s. I love going there but the facilities were pretty antiquated then, and when I went to a Manly/Storm game there in 2013, the only improvement was the extension to the western stand towards the nthn hill.

A centralised stadium policy for manly wont work. It’s a unique area and I worry for the clubs future if something isn’t done. If the NSW gov scaled back the ridiculous Moore Park stadium to be a little less upmarket, there’d be enough coin left over to the. spruce up Brooky, Leichardt, Cambpo and Penrith.

The New SFS is a better choice than Gosford.

Gosford's a rubbish choice. The links to the Northern Beaches are diabolical and it's swapping an ancient shithouse for an aging stadium in an area not much larger than the Northern Beaches but with the added disadvantage of being remote from more people. People seem to also have collective amnesia over the bridges burnt during the Neagles days.

I don't know how many times I have to explain this but there are plenty of Manly fans who are like Easts fans. Multi-confessional. It's just a matter of getting the ones who have focused on the Waratahs and (increasingly) the Swans to come to a few Manly games in the same precinct. The Northern Beaches link and the Light rail should help get fans from the beaches to there smoother as well.

It's not ideal but I'd much rather keep Manly in Sydney than to wither on the vine like the Steelers. Look at how much the much larger Newcastle struggles financially.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Just some facts for you all, Manly's home crowd averages the last 10 years -

2018: 11,232;
2017: 13,493;
2016: 14,431;
2015: 10,955;
2014: 12,613;
2013: 13,522;
2012: 14,593;
2011: 15,296;
2010: 13,816; and
2009: 13,782.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

 

[El Diablo]

post their average for games at Brookvale those years