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Game of Thrones

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God-King Dean

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I'm actually didn't mind it as much as others, as that's exactly what those mutineering pieces of shits would have done. But I take your point in making it 'sexy rape'. Should have been as brutal as Jaime on Cersei if you're going to make rapey rape.
 

Springs

First Grade
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5,682
I'm actually didn't mind it as much as others, as that's exactly what those mutineering pieces of shits would have done. But I take your point in making it 'sexy rape'. Should have been as brutal as Jaime on Cersei if you're going to make rapey rape.

Well that whole scene was pointless anyway. The mad scientist from Pacific Rim trying to say as many curse words and offensive things as possible while he drinks from a skull and everyone around him is raping women. Yeah alright, they're bad. Ok. Just trying to be shocking for shock's sake.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
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8,163
Why would the girls fight like Cersei did? They are broken things, Craster made sure of that. They wouldn't complain, because that is life. That is all they've known. And sexy rape? It wasn't titillating, it just was what it was. It was displayed as inevitable fact, and mechanical as f**k. There was even rape in the background to hammer that point home.
 

Someone

Bench
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4,964
Well that is pointless but I find the rapes at Craster's to be more insulting as they seem to expect their viewers to be turned on by the naked body of a woman being raped.

no, we werent. we were ment to be disgusted towards the character, and it was used to regain our feeling of hate considering we havent seen (whats his face traitor of the nights watch) since 'And now his watch has ended'.
 

SpaceMonkey

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40,768
no, we werent. we were ment to be disgusted towards the character, and it was used to regain our feeling of hate considering we havent seen (whats his face traitor of the nights watch) since 'And now his watch has ended'.

Exactly. I had no problem with that scene, it was meant to hammer home just how totally the mutineers had regressed to their criminal pasts and forgot their vows. Its was disgusting and abject, as it was meant to be. And as afinalsin666 says the girls didn't fight it because there was no point in them doing so, they were thoroughly broken and thats all they'd know at that point. It wasn't meant to be comfortable, pretty viewing, and certainly wasn;t meant to be sexy.
 

Ghoulies

Bench
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3,948
Well that is pointless but I find the rapes at Craster's to be more insulting as they seem to expect their viewers to be turned on by the naked body of a woman being raped.
No. Just... no.

The brothel scenes are clearly shot to titillate; the Craster scenes are meant to horrify. This really couldn't be clearer.
 

Springs

First Grade
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5,682
No. Just... no.

The brothel scenes are clearly shot to titillate; the Craster scenes are meant to horrify. This really couldn't be clearer.

They are meant to entertain. If they were meant to horrify they'd show more violence, not focus on bouncing boobs.
I'm fine with showing the rape but it's clear from the shots they used that the boob shots were just gratuitous shit. Everyone was horrified from Craster's incestuous rape of his daughters without showing close-ups of bouncing breasts.
 

Springs

First Grade
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no, we werent. we were ment to be disgusted towards the character, and it was used to regain our feeling of hate considering we havent seen (whats his face traitor of the nights watch) since 'And now his watch has ended'.

Karl and Rast weren't raping or killing. It was nameless background rape that needed a few close-up shots of bouncing boobs for some reason. Why did they need that exactly? We already got how terrible everyone there was.
It was shock for shock's sake. Everyone already knows they murdered Mormont. Karl is just over-the-top madness. Overacting to the extreme. The only point that scene had was giving the baby to the White Walkers. Otherwise it's nothing more than torture porn.
In fact a lot of this season seems like the creators are trying to outdo other shows in the shock and horror area. Thenns being cannibals as an example.

Why would the girls fight like Cersei did? They are broken things, Craster made sure of that. They wouldn't complain, because that is life. That is all they've known. And sexy rape? It wasn't titillating, it just was what it was. It was displayed as inevitable fact, and mechanical as f**k. There was even rape in the background to hammer that point home.

So why the close shots of boobs then?
Every sex scene in this show has been mechanical as f**k. They are so fake looking and sounding I don't know how anyone could be turned on by them.
 

Someone

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4,964
So, are all the naysayers of the rape scene going to stop watching and boycott the show?

