General Discussion Thread

[hindy111]

Dogs will be the big improvers.
Sharks will become the new Parra (consistently falling short).

Dogs are under heaps of pressure. But if Burton goes down I think they are bottom 4.

 

[BxTom]

Dogs will be the big improvers.
Sharks will become the new Parra (consistently falling short).

You mean that the Sharks will return to their pre-peptides standard?

 

[MugaB]

Dolphins might finish 8th to 9th in NSW Cup. They're bottom 4 in NRL for sure though.

There's too many sub standard rosters in other teams... dolphins don't have the baggage other clubs have regarding roster management, theyve recruited well, yes no marquees, but you don't need one if they are all doing their roles, look at penrith when origin is on, and they'll have a better roster than most... plus theyll have cash to grab a ben hunt or tommy turbo etc to complement that roster, not the other way round where clubs stupidly pay millions for one star athlete then try to build a team around them... you must build the team first
Theyll finish 8-9th

 

[jane the pain]

Eels
Cowboys
Raiders
Panthers
Roosters
Souths
Storm
Warriors

Still drinking?

 

[Westernised Panther]

Eels
Cowboys
Raiders
Panthers
Roosters
Souths
Storm
Warriors

You’re actually giving the Panthers a good rating by finishing 4th?

That confirms that you’ve been sharing the Nicaraguan sherbet with Lane…….

 

[Blues Riff]

You’re actually giving the Panthers a good rating by finishing 4th?

That confirms that you’ve been sharing the Nicaraguan sherbet with Lane…….

 

[jane the pain]

You’re actually giving the Panthers a good rating by finishing 4th?

That confirms that you’ve been sharing the Nicaraguan sherbet with Lane…….

Nicaraguan?

 

[Iamback]

What are peoples thoughts on 2023.

Who are top 8?
Who can win the title?

I'll start by saying Penrith bar injuries will still be damm strong.
1-7 hasn't changed and along with Yeo run the show. May,Tago,Crighton are all going to be better as well.
The only thing that can hurt them is hunger. But I expect another 2 or 3 kids to debut and fans going WOW they must be kept.

Storm losses Kafusi, Bromwich brothers and B.Smith. But will have maybe the best spine in comp so they are interesting as are the Broncos who have a very young squad who gained experience and get stronger adding Walsh. I like both sides.

Eels are interesting. The packs weaker but the backs are the issue. Hoping they can re jig in off season and land some backs with power.

I think Saints will be the best of the sides who didn't make finals. Lot if young blokes just building their bodies up.

I can see the Dogs improve but Stimson,Reed I feel are good but not great.JMK had a solid season. Kikaus huge but they lost Vaughn who was their best forward. For me it's a lot on Burton and TPJ. If those two fire.

Most the top sides are weaker on paper bar Souths,Cowboys,Roosters,Sharks.

It could be a very interesting season - Or we could get the same old identical top 8 bar 1 or 2 bottom sides.

Top 8 won't change at this stage

Dolphins to run about 10th, Lots of clubs still in a mess.

To soon to say Premiers until full squads, draws etc come out

 

[Iamback]

Dolphins might finish 8th to 9th in NSW Cup. They're bottom 4 in NRL for sure though.

They have 2 current origin players
2 current NZ test players
Guys like Hammer, Brenko Lee that won Origin series under Bennett.

No way they finish that low, The 5 basket case teams especially will struggle

 

[age.s]

Not really, the cows gottem by like a second, the pushed them into overtime... the next game against souffs yeah they had nothing

They were completely drained. It wasn't the highest quality match but any 95 minute game is going to f**k with you physically. The loser of that game was always going to be fodder in w2. Top 4 can be a poison chalice in the modern format.

 

[Black Panther]

Eels
Cowboys
Raiders
Panthers
Roosters
Souths
Storm
Warriors

Eels to finish first..

 

[Pomoz]

If Gus was so great why did he sack Ivan?

Coaches I think are more man managers these days. That's most important. To keep the squad tight, happy and motivated.
You can always change attack and defense coaches and have 4 or 5 helping out with tactics.
What makes a Ivan such a great coach is he has a great squad.

Ricky Stuart beat the Storm as 3-1 outsiders. Is he a better coach then Bellamy?

I think Ivan is a great calm presence and players respect him. How would Penrith of went if Griffin stayed? Who knows. He may of had different ideas on retention and must keeps.

Your argument about Gus is reductive. Gus can't be great because he made a mistake. Both outcomes can exist simultaneously. Gus has been around a long time. Everything he is involved in becomes extremely successful. There is so much evidence to support that Gus is indeed, a great coach and administrator. There is also plenty of evidence to support that he makes mistakes. As my former CEO said " If you don't make mistakes then you aren't trying hard enough".

As for Ricky vs Bellyache, one swallow doesn't make a summer. They have been coaches for long enough to have enough data to show who is the better coach. Remember, Ricky had the great Roosters team in his control for a while, where he achieved a 60% win rate. Craig Bellamy has a 70% win rate at the Storm.

Ivan is good because he has a good squad. Hmm. Undoubtedly, some teams have won games in spite of having a poor coach, but the correlation between success and the coach is pretty strong. Under your hypothesis, Matt Elliott could have coached the current Panthers to 3 grand finals. Yet ME wasn't interested in development. Tago and May would never have made the team because ME would have insisted the club find him two new players.

Who put the squad together? Who selected the coaches? Who decided when to debut certain juniors? I think you vastly underestimate how important the coaches job is. You can't sustain success without a good squad and you can't sustain success without a good coach.

 

[MugaB]

They were completely drained. It wasn't the highest quality match but any 95 minute game is going to f**k with you physically. The loser of that game was always going to be fodder in w2. Top 4 can be a poison chalice in the modern format.

Didn't affect us in 2021

 

[jane the pain]

Your argument about Gus is reductive. Gus can't be great because he made a mistake. Both outcomes can exist simultaneously. Gus has been around a long time. Everything he is involved in becomes extremely successful. There is so much evidence to support that Gus is indeed, a great coach and administrator. There is also plenty of evidence to support that he makes mistakes. As my former CEO said " If you don't make mistakes then you aren't trying hard enough".

As for Ricky vs Bellyache, one swallow doesn't make a summer. They have been coaches for long enough to have enough data to show who is the better coach. Remember, Ricky had the great Roosters team in his control for a while, where he achieved a 60% win rate. Craig Bellamy has a 70% win rate at the Storm.

Ivan is good because he has a good squad. Hmm. Undoubtedly, some teams have won games in spite of having a poor coach, but the correlation between success and the coach is pretty strong. Under your hypothesis