Future NRL Stadiums

[Rodney]

A Bigger Allianz also provides a bargaining chip for League to twist ANZ's arm.
ANZ isn't going to go rectangular unless we threaten to take games away.

If the wedge is played right the government or NRL may not even have to invest anything into changing ANZ and the investors might pick up the slack realizing they're in danger or loosing their cash cow.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

A Bigger Allianz also provides a bargaining chip for League to twist ANZ's arm.
ANZ isn't going to go rectangular unless we threaten to take games away.

If the wedge is played right the government or NRL may not even have to invest anything into changing ANZ and the investors might pick up the slack realizing they're in danger or loosing their cash cow.

How is it a bargaining chip if the government have to pay ANZ Stadium compensation (under their contract) for an increase to the capacity of Allianz before 2030 (I think)?

ANZ will simply make the Government cough up the funds, sign certain clubs to good tenancy deals and they're laughing. The NRL still needs ANZ for the GF and origin even if Allianz gets to 65,000. Do we really want 20,000 fans locked out of these major sell-out events?

 

[morley101]

Parramatta stadium upgrade progress information.

http://pirtekstadium.com/news-article/pirtek-stadium-upgrade

 

[Perth Red]

A rectangular ANZ is little better than what we've got now. the seat pitchis too shallow and the place is too big. Short of a roof that lowers down to cover half the stands it will always remain a soulless desolate place to play club NRL.

 

[Dogs Of War]

A rectangular ANZ is little better than what we've got now. the seat pitchis too shallow and the place is too big. Short of a roof that lowers down to cover half the stands it will always remain a soulless desolate place to play club NRL.

Have to agree. With the amount of money they are talking about putting in, could it be cheaper in the long run to just rip it down and build it better?

 

[The Elephant In The room]

A rectangular ANZ is little better than what we've got now. the seat pitchis too shallow and the place is too big. Short of a roof that lowers down to cover half the stands it will always remain a soulless desolate place to play club NRL.

I'd doubt 15,000 in a 65,000 'rebuilt" Allianz (as some are suggesting) would be much better though.

Get decent crowds to our games and the atmosphere will take care of itself.

 

[Rodney]

How is it a bargaining chip if the government have to pay ANZ Stadium compensation (under their contract) for an increase to the capacity of Allianz before 2030 (I think)?

ANZ will simply make the Government cough up the funds, sign certain clubs to good tenancy deals and they're laughing. The NRL still needs ANZ for the GF and origin even if Allianz gets to 65,000. Do we really want 20,000 fans locked out of these major sell-out events?

i'm not sure about the details of the compensation.
But it can't be too big an obstacle if the 65k City is still being discussed.

SOO and GF are just two games.
Socceroos friendlies could play in a 65k stadium, Wallabies fixtures, NRL prelim finals.
Souths, Tigers, Dragons could all be wooed to a different stadium.

There are definately some chips to bargain with.

ANZ is never going to be obsolete, its the most convenient stadium for the Bulldogs at least.
But the owners have shown they aren't willing to change unless pushed.

They have no regular oval ground tennants from 2016 but are still pandering to them in their plans to do everything but rectangularize the stadium.
And if the stadium isn't going to budge to cater for its largest customer the NRL should be not feel inclined to patronize it.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

i'm not sure about the details of the compensation.
But it can't be too big an obstacle if the 65k City is still being discussed.

SOO and GF are just two games.
Socceroos friendlies could play in a 65k stadium, Wallabies fixtures, NRL prelim finals.
Souths, Tigers, Dragons could all be wooed to a different stadium.

There are definately some chips to bargain with.

ANZ is never going to be obsolete, its the most convenient stadium for the Bulldogs at least.
But the owners have shown they aren't willing to change unless pushed.

They have no regular oval ground tennants from 2016 but are still pandering to them in their plans to do everything but rectangularize the stadium.
And if the stadium isn't going to budge to cater for its largest customer the NRL should be not feel inclined to patronize it.

But why would they spend the cash to do it? A rectangular ANZ wouldn't win them a single extra game/tenant. Not doing it doesn't lose them a single game/tenant (but does keep them a couple of games of cricket a year).

Put it this way, if you owned a cafe, would you do a massive expensive fit out if you knew you'd only ever still have the exact same old customers, generating the same amount of revenue?

 

[pHyR3]

But why would they spend the cash to do it? A rectangular ANZ wouldn't win them a single extra game/tenant. Not doing it doesn't lose them a single game/tenant (but does keep them a couple of games of cricket a year).