Thats what i thought, it obviously didnt hit a nerve too hard and you are just arguing for arguments sake. You'd have to ask the writers/directors of the episode as to why they decided to show a little to moderate amount of nudity in a rape scene in a show thats renowned for a realist approach to anything sex or violence.

I understand how they could have got away with leaving out the titty shot (i only saw one close up of tits) and possibly toning the scene down abit but really if your offended by that scene you probably should have picked up sooner in the series that this TV show isnt for you. Rape is highly suggestive throughout the show so people that have been raped should be smarter than to watch it, frankly.

Again i understand where everyone is coming from, art is a different point of view for everyone.
 

perverse

Referee
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26,716
So, are all the naysayers of the rape scene going to stop watching and boycott the show?

Thats what i thought, it obviously didnt hit a nerve too hard and you are just arguing for arguments sake. You'd have to ask the writers/directors of the episode as to why they decided to show a little to moderate amount of nudity in a rape scene in a show thats renowned for a realist approach to anything sex or violence.

I understand how they could have got away with leaving out the titty shot (i only saw one close up of tits) and possibly toning the scene down abit but really if your offended by that scene you probably should have picked up sooner in the series that this TV show isnt for you. Rape is highly suggestive throughout the show so people that have been raped should be smarter than to watch it, frankly.

Again i understand where everyone is coming from, art is a different point of view for everyone.
I won't, but I do know at least one person who has dropped it.

A realist approach to anything sex or violence? LOL. Yeah, righto. It was really realistic how that guy pegged that dagger at the horse and downed that champion of whereever this season. Super realistic.

I remember how realistic the dragons burning that magic dude at Qarth was, too. God... this show is so realistic with it's violence.

As Springs said before you - the sex in the show is hardly realistic at all. It's totally mechanical and fake. The only way you could possibly think that sex is represented realistically in this show is if your only experience with sexd is porn.

I think the words you must be looking for is gritty and raw, not realistic.

What place does realism have in a fantasy series, anyway? Look, on the rape thing - I had no issue with the Jamie and Cersei scene of the previous episode. It has purpose relevant to central characters. It told us a lot about the psychological state of our characters... and it told us in no uncertain terms where their relationship stands at this point. It was relevant. I also thought Crasters rapeyness was very well handled. I thought the rapeyness of the dudes that Arya got needle back from a few eps back was handled well. The near-rape of Sansa was another good way of illustrating rape without showing it. You don't need to show full blown rape on camera to show someone is a rapist and a detestable piece of shit.

The rape going on in the background by anonymous characters in the last episode was completely unnecessary - proven by the show itself in the past. They could have shown how evil these guys are in any number of ways, they could have implied it like they did with Craster himself - in fact I think I was actually more repulsed by Craster - without the need to shove rape in our face. It was put in there to be edgy - and for no other sensible reason. It advanced the story nil - it told us nothing about anyone aside from anonymous bad guys are anonymous bad guys - which we already knew and could have had communicated to us in far more tasteful ways. The rape needn't happen in front of us on camera for an entire scene whilst some hateful dick spews vitriol from his stupid headface. It was gratuitous - and pretty insensitive.

Someone - have you ever dealt with the issue of rape in the real world?

I'll keep watching because I love the show, I love the characters and I love the story... but I lost a bit of respect for the creators of the show, and I do know at least one person who probably won't watch it anymore due to being repulsed. Hell, I'm not saying the creators of the show don't have the right to do as they wish with it - I'm just calling it out for what it is - gratuitous and insensitive. Rape should be treated with a lot of care in entertainment, and I believe the shows creators failed on this one in an area in which they've had a pretty good track record to this point. It was disappointing... but if you feel that it's a good, tasteful thing to be putting out there, well, good luck with it. You're entitled to your opinion.
 

Ghoulies

Bench
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3,948
They are meant to entertain. If they were meant to horrify they'd show more violence, not focus on bouncing boobs.
Sexual violence is violence, only more horrifying.
I'm fine with showing the rape but it's clear from the shots they used that the boob shots were just gratuitous shit. Everyone was horrified from Craster's incestuous rape of his daughters without showing close-ups of bouncing breasts.
Your argument appears to be that they showed boob, so they must have been trying to turn us on.

