The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[The Great Dane]

It is really important to recognise that Fifa's stadium rules are more like guidelines.
The Qatar WC will only use 8 stadiums across the 32 teams;
Meanwhile the Russian WC had 2 stadiums that were barely over 30k.

As long as the bid is considered superior to/attractive over their counterparts then there will be no problem.

Only because of corruption, or is that what you meant by a bid that is considered 'superior to/attractive over their counterparts' lol.

I mean Qatar's bid promised a bunch of stadiums that both they and FIFA knew they couldn't deliver (and would be built by slave labour), but the right amount of money went into the right people's pockets so it won.

I guess the question becomes are you really willing to be a part of that, and is it in our best interests if so.

At some point, the FIFA are gonna have to give it to us as Oceania is the only region that hasn’t hosted a WC plus it’s in their charter to grow the game everywhere. It’s a matter of whether we’re still around to see it. No doubt the womens’ will be a litmus test.

The FFA are members of the AFC, and have been since 06.

In other words, giving the WC to Australia would be giving it to member of the Asian federation not Oceanian, and at least officially, Oceania still wouldn't have hosted a World Cup.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

The FFA are members of the AFC, and have been since 06.

In other words, giving the WC to Australia would be giving it to member of the Asian federation not Oceanian, and at least officially, Oceania still wouldn't have hosted a World Cup.

I figured we’d probably cohost with NZ

 

[Perth Red]

the trick would be to get Fifa to agree to 30-40k stadiums, if they can it becomes more realistic.

sfs
anz
suncorp
Aami
Bankwest

upgraded Newcastle to 35k
new canberra stadium 30k
5k temp seating at nq to 30k
perth stadium upgrade with new west stand to 30k

Christchurch 30k
Dunedin 30k
Upgrade to mount smart 35k

thats twelve stadiums for regular round games which should be enough. They could also play the qtrs and semis at afl grounds for bigger capacity. When full those oval stadiums are fine for soccer when you’ve got 60k plus soccer fans creating an atmosphere. Perth, Adelaide, Anz and mcg could all host finals with final at anz.

 

[Steel Saints]

When you look at Russia 2018, they had 15 stadiums in their bid. They ended up constructing or using 12 venues. In the women's world cup bid, Aust-NZ put forward 13 stadiums in their bid book. A couple of months ago, FIFA announced that 10 stadiums will be used, 6 in Australia, 4 in NZ.

So in the actual bid, if successful, not every stadium needs to be built. Aust-NZ could have as many as 15 or 16 in the bid. And if successful, it could be whittled down to 12.

And of course, once the event is over, there is the option of reducing a few of the stadiums capacity from 40000 to 30000. Although, you want Melbourne to have a 40000 rectangular stadium. They are the so called "Sporting capital of the world". As far as ovals are concerned, you can't have more than 2 or 3. If you have 5 or 6 ovals in the bid, then you start to lose the legacy argument where football is not benefitting.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

To FIFA, an oval is a pitch with an athletic track around it. The problem with cricket ovals like the MCG is, it’s that - and then some. I don’t think it will help our pitch if it‘s included in the bid without drastic modification which is highly unlikely. We might get away with Optus as it’s a genuine oval and not a circular pitch.

@Perth Red, what’s a second stadium option in Perth or Freeo?

I believe the final must hold around 60/70k so ANZ (with hopefully long desired refurb) will do the job there. I thought and I could be wrong, that only two venues, per city are permitted which makes Sydney the only WC-ready city given Allianz isn’t far away. Maybe we can get away with Newcastle being a host?

The bear minimum you’d think, would be 40k capacity stadiums and given FIFA‘s legacy requirements, we’ll only get away with temporary seating at maybe one of each of the two stadiums per city and which of those existing have the capacity to allow such increases? Also, I reckon the committee would look down on our bid if we don’t have two world class rectangular stadiums in our second largest city but we’ll probably end up with one new stadium and an increased capacity (if possible) AAMI Park.