Put it this way, if you owned a cafe, would you do a massive expensive fit out if you knew you'd only ever still have the exact same old customers, generating the same amount of revenue?

but it will hopefully bring in more people PER game if it's roofed and rectangular.

in any case, the gvmts funding most of it.

 

[Timbo]

Losing the cricket is a big deal for ANZ, I know they like to be able to illustrate to their members that there are events all year.

 

[Perth Red]

Build Allianz to 65k and ANZ becomes even more un necessary. They would be better pulling it down and building a modern design 35k stadium for the western clubs.

re crowds it is much easier to build 15k to regular 30k crowds than it is thinking you are ever going to get regular 50k crowds to NRL Sydney games. Allianz can deal with the rare 50k plus need, a brilliant 35k club stadium for the bread and butter games.

If the ANZ and Allianz upgrades push through now you are going to be stuck with no decent shared club ground for NRL for the next 50 years.

 

[alien]

Build Allianz to 65k and ANZ becomes even more un necessary. They would be better pulling it down and building a modern design 35k stadium for the western clubs.

or just leave stadium australia to do what they wish with the stadium and build a new 35k western sydney stadium around liverpool/badgery's creek

 

[Rodney]

But why would they spend the cash to do it? A rectangular ANZ wouldn't win them a single extra game/tenant. Not doing it doesn't lose them a single game/tenant (but does keep them a couple of games of cricket a year).

Put it this way, if you owned a cafe, would you do a massive expensive fit out if you knew you'd only ever still have the exact same old customers, generating the same amount of revenue?

To prevent the existing customers leaving.
IF (this is the massive contingent here) the 65k stadium goes ahead in the city they have a considerably higher lever of competition for games.

There are a lot of teams that use ANZ which could play out of another stadium.
In multiple sports too.

ANZ currently stands as the only stadium capable of holding 'event' games, but a Upgraded Allianz would be able to host all but 2 (at worst 4) of them.

Converting to rectangular structure looses the Thunder (who have been in an out of the showgrounds anyway) and the occasional international t-20.

It's unquestionably a loss to lose these games, but the main cash cow for the stadium is Rugby League.
We could effectively match it if Souths decided to up and move.

The code itself could put in a massive incentive by having multiple teams drop their partial affiliation with the ground and spreading Sydney finals games.

We also have to consider Frank Lowy and the FFA have been lobbying for the Allianz Upgrade, and Rugby Union surely would explore its options for Bledisloe Games is Allianz was expanded.

If you get these bodies working together suddenly the potential losses are huge.

also its not allianz which can't be upgraded:
from the DT:
The key is Parramatta. If the government agrees to significantly increase its capacity, the ANZ operators could demand the government pay out the remaining 17 years on their lease and run the stadium itself.

It has leverage to force this outcome under an agreement signed in 1996 with the government before the stadium was built. It compels the government to ?negotiate in good faith? with ANZ to ensure there is no ?material adverse effect? if the government lifts the capacity above 25,000 of any stadium within 50km of Homebush.

Allianz is already above 25k, so this doesn't apply at all.

 

[alien]

To prevent the existing customers leaving.
IF (this is the massive contingent here) the 65k stadium goes ahead in the city they have a considerably higher lever of competition for games.

There are a lot of teams that use ANZ which could play out of another stadium.
In multiple sports too.

ANZ currently stands as the only stadium capable of holding 'event' games, but a Upgraded Allianz would be able to host all but 2 (at worst 4) of them.

Converting to rectangular structure looses the Thunder (who have been in an out of the showgrounds anyway) and the occasional international t-20.

It's unquestionably a loss to lose these games, but the main cash cow for the stadium is Rugby League.
We could effectively match it if Souths decided to up and move.

The code itself could put in a massive incentive by having multiple teams drop their partial affiliation with the ground and spreading Sydney finals games.

We also have to consider Frank Lowy and the FFA have been lobbying for the Allianz Upgrade, and Rugby Union surely would explore its options for Bledisloe Games is Allianz was expanded.

If you get these bodies working together suddenly the potential losses are huge.

also its not allianz which can't be upgraded:
from the DT:
The key is Parramatta. If the government agrees to significantly increase its capacity, the ANZ operators could demand the government pay out the remaining 17 years on their lease and run the stadium itself.

It has leverage to force this outcome under an agreement signed in 1996 with the government before the stadium was built. It compels the government to ?negotiate in good faith? with ANZ to ensure there is no ?material adverse effect? if the government lifts the capacity above 25,000 of any stadium within 50km of Homebush.

