Game Day v Tigers

[Dibs]

You still can't tell me which NRL Premier in the last 10 years prioritised attacked over defence.

I never said one did, I said they would have the attitude to score more tries then they let in.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Can't agree mate. You can have all the confidence in the world but if you lack skill then your execution will be poor. Also, if you happen to meet a team that is controlling the ruck and in your face you can be confident and skilled but your execution could still be poor.

More factors at play than no confidence = bad execution; confidence = good execution.

You're right, but I still think our confidence has been down since the Titans game, and this has affected our execution. I think our effort has been fine, though doing more than 50% defence has led to fatigue, which obviously counters effort.

If I had a whiteboard and a few different coloured marker pens I could show you.

 

[Chipmunk]

Can't agree mate. You can have all the confidence in the world but if you lack skill then your execution will be poor. Also, if you happen to meet a team that is controlling the ruck and in your face you can be confident and skilled but your execution could still be poor.

More factors at play than no confidence = bad execution; confidence = good execution.

If you lack skill you're team won't ever get the confidence needed in the first place.

The team with the most confidence will be the ones who controls the ruck, if you're getting controlled in the ruck then you don't have sufficient confident to execute against your opponent.

Confidence + skill will always equals good execution. But if you don't have that execution needed, do you really have that confidence.

 

[Bazal]

If only we had as well...

Winning a premiership is hard as shit, tbh. Especially in the modern game. Realistically there are probably four or five sides genuinely capable, and six or seven more good enough to go on a run and jag one a la Wests in 2005.

Our problem isn't that we've not gone forwards, it's that thanks to a succession of crap politics we've gone backwards since 2005 or so.

 

[Chipmunk]

I never said one did, I said they would have the attitude to score more tries then they let in.

And I said they're priority was defence over attack and the scoring of more tries than their opponent will naturally occur.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I reckon if you score more tries than your opponent then you will naturally concede fewer as well.

 

[Chipmunk]

The game has come a little bit further since 1986....

Agreed, but good defensive teams still seem to be winning Premierships.

 

[Bazal]

And I said they're priority was defence over attack and the scoring of more tries than their opponent will naturally occur.

No it won't. Look at the Bulldogs. They prioritised defence over attack to the point that they have zero attacking flair and they often struggle to beat quality sides who are more capable attackers than they are.

You need to focus equally on attack and defence to win a premiership. Pretty obvious.

 

[Gary Gutful]

If you lack skill you're team won't ever get the confidence needed in the first place.

The team with the most confidence will be the ones who controls the ruck, if you're getting controlled in the ruck then you don't have sufficient confident to execute against your opponent.

Confidence + skill will always equals good execution. But if you don't have that execution needed, do you really have that confidence.

So basically:

1. If you are not controlling the ruck and losing you aren't confident.
2. If you are controlling the ruck and winning then you are confident.

Do you accept that you can still play with confidence and lose? Based on what you are saying you seem to be suggesting that this isn't possible.

 

[Dibs]

And I said they're priority was defence over attack and the scoring of more tries than their opponent will naturally occur.

What you actually said was that wanting to score more tries in a half then your opposition is a poor attitude which is as stupid of a statement as I have read on this place

 

[Gary Gutful]

Our problem isn't that we've not gone forwards, it's that thanks to a succession of crap politics we've gone backwards since 2005 or so.

If we've gone backwards doesn't that suggest that we haven't gone forward?

EDIT: OK, I think you are suggesting we were going forward before 2005 but have been going backward since.

 

[Dibs]

Agreed, but good defensive teams still seem to be winning Premierships.

How many poor attacking teams are winning premierships?

 

[Bazal]

If we've gone backwards doesn't that suggest that we haven't gone forward?

More that we've stagnated since 2005 IMO. Every time we take a step forward the boards have f**ked it and we've gone backwards again.

 

[Chipmunk]

No it won't. Look at the Bulldogs. They prioritised defence over attack to the point that they have zero attacking flair and they often struggle to beat quality sides who are more capable attackers than they are.

You need to focus equally on attack and defence to win a premiership. Pretty obvious.

So basically:

1. If you are not controlling the ruck and losing you aren't confident.
2. If you are controlling the ruck and winning then you are confident.

Do you accept that you can still play with confidence and lose? Based on what you are saying you seem to be suggesting that this isn't possible.

In any given game a team who is 'generally more confident' than they're opponent may not win, but the team with more confidence will win more matches than the team with less confidence more often than not.

Very few teams don't control the ruck and win more games than they lose.

Very few teams who control the ruck and lose more games than they win.

 

[Chipmunk]

How many poor attacking teams are winning premierships?

None, but they're more than likely poor defenders too.

 

[Chipmunk]

No it won't. Look at the Bulldogs. They prioritised defence over attack to the point that they have zero attacking flair and they often struggle to beat quality sides who are more capable attackers than they are.

You need to focus equally on attack and defence to win a premiership. Pretty obvious.

The most consistent of the last decade is the Storm, who reportedly spend well above 50 per cent of their training on defence. There is a reason they're in the top 4 most season and very little of it has to do with their attacking prowess..

 

[Gary Gutful]

In any given game a team who is 'generally more confident' than they're opponent may not win, but the team with more confidence will win more matches than the team with less confidence more often than not.

Very few teams don't control the ruck and win more games than they lose.

Very few teams who control the ruck and lose more games than they win.

You've now shifted the argument to "more wins than losses" over multiple games rather than an absolute with respect to an individual game. A sensible move because you weren't on very solid ground beforehand.

I would probably agree with this now but only because you changed your tune fairly significantly (something you often accuse Pou of doing).

 

[Chipmunk]

What you actually said was that wanting to score more tries in a half then your opposition is a poor attitude which is as stupid of a statement as I have read on this place

Well perhaps my use of the word 'wanting' was inappropriate in that instance. (if I used that word...)

 

[Chipmunk]

You've now shifted the argument to "more wins than losses" over multiple games rather than an absolute with respect to an individual game. A sensible move because you weren't on very solid ground beforehand.

I would probably agree with this now but only because you changed your tune fairly significantly (something you often accuse Pou of doing).

There's too many variables in a game that effect the outcome of one match, not just confidence, but the most confident teams throughout the season are generally those ones playing finals football.

We played with considerably more confidence, particularly in defence, last season (the last 14 games - forget the first 10) than we have done the last 5 weeks, with a group of players probably not as skilful.

 

[Bazal]

The most consistent of the last decade is the Storm, who reportedly spend well above 50 per cent of their training on defence. There is a reason they're in the top 4 most season and very little of it has to do with their attacking prowess..

They also have three of the best attacking players in important positions in the game, thus proving my point. You need to be able to score points as well as stop them to win a premiership.

If you don't think their ability to score points is an incredibly important part if their success than you're on a different planet, sorry. They are better than most sides in attack and defence.