Suncorp will get an overdue refurb plus an increased capacity Country Bank if it’s even possible to do. I have no idea what’s possible in Adelaide and I’m sure our brothers in NZ will have more of an idea of what opportunities lie at their end.

Given the current economic climate however, FIFA might be happy with more modest bids like the IOC have shown to be.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I agree that we should probably not bother, but perhaps you should let the FFA know about the MCG. It must be why we missed out last time as, from the bid... due to the quality of the stadium, and the stadium's capacity, it is already in FIFA standards, and was proposed to host the opening match for the tournament, in addition to group stage, round of 16, quarterfinal, semifinal and the final.

Yes the disaster that was our previous World Cup bid which totalled a single vote and finished in last place. The bid itself was a disgrace and embarrassment. I'm not sure where you got that information from as I'm pretty sure the final was always going to be in Sydney at a 90K ANZ. It was pie in the sky either way, just as this one will be if we submit a single cricket oval.

As corrupt as FIFA is the guidelines on dimensions of the stands in relation to the pitch are very strict and they will not bend those rules for anyone. Not for a World Cup. The MCG doesn't even come close to matching that criteria, even ANZ is barely acceptable.

So we currently have ANZ, SFS and Suncorp as acceptable stadiums. We could upgrade Newcastle, Townsville and Gold Coast pretty easily. But we'd need brand new stadiums of 35K plus in Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide and Canberra to make it happen.

I'd love us to host the World Cup but unfortunately half the country has no interest in building the infrastructure required.

 

[Perth Red]

@Perth Red, what’s a second stadium option in Perth or Freeo?

hbf park is currently 21,,500. It’s got a great east stand and new south stand. an upgrade by replacing the west stand with mostly corporates and around 8000 seats plus doing something with shed end, either proper terracing across full width (which would be awsome) or replacing the shed with a new seated stand would see it up to 30-35k. The south stand was designed to take a roof in the future so would be nice to see that happen as part of next phase of upgrades. Probably needs around $80-100mill. This photo is taken from the south stand.
It’s got good public transport links and just a shortish walk from the main bar and restaurant city precinct. would be a great outcome for a future perth nrl club to see us get a WC and hbf park get upgraded.

they’ve played some EPL club games at Optus and apparently was great. It’s such an impressive stadium the facilities and vibe of the place makes up for the poor viewing distance IMO.

 

[Timbo]

Perth has the ability to bump in seats making it more rectangular. And Marvel has retractable seating as well.

If we really wanted to, the only true oval we’d have to use is Adelaide.

 

[SLRBRONCOS]

Both the Maracana and Berlin Olympic Stadium are ovals, if the stadium is grand enough, they aren’t too worried about the shape IMO.

Edit: looking back most of the stadiums that have held the finals have been oval or oval like. Rose Bowl, Yokohama International Stadium, Stade de France and Stadio Olympico.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

hbf park is currently 21,,500. It’s got a great east stand and new south stand. an upgrade by replacing the west stand with mostly corporates and around 8000 seats plus doing something with shed end, either proper terracing across full width (which would be awsome) or replacing the shed with a new seated stand would see it up to 30-35k. The south stand was designed to take a roof in the future so would be nice to see that happen as part of next phase of upgrades. Probably needs around $80-100mill. This photo is taken from the south stand.
It’s got good public transport links and just a shortish walk from the main bar and restaurant city precinct. would be a great outcome for a future perth nrl club to see us get a WC and hbf park get upgraded.

they’ve played some EPL club games at Optus and apparently was great. It’s such an impressive stadium the facilities and vibe of the place makes up for the poor viewing distance IMO.

View attachment 52228

Hopefully any expansion club in Perth comes with the condition that the WA government completes the redevelopment of the stadium. Been a decade since doing that half hasn't it?

They're set in terms of the location and the travel links to ground, right in the city instead of suburban areas where countless RL grounds are or have been

 

[Perth Red]

Hopefully any expansion club in Perth comes with the condition that the WA government completes the redevelopment of the stadium. Been a decade since doing that half hasn't it?