Allianz is already above 25k, so this doesn't apply at all.

i thought the agreement was that no stadium would be upgraded higher than 50k

 

[Rodney]

i thought the agreement was that no stadium would be upgraded higher than 50k

nah
i'm pretty sure its 25k capacity within 50km of homebush

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

But why would they spend the cash to do it? A rectangular ANZ wouldn't win them a single extra game/tenant. Not doing it doesn't lose them a single game/tenant (but does keep them a couple of games of cricket a year).

Put it this way, if you owned a cafe, would you do a massive expensive fit out if you knew you'd only ever still have the exact same old customers, generating the same amount of revenue?

You dont think its possible for the NRL to threaten to leave simply to f*ck over a group that they know should be treating them better??

They were in this exact situation during the last TV deal negotiation and were apparently willing to go entirely to FTA networks just because they felt FOX owed them more. The ARLC was happy to take a short term loss because they knew they were so vital to FOX subscriptions (maintaining current subscriptions is inarguably more important that looking for new ones).

It wouldnt be that hard for the ARLC to organise at least a partial club-boycott of ANZ stadium to push for a rectangle stadium.

 

[alien]

nah
i'm pretty sure its 25k capacity within 50km of homebush

"However, NSW government legislation would need to change for the SFS to expand, according to a 1996 agreement which prevents any stadium in the Sydney basin from exceeding a capacity of 48,000.

When Stadium Australia - now ANZ Stadium - was built, investors were protected by a 35-year agreement prohibiting any stadium exceeding this capacity, while also preventing the SFS and SCG from substantially increasing their corporate-hospitality facilities."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/anz-stadium-faces-tough-competition-20100629-zj7t.html#ixzz3SZPK9rJd

 

[alien]

so if the limit is 48k, then a new stadium with a capacity of 48k could be built in sydney's west. perfect size!

if it was at badgerry's creek you could have 4 clubs playing home games there: penrith, wests, parra, canterbury. who knows, even souths might play some games there since they have alot of fans out west

 

[Rodney]

so if the limit is 48k, then a new stadium with a capacity of 48k could be built in sydney's west. perfect size!

if it was at badgerry's creek you could have 4 clubs playing home games there: penrith, wests, parra, canterbury. who knows, even souths might play some games there since they have alot of fans out west

Yep I wrong about the 48k limit, but that raising above 25k limit also must apply as well.
But the 25k one only requires " negotiation in good faith "

Apparently the govt. is negotiating an opt out at the moment:

Financially, too, doing away with ANZ Stadium appears fraught. It would mean breaking the government's contract with owners Stadium Australia Group, which runs till 2031 and which the consortium is understood to be considering extending in return for government assistance. Part of that contract is for Allianz Stadium's capacity to stay below 48,000. The amount of compensation the government might have to pay to break the contract is being discussed in the negotiations.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/sydneys...bitter-fight-for-funding-20150214-13e2nq.html

Its a ridiculous deal though. 35 Years!

And Badgeries Creek would be just as much a nuisance as ANZ, if not more.
No-one lives there, and its not really close to anyone its just equally far.

Not to mention ANZ is closer for both Parra and the Bulldogs.
And Parra stadium is really convenient for Parra fans (parking aside).

A big event stadium can be in a place like homebush but a ground your playing in week in week out has got to be (ideally) close to your base.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

so if the limit is 48k, then a new stadium with a capacity of 48k could be built in sydney's west. perfect size!

if it was at badgerry's creek you could have 4 clubs playing home games there: penrith, wests, parra, canterbury. who knows, even souths might play some games there since they have alot of fans out west

There are way too many negatives to a Badger creek stadium....

- First, (i assume you are basing the idea off the WS airport) the airport and related infrastructure wont be finished for over 10 years (assuming there are no delays), not even considering the fact that the train line isnt part of the phase 1 transport. This means that a new stadium could be sitting in the middle of nowhere for a decade before transport links are build for the area.
- Second, this is a greenfield site; the airport will be the first bit of major economic stimulus the local area will see, the city forming around it later. This means a new stadium would be even worse than Olympic Park regarding shit to do before/after games.

Having said that, the WS Airport transport infrustructure will totally reshape West Sydney, so a new stadium does need to take that into consideration. Id personally suggest Blacktown as the location of the new stadium.
- All the City-Airport links will pass through here then head south ST Marys (apparently), so it will be easy as piss to get to.
- There will also be links from Liverpool and Campbeltown to the airport, which would attach to the Blacktown lines and roads, so fans in the SW could travel easily aswell.

Panthers, Tigers, Bulldogs and Parra could all easily draw crowd there from not only their own traditional areas but from their oppositions fans and neutrals all over Western Sydney.