The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

Just some facts for you all, Manly's home crowd averages the last 10 years -

2018: 11,232;
2017: 13,493;
2016: 14,431;
2015: 10,955;
2014: 12,613;
2013: 13,522;
2012: 14,593;
2011: 15,296;
2010: 13,816; and
2009: 13,782.

Source: https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

That's not Manlys games at Brookvale avg crowds. This is

2009 13.6k
2010 13.3k
2011 13.1k
2012 13.7k
2013 13.8k
2014 12.6k
2015 10.8k
2016 10.9k
2017 11.1k
2018 8.6k

 

[siv]

The New SFS is a better choice than Gosford.

Gosford's a rubbish choice. The links to the Northern Beaches are diabolical and it's swapping an ancient shithouse for an aging stadium in an area not much larger than the Northern Beaches but with the added disadvantage of being remote from more people. People seem to also have collective amnesia over the bridges burnt during the Neagles days.

I don't know how many times I have to explain this but there are plenty of Manly fans who are like Easts fans. Multi-confessional. It's just a matter of getting the ones who have focused on the Waratahs and (increasingly) the Swans to come to a few Manly games in the same precinct. The Northern Beaches link and the Light rail should help get fans from the beaches to there smoother as well.

It's not ideal but I'd much rather keep Manly in Sydney than to wither on the vine like the Steelers. Look at how much the much larger Newcastle struggles financially.

Gee dont you like the direct Ferry service to Patonga

Dont worry about the 35 min trip from Brookvale

Or the 50 min bus trip to Gosford

Even more fun in high seas

But you will have to swim back from a night game as ferries stop at dusk

 

[herbert henry1908]

So the solution to the state of the ground is to make the stadium better, not move the club away from its fans. Governments have thrown money at Parra, St George, Penrith yet opposition fans berate Brookvale as if the club and fans want to play in a dilapidated stadium. Manly also played in 4 grand finals between 2007-2013. The decline from 2014 has been consistent with a team that is having less success coupled with a fanbase that is disengaged with the club. During this time, Toovey (who all Manly fans love) was discarded by the owners and the club has been run into the ground. This has nothing to do with playing in a fancy stadium but fans don't want to go to a run down stadium to support a club that they are becoming more detached with.
Don't take this as Manly fans being any less passionate about Manly. This is about our objection to those that own and run the club. The players that take the field have as much support as any that have done so before them. We just don't want to hand over our hard earned to the imbeciles that run the club.

Brookvale needs to be improved if it’s going to be used long term as an NRL ground, but it can’t be an open ended timeline. NRL should step in on a deadline. It might actually be the only way to get this done anyway, could sharpen the focus of politicians.

 

[Saint Doc]

Brookvale needs to be improved if it’s going to be used long term as an NRL ground, but it can’t be an open ended timeline. NRL should step in on a deadline. It might actually be the only way to get this done anyway, could sharpen the focus of politicians.

In the current climate, NRL would see ANZ and SFS as their priorities.

You wouldn’t even mention Brookvale while the chance of ANZ being abandoned remains

 

[Perth Red]

In the current climate, NRL would see ANZ and SFS as their priorities.

You wouldn’t even mention Brookvale while the chance of ANZ being abandoned remains

And yet the need for anz isn’t that great for nrl really, especially if clubs abandon it to play at wss and new allianz.

 

[herbert henry1908]

In the current climate, NRL would see ANZ and SFS as their priorities.

You wouldn’t even mention Brookvale while the chance of ANZ being abandoned remains

Sure, you could wait a year until the refurbishment goes ahead at ANZ.

But the NRL themselves wouldn’t necessarily be leading the charge for funds, they give the deadline to Manly, and Manly do the best they can.

 

[Perth Red]

Sure, you could wait a year until the refurbishment goes ahead at ANZ.

But the NRL themselves wouldn’t necessarily be leading the charge for funds, they give the deadline to Manly, and Manly do the best they can.

Nrl has to have skin in the game on this if it wants to sustain the Sydney current club spread. A southern stadium for sharks and dragons should be a priority alongside support for manly and Penrith for major upgrades or rebuilds. Hard thing is Govt is highly unlikely to throw any money at it given the stadium spend and media beat up around it. C’wealth Govt might be best hope but sco mo will be gone next year.

 

[herbert henry1908]

And yet the need for anz isn’t that great for nrl really, especially if clubs abandon it to play at wss and new allianz.

It wouldn’t be completely crazy for the NRL to get the govt to abandon the ANZ plans & instead use some of that $800m on Cronulla, Brookvale & Penrith.