They're set in terms of the location and the travel links to ground, right in the city instead of suburban areas where countless RL grounds are or have been

Nearly, 2013 was when upgrade was done, but was on the assumption there would be an nrl team using it alongside the other tenants. Can’t see any more done to it unless there is a world cup or nrl does a Uturn and looks to perth for the 18th club.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

When you look at Russia 2018, they had 15 stadiums in their bid. They ended up constructing or using 12 venues. In the women's world cup bid, Aust-NZ put forward 13 stadiums in their bid book. A couple of months ago, FIFA announced that 10 stadiums will be used, 6 in Australia, 4 in NZ.

So in the actual bid, if successful, not every stadium needs to be built. Aust-NZ could have as many as 15 or 16 in the bid. And if successful, it could be whittled down to 12.

And of course, once the event is over, there is the option of reducing a few of the stadiums capacity from 40000 to 30000. Although, you want Melbourne to have a 40000 rectangular stadium. They are the so called "Sporting capital of the world". As far as ovals are concerned, you can't have more than 2 or 3. If you have 5 or 6 ovals in the bid, then you start to lose the legacy argument where football is not benefitting.

Your’re on to something there SS

https://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/documents/World_Stadium_Index_4_FIFA_WC.pdf

For future World Cups, the number of venues is also about the same. FIFA advised applicants for the World Cup in 2018 and 2022 that 16-18 venues should be presented in each application, venues which, in a reasonable manner, should be spread all over the country. Of these 16-18 stadiums FIFA would then choose 12 stadiums. The majority of the stadiums used for the 2018 World Cup in Russia and 2022 in Qatar will be newly built. Brazil anticipates six new stadiums and major renovations to four others for its World Cup in 2014.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Both the Maracana and Berlin Olympic Stadium are ovals, if the stadium is grand enough, they aren’t too worried about the shape IMO.

Edit: looking back most of the stadiums that have held the finals have been oval or oval like. Rose Bowl, Yokohama International Stadium, Stade de France and Stadio Olympico.

There is nothing wrong with ovals, that has never been the issue. There is a huge difference between an oval and a CRICKET oval. The issue is how far the seats are from the centre of the pitch. That is what FIFA judge on.

To give you an idea, all of those stadiums you mentioned would fit almost entirely (grandstands and all) inside the playing area of the MCG.

We need to stop thinking that we can get away with submitting these stadiums if we are serious.

 

[Jamberoo]

Your’re on to something there SS

https://www.playthegame.org/fileadmin/documents/World_Stadium_Index_4_FIFA_WC.pdf

For future World Cups, the number of venues is also about the same. FIFA advised applicants for the World Cup in 2018 and 2022 that 16-18 venues should be presented in each application, venues which, in a reasonable manner, should be spread all over the country. Of these 16-18 stadiums FIFA would then choose 12 stadiums. The majority of the stadiums used for the 2018 World Cup in Russia and 2022 in Qatar will be newly built. Brazil anticipates six new stadiums and major renovations to four others for its World Cup in 2014.

That is outdated. WC now 48 teams. More games, so 16 stadiums required. So we would need to propose 20 - 24 x 40k stadiums. We simply could not put up that many possible stadiums in a bid, even with NZ (four max) without including MCG, Adelaide Oval, Geelong & Perth even though they are oval. They are four of the best stadiums we have. None of Vic, WA or Sa is going to build a 40k stadium just for three games. The legacy would be in Brisbane (Suncorp upgrade or rebuild) and Sydney (ANZ rebuild), and Canberra (new stadium). There is no need anywhere else in Australia for a 40k rectangular stadium.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

That is outdated. WC now 48 teams. More games, so 16 stadiums required. So we would need to propose 20 - 24 x 40k stadiums. We simply could not put up that many possible stadiums in a bid, even with NZ (four max) without including MCG, Adelaide Oval, Geelong & Perth even though they are oval. They are four of the best stadiums we have. None of Vic, WA or Sa is going to build a 40k stadium just for three games. The legacy would be in Brisbane (Suncorp upgrade or rebuild) and Sydney (ANZ rebuild), and Canberra (new stadium). There is no need anywhere else in Australia for a 40k rectangular stadium.