My argument is that there's a marked difference between showing the boob of a woman being assaulted, before cutting to a depressed looking woman with a nasty wound on her back, and the brothel scenes where the camera starts at the image of a softly lit arse, before panning up to two girls going at it.

The former horrifies; the latter (attempts to) titillate.
 
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People who have been raped, for one. Those that are close to people who have been raped would be the next on the list perhaps.

Ok. Why are rape scenes worse than a murder or torture scene? Why not complain about a young man getting his balls cut out? Much worse than being raped.

Things I wouldn't prefer happening to me over being raped

1. Death
2. Burnt to death on a cross
3. Burnt to death by a dragon
3. Having my balls cut out
4. Having molten gold poured over my head
5. Being stabbed/disembowelled/impaled/ shot by arrows

Rape is bad, but so are a lot of things on this show.
 
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perverse

Referee
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26,716
Ok. Why are rape scenes worse than a murder or torture scene? Why not complain about a young man getting his balls cut out? Much worse than being raped.

Things I wouldn't prefer over being raped

1. Death
2. Burnt to death on a cross
3. Burnt to death by a dragon
3. Having my balls cut out
4. Having molten gold poured over my head
5. Being stabbed/disembowelled/impaled/ shot by arrows

Rape is bad, but so are a lot of things on this show.
Because rape is much more prevalent in society than any of the things you've mentioned. It's also a more intimate violation and trauma that leaves people scarred for life. It's also, classicly, an act of violence specifically against women and to oppress women... that isn't to say that a man can't be raped, of course.

To be honest, the statement you've just made is very, very offensive to rape victims and pretty disturbing to me in general. Many victims would prefer death than what they've been through. Many do take that option. Sexual violence is far more detestable and grotesque than any other violence you have mentioned for mine - ergo should be treated with an added level of care in my opinion... and I would suggest that you not comment on a topic that you clearly have zero exposure to in real terms. Think before you type. Victims of any of the activities you've just mentioned don't generally survive to be traumatised further by having their experience shown so verbosely on a TV show, either.

Regardless of all that, you're all reacting like I'm saying we should ban the show or something. I'm not. I'm saying that it was distasteful, cheap and gratuitous - which it was. I can't see a single argument yet that convinces me it was neither of these.

Why was that casual background rape necessary in that scene when they have handled the topic with far more class in the past? Why would you even defend it?
 
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Ghoulies

Bench
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3,948
Who's attacking you though?

I actually agree with you that people should be a lot more careful in depicting rape than other forms of violence, I just don't think the writers want you to get off when they show a woman being raped.

Chicken seems to just disagree with you that rape is the worse thing that can happen to someone.

Umina hates rape but had no problem with the episode.

I'm not seeing any attacks here.

edit - And you've deleted the part about being attacked. Nevermind.
 

Springs

First Grade
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5,682
Who says the writers do? As you know, HBO has a perv producer who forces them to put nudity in. It was the boob quota of the week.
It's not so much the rape, but how it's portrayed in my opinion.
Theon getting castrated is a big thing, and portrayed as such. It also isn't portrayed graphically. I didn't mind how the rape was portrayed with Jaime-Cersei, it was the changes to character I hated there. In this episode it was just like 'eh, chuck some rape in the background. We can get a few close-up shots of boobs then too'. As I said before, the whole scene was nothing more than torture porn. Would the scene have had the same message and effect without casual background rape and boob shots? Yes. Would the episode have been much different without that scene at all? Apart from the baby sacrifice, no.
There was a similar scene in the latest 300 movie. During the sack of Athens there were a bunch of women being raped for no reason at all.

Umina hates rape...well uh, duh? If he didn't hate it that would be a little disturbing wouldn't it?
 

Springs

First Grade
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5,682
I'm not saying it's exactly the same as the brothel scenes. The point is if there's rape there's no reason to focus on the naked, bouncing breasts of the woman. That part is simply gratuitous, as they showed last episode they can have the same effect with clothed rape. Even if the woman has to be naked, there's no reason for there to be a close-up on her naked body.
 
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