Reorganise the campaign for ANZ to be rebuilt in 10 years time and have it done properly.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Nrl has to have skin in the game on this if it wants to sustain the Sydney current club spread. A southern stadium for sharks and dragons should be a priority alongside support for manly and Penrith for major upgrades or rebuilds. Hard thing is Govt is highly unlikely to throw any money at it given the stadium spend and media beat up around it. C’wealth Govt might be best hope but sco mo will be gone next year.

Local grounds would be an easier sell because they’re clearly in disrepair. Plus you could spread the announcements of the stadiums.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Here’s what I’d do for Brookvale to keep costs down,

2 x 7000 seat covered stands on each side. Eastern stand would be completely barebones, just toilets below. Western stand would add some corporate boxes.

Each end of the ground would be two big hills with all the catering for game days. I’d bring in the food stalls, craft beer stalls etc. No permanent catering facilities other than a small kitchen for the boxes.

You’d have a 20,000 capacity venue with a good 12-14k seats undercover.

I’d say this is the best you could get, and even it would be a long shot.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Local grounds would be an easier sell because they’re clearly in disrepair. Plus you could spread the announcements of the stadiums.

Not to this NSW Government. Their view is "the local councils own those grounds, not us, so they can maintain them we won't do the job for them". Stuart Ayres can be rather willful that way.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So the solution to the state of the ground is to make the stadium better, not move the club away from its fans. Governments have thrown money at Parra, St George, Penrith yet opposition fans berate Brookvale as if the club and fans want to play in a dilapidated stadium. Manly also played in 4 grand finals between 2007-2013. The decline from 2014 has been consistent with a team that is having less success coupled with a fanbase that is disengaged with the club. During this time, Toovey (who all Manly fans love) was discarded by the owners and the club has been run into the ground. This has nothing to do with playing in a fancy stadium but fans don't want to go to a run down stadium to support a club that they are becoming more detached with.
Don't take this as Manly fans being any less passionate about Manly. This is about our objection to those that own and run the club. The players that take the field have as much support as any that have done so before them. We just don't want to hand over our hard earned to the imbeciles that run the club.

Where does the money come from?

And in the likely event that you dont get any money (so the choice is dilapidated stadium or move), which is better?

 

[insert.pause]

Just get rid of Manly.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Lay off the crack.

They have averaged 15k at Brookvale before, in 2006 for example, which is not particularly long ago, so it is clear it is entirely possible. These fans haven't all died, there is an engagement issue.

This is my point...

You need to go back 12 years for a "great" crowd and the best you can come up with is a 15k average? That is shit by most standards, but Brooky is so bad, you have only even reached that 3 times in 60 years.

NRL teams should be aiming higher than 15k, not imagining that as the pinnacle of achievement...

 

[insert.pause]

just burn down the grandstand and blame Trent Barrett.

 

[firechild]

Where does the money come from?

And in the likely event that you dont get any money (so the choice is dilapidated stadium or move), which is better?

Dilapidated stadium. The NRL have already made it clear they don't give a f**k about the next generation of fans. Forcing families to travel to the other side of the city for Thursday/Friday night games after people are finishing work or leaving Moore Park at 9:30-10pm on a Saturday night for the drive back to Narrabeen or wherever they're from is a joke.
Sure, there will be people who work in the city and this would suit them, but getting home, picking up the wife and kids then heading back across the city simply will not (and can not) happen.

 

[firechild]

just burn down the grandstand and blame Trent Barrett.

Can we burn down Trent Barrett and blame the facilities?

 

[greenBV4]

just burn down the grandstand and blame Trent Barrett.

if someone were to "accidentally" burn it down, where would Manly play?

 

[insert.pause]

if someone were to "accidentally" burn it down, where would Manly play?

hopefully nowhere

 

[t-ba]

This is my point...

You need to go back 12 years for a "great" crowd and the best you can come up with is a 15k average? That is shit by most standards, but Brooky is so bad, you have only even reached that 3 times in 60 years.

NRL teams should be aiming higher than 15k, not imagining that as the pinnacle of achievement...

Perhaps you shouldn't say shit like Manly can only average 8k after 60 years. It's an outlier. Souths and the Roosters both pulled 10k in 2016 to their games in shiny modern facilities at a time when their ownership wasn't completely alienated from the fan base but no one blathered on about after 100 years that was the best they could do.

Why is 15k terrible? 15k is about 75% full game on game which is a great look for the game. Money is primarily derived from broadcasting revenue these days. Better to have a packed house in a suburban venue than a half empty modern stadium. Looks better on TV and generates better atmosphere.

Crowds aren't improving in any sport in this country these days, and they've lost their importance as a revenue generator, in a sport in a city that hasn't really relied on them since the Pokie Palace popped up. The pokie palace might be dead but Broadcast cash certainly isn't.