Indeed it does appear to be outdated. The Poms are thinking around 16 will be enough.

The ideal 16 stadiums to be used in the UK/Ireland 2030 World Cup bid - Planet Football

As talk of a UK & Ireland bid for the 2030 World Cup circulates, we've taken a look at what stadiums might be used should the tournament be held in the British Isles.

www.planetfootball.com

The tournament will contain 48 teams by 2030, meaning around 16 venues would be needed. But FIFA have a strict set of criteria in place for World Cup stadiums.

They must be able to hold a minimum of 40,000 spectators (although a few venues at Russia 2018 fell below this). This increases to 60,000 for the semi-finals and 80,000 for the World Cup Final itself.

I have no problems with ovals such as Optus but including the MCG would mean fans are seated too far from the pitch which FIFA won’t look kindly upon. The ground does have prestige and historical value so who knows. Also if we build 40k stadia in just two states then we may as well not bother bidding. The point of FIFA’s legacy requirements is to build the game across the whole host nation/s. The stadia built in the AFL states can be reduced to 30k post tournament if need be. They’ll have a use beyond the WC as the FFA will be looking to expand the A League on momentum built post tournament plus it could even be a catalyst for NRL expansion.

Final with 80k requirement - ANZ with refurb.
Semis with 60k requirement - Optus ready to go. Suncorp with reno. MCG if FIFA approved. Is there an appetite to build a 60k seater in NZ? It seems more daunting the more I think about it.

 

[Perth Red]

Indeed it does appear to be outdated. The Poms are thinking around 16 will be enough.

The ideal 16 stadiums to be used in the UK/Ireland 2030 World Cup bid - Planet Football

As talk of a UK & Ireland bid for the 2030 World Cup circulates, we've taken a look at what stadiums might be used should the tournament be held in the British Isles.

www.planetfootball.com

The tournament will contain 48 teams by 2030, meaning around 16 venues would be needed. But FIFA have a strict set of criteria in place for World Cup stadiums.

They must be able to hold a minimum of 40,000 spectators (although a few venues at Russia 2018 fell below this). This increases to 60,000 for the semi-finals and 80,000 for the World Cup Final itself.

I have no problems with ovals such as Optus but including the MCG would mean fans are seated too far from the pitch which FIFA won’t look kindly upon. The ground does have prestige and historical value so who knows. Also if we build 40k stadia in just two states then we may as well not bother bidding. The point of FIFA’s legacy requirements is to build the game across the whole host nation/s. The stadia built in the AFL states can be reduced to 30k post tournament if need be. They’ll have a use beyond the WC as the FFA will be looking to expand the A League on momentum built post tournament plus it could even be a catalyst for NRL expansion.

Final with 80k requirement - ANZ with refurb.
Semis with 60k requirement - Optus ready to go. Suncorp with reno. MCG if FIFA approved. Is there an appetite to build a 60k seater in NZ? It seems more daunting the more I think about it.

The prospect having 100k at mcg could be a softener to the fact it’s oval. That’s a lot of extra revenue and the atmosphere would be insane full of soccer fans.

optus and mcg for semis, both over 60k
anz for final
the bigger problem is the 40k for the other stadiums. There isn’t anywhere near enough and won’t be built so fifa would have to accept 30k - 40k stadiums which is probably the bigger issue. If they did then it’s very acehivable with just one new stadium in canberra and a few upgrades at perth, Newcastle etc. maybe incentive to get the Liverpool stadium built but with three suitable stadiums in sydney already it’s probably not needed.

bankwest
sfs
newcastle
suncorp
nq
dunedin
christchurch
mt smart
marvel

all at 30k plus or could get there without massive expenditure. plus the other 3 is 12. Still a fair way of what’s needed.
Probably just need to accept that australia and nz isn’t big enough to host a World Cup Tbf.

 

[jim_57]

Getting the World Cup could benefit RL in a lot of ways but it could also create some problems as well if not carefully planned.

Upgrades &/or new builds for ANZ, Suncorp, Newcastle & Canberra would be the likely positives that spring to mind.

