Gasnier, Centre or 5/8?

[Bring back John Fifita]

Long discussed in many forums & threads. Just seeking a summary of who's for & against Gasnier (seemingly) donning #6 in 07.

Where should he play in your opinion?

IMO - Centre.

 

[Dragonwest]

I think with our lack of depth in the centers and abundance on the wings, as soon as head is ready hornby should move from half to 5/8 with gaz in the centers and with b morris given the opportunity at fullback for the year. Gasnier should however start the season at 5/8 until either head or even young is fit.

 

[Dragon_psa]

I can't see the problem with Gaz switching to standoff. It worked for Daley (who has been mentoring Gaz for the role apparently) and Fittler who were both centres before moving to 5/8, and Gaz has as much natural talent as those two players IMHO. I also don't think we have any major lack of depth in centre, with Naiqama, Lulia, McDougall, Beau Scott, and even either of the Morris boys who could play there. If the unthinkable happens and Gaz doesn't work, then we can shift Hornby there anyway. Besides, Gaz may not necessarily play the traditional 5/8 position - he will most likely have a roving role similar to what he had at centre.

 

[Father Ted]

Back during the 11 year run . One of our hard and fast rules was to never play a player out of position .

 

[gregstar]

Back during the 11 year run . One of our hard and fast rules was to never play a player out of position .

langlands played centre
billy smith played centre

 

[Father Ted]

langlands played centre
billy smith played centre

Well Billy started grade as a centre , but once he moved to halfback that as they say was that . Chang on the other hand had a different problem , a well know player was signed who they wanted to start as a centre but refused to play there so chang was conscripted .

It's a bit different situation as well because we actually grand finals then and because i think with Gaz as 5/8th we will be lucky to make the eight .

 

[Willow]

I voted centre because I thinks that's his best position. But as to where he 'belongs', I don't mind him roaming and if that means he has a number six on his back, then so be it. IMO, he'd be a handful almost anywhere in the backline.

 

[Father Ted]

I voted centre because I thinks that's his best position. But as to where he 'belongs', I don't mind him roaming and if that means he has a number six on his back, then so be it. IMO, he'd be a handful almost anywhere in the backline.

I think there's a few holes in the 5/8th concept at the moment .
1 If he defends at 5/8th he will be defending a bit more which may tire him out or worse increase the likelyhood of injury and defeat the purpose of the exercise .
2 If there's a transition from 5/8th to centre in defence there will be a brief moment where a hole presents itself for other sides whislt players adjust and this could/would be fatal close to the tryline .
3 This reminds me most of the Michael O'Connor experiment we had some years ago , with most of the same reasons trotted out as to why it will be a sensation , but with most likely the same result as then .
BTW Willow wasnt't that the same year we had Steve Funnell playing fullback LOL .

 

[Redback71]

unless he can develop a descent kicking game he should remain in the centres.

 

[Mr Angry]

Centre, one of the best.

I fyou are going to f*ckkkk around, I suggest fullback. 5/8 NO NO NO.

 

[Dragonwest]

I also don't think we have any major lack of depth in centre, with Naiqama, Lulia, McDougall, Beau Scott, and even either of the Morris boys who could play there.

your probably right, maybe im just a little panicy considering ive got use to seeing two internationals in the 3 & 4 over the years ;-)

 

[Southernsaint]

Bring back Daniel Wagon to play Five-Eighth, I say!!

 

[Dazzat]

Darren Lockyer made a successful transition from fullback to 5/8, but the difference between Lockyer and Gasnier is Lockyer's "function" on the field was already as a 5/8. The main change Lockyer had to make was in defense - a change that took almost one year to get up to scratch (with a bit of help from Tony Carroll and David Stagg).

On the other hand, Gasnier has not 'functioned' as a 5/8, either in attack or defence. All his good work has been on the right hand side of the field, beating one, two or three players and setting up a winger or another support on the inside. Doesn't sound like a 5/8 to me. No kicking game, no ability to go either way in attack (something Lockyer does so well), and no kit bag of options. Just one - the shimmy.

If a player of Lockyer's ability took one year to get his defence at 5/8 on the money, prepare for a long season for Gasnier to adjust both attack and defence to 5/8.

 

[Godz Illa]

The arguments against typically consist of "why shift the worlds greatest centre out of position" and we should use an "actual 5/8".

The world's greatest attacking centre was isolated and wasted in the most crucial game of our season, while Barrett, an "actual 5/8th", enjoyed a glut of possession and did nothing with it. Gasnier's kicking game may be short of the "classical 5/8th" standard, but I'm satisfied that his passing is fine. Either way, I think we've already established that he will not be assuming a "classical 5/8th" role - the abundance of ballplayers (Hornby, Head, Woolford, Young, Caine/Chase/Williams) provides Gasnier with licence to roam. I would've thought that considering he is our best attacking weapon, letting him roam and receive the ball anywhere across the field was a good thing, rather than restricting his vast talents to one small corridor.

Also that the extra defence he may have to endure will tire and perhaps injure him and we'll see him in action less and less.

My response is that I doubt we can see much less of him than we saw in the preliminary final. Tiredness can be managed. Defensively he can be protected if required - what law states he MUST defend as a five-eighth? I think people are being too rigid about each player's roles. Most of them are fluid and interchangeable these days, Gasnier may defend as a centre, winger, even fullback if needs be. Recall when Albert Torrens was named at number 7 in 05. It's just a number on the back and in itself does not define a player's role. Gasnier will be wearing number 6 but he won't be replacing Trent Barrett. It will be an entirely different role for an entirely different player. Gasnier knows how to draw and pass defenders, and his long passing game is fine - witness the final pass for Cooper's try v Storm at Kogarah: running at speed, 10-15 metre bullet to the chest.

 

[Father Ted]

The arguments against typically consist of "why shift the worlds greatest centre out of position" and we should use an "actual 5/8".

The world's greatest attacking centre was isolated and wasted in the most crucial game of our season, while Barrett, an "actual 5/8th", enjoyed a glut of possession and did nothing with it. Gasnier's kicking game may be short of the "classical 5/8th" standard, but I'm satisfied that his passing is fine. Either way, I think we've already established that he will not be assuming a "classical 5/8th" role - the abundance of ballplayers (Hornby, Head, Woolford, Young, Caine/Chase/Williams) provides Gasnier with licence to roam. I would've thought that considering he is our best attacking weapon, letting him roam and receive the ball anywhere across the field was a good thing, rather than restricting his vast talents to one small corridor.

Also that the extra defence he may have to endure will tire and perhaps injure him and we'll see him in action less and less.

My response is that I doubt we can see much less of him than we saw in the preliminary final. Tiredness can be managed. Defensively he can be protected if required - what law states he MUST defend as a five-eighth? I think people are being too rigid about each player's roles. Most of them are fluid and interchangeable these days, Gasnier may defend as a centre, winger, even fullback if needs be. Recall when Albert Torrens was named at number 7 in 05. It's just a number on the back and in itself does not define a player's role. Gasnier will be wearing number 6 but he won't be replacing Trent Barrett. It will be an entirely different role for an entirely different player. Gasnier knows how to draw and pass defenders, and his long passing game is fine - witness the final pass for Cooper's try v Storm at Kogarah: running at speed, 10-15 metre bullet to the chest.

How do you cover another players defensive load , especially the speed the game is played at these days , surely even attempting it would leave holes to exploit and needlessly tire other players who have there own jobs to do ? And if tiredness can be managed why haven't we and other teams done it ? Why is it a factor still in so many game s? And if players are so inter changeable these days when exactly did that sea change happen . I do recall us playing Steve Funnell and also Ricky Walford at fullback and Michael O'Connor at 5/8th . I also remember it was a disaster . If positions have no definitions anymore how about playing Gaz at hooker where he can touch the ball constantly . It would at least give me a laugh .
The game is still rugby league and specialist postional players will nearly always beat the Brown/Doust propaganda theory of player interchangeablity . Maybe the theory was born when we sold one 5/8th to the bulldogs and had the other walk out on us to Wigan and needed a convenient myth while we developed a replacement .
Consider also there's no hard and fast rule that Gaz can't do some roaming from centre .

 

[_Johnsy]

The only place I want to see gaz is just over the tryline, thanks.

 

[Godz Illa]

The theory of interchangeability goes deeper than just losing Holdsworth and Barrett. The problems caused by injuries, rep duties and the salary cap weaken the depth of a squad, and a way of minimising the damage is with multi-skilled utility players. Ben Hornby has been a key player us for a couple of years now for this reason. It is a way of artificially manufacturing depth. Our squad has 4 fullbacks, 8 wingers, 6 centres, 3 five-eighths, etc etc.

Tiredness management is done by other teams. Darren Lockyer has been protected his enitre career, with little to no harm to Brisbane's prospects.

I remember Steve Funnell, but I also remember Kenny, Daley and Fittler. There are success stories too.

Good or bad, I'm ready for a fresh idea. The status quo hasn't yielded the desired result.

 

[_Johnsy]

This much I know, Brownie will have siomething up his sleeve.

 

[Wicks]

I think there's a few holes in the 5/8th concept at the moment .
1 If he defends at 5/8th he will be defending a bit more which may tire him out or worse increase the likelyhood of injury and defeat the purpose of the exercise .
2 If there's a transition from 5/8th to centre in defence there will be a brief moment where a hole presents itself for other sides whislt players adjust and this could/would be fatal close to the tryline .

Gasnier and Cooper made more tackles each game than Barrett and Hornby Depends on your team defensive style but centres and halves defend about the same amount Most sides follow this pattern apart from exceptions like Travis Burns and Kurt Gidley who are targeted every week and Preston Campbell and Benji Marshall who coaches hide Head was like that always when playing injured

Gasnier can still defend in the same place and wear a different jersey but defending next to a forward makes it easier not harder Opposition forwards always go for the centres and halves

Gasnier already goes into hooker to pass and run more than any most playmakers

Gasnier has not 'functioned' as a 5/8, either in attack or defence. All his good work has been on the right hand side of the field, beating one, two or three players and setting up a winger or another support on the inside. Doesn't sound like a 5/8 to me. No kicking game, no ability to go either way in attack (something Lockyer does so well), and no kit bag of options.

Gasnier has functioned as a 5/8th for at least the past two years You dont remember him setting up the try for Lockyer in the Anzac test the try against Canterbury at Kogarah Even just two examples shows you must have blinkers on What about when Gasnier set himself up to clinch the final test running into a grand canyon sized hole up the middle and Berrigan was too slow to think of the idea let alone pass the ball His support play on line breaks and chips throughout the year is up there with what Lockyer does You dont remember the line break down the left against Brisbane in Wollongong Where was he attacking the ball when we were trying to win the first Suncorp game last year Embarrassed yet It happened all year Souths game Cowboys game And there is plenty more

Gasnier has always kicked the ball He was a kicker in junior teams Its not so necessary where he was playing apart from short kicking which has always been good but Brown has developed his game and that will continue He doesnt need to be a main option he just needs to take another step forward in his development He could end up being a main option How was Hornbys kicking a few years ago

A player is outstanding in one area Doesnt mean you ignore everything else he does Many have been caught short so far arguing their opinion without really knowing Gasnier Godz Illa has a handle on what it is all about

 

[God-King Dean]

Give him a go at 5/8th... last year he didn't get a consistent go at it so you never know... he may end up being the messiah.

If he adapts & goes well... lave him there. If he's sh*t... put him back in his natural position. Simple as that.