On the other hand we could end up with stadiums too large for club games if the 40k criteria stadiums aren’t built with a downsize in the plans or an intimate mode. Melbourne & perhaps Newcastle it probably wouldn’t hurt to keep the 40k but places like Gold Coast, Townsville, Canberra, Wellington & Christchurch won’t need a 40k stadium any time soon.


Hypothetical 16 stadium bid trying to avoid ovals as best as possible:

Brisbane - 60k Suncorp upgrade with intimate mode.
Gold Coast - 40k Robina upgrade, downsized to 30-35k or intimate mode.
Newcastle - 40k upgrade.
Sydney - SFS.
Sydney - 80k Redeveloped ANZ.
Penrith - 40k Redeveloped, downsized to 25-30k.
Canberra - 40k new stadium, downsized to 30k.
Melbourne - 40-50k AAMI Park with intimate mode.
Melbourne - MCG (If an exception can be made)
Adelaide - New 40k Rectangular Stadium, downsized to 25k.
Perth - Optus Stadium
Perth - 40k Updgrade to HBF, downsized to 25-30k.

Auckland - 60k Rebuild Eden Park or New Stadium.
Auckland - 40k upgrade Mt Smart, Downsized to 25-30k.
Wellington - 40k Rebuild or New Stadium, downsized or intimate mode.
Christchurch - 40k Upgrade, downsized or intimate mode.

Some of those are getting pretty far-fetched, going to have to be a hell of a lot of money pumped in to it even if there is some compromising on using heaps of ovals.

 

[clarency]

Suncorp doesn't need an increase in capacity... just a facilities upgrade and it is good to go.
Gold Coast have a nice stadium but doesn't lend itself to major upgrades. Can't see it getting in.
Newcastle would be certain to get an upgrade and post event downgrade.
Sydney would get ANZ and SFS and that would be it.
Canberra should get their new stadium in Civic which they've been screaming for, for decades.
Aami Park. Lol. This one. I remember during construction they declared "30k with a potential upgrade to 50k+ in the future!". Then once construction was complete they quietly announced that removing that bubble wrap decor will cost 150mil+. Gotta love developers.
Either a deal needs to be made with the AFL for Docklands (which converts nicely to rectangle), or MCG gets pushed forward through gritted teeth.

Both Perth and Adelaide need new stadiums/upgraded stadiums. No oval BS for them, and if they don't want to play then leave them out. They said Optus would have retractable seating and then they took it out. F8ck em.

There is no 2 ways about it... new stadiums need to be built for this event. IF we get accepted... which we are highly unlikely to.

 

[TheRam]

What about this for Auckland NZ
Pity this one seems to have been scraped again.




But maybe this one might see the light of day.

An unseen, magical downtown stadium for Auckland

WATCH: Newsroom has obtained a video and images of a spectacular stadium that was mooted for the downtown Auckland railways land, the favoured site in a previously secret report to the Mayor

www.newsroom.co.nz

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Suncorp doesn't need an increase in capacity... just a facilities upgrade and it is good to go.
Gold Coast have a nice stadium but doesn't lend itself to major upgrades. Can't see it getting in.
Newcastle would be certain to get an upgrade and post event downgrade.
Sydney would get ANZ and SFS and that would be it.
Canberra should get their new stadium in Civic which they've been screaming for, for decades.
Aami Park. Lol. This one. I remember during construction they declared "30k with a potential upgrade to 50k+ in the future!". Then once construction was complete they quietly announced that removing that bubble wrap decor will cost 150mil+. Gotta love developers.
Either a deal needs to be made with the AFL for Docklands (which converts nicely to rectangle), or MCG gets pushed forward through gritted teeth.

Both Perth and Adelaide need new stadiums/upgraded stadiums. No oval BS for them, and if they don't want to play then leave them out. They said Optus would have retractable seating and then they took it out. F8ck em.

There is no 2 ways about it... new stadiums need to be built for this event. IF we get accepted... which we are highly unlikely to.

The only contribution we’ll get from the AFL would be to sobotage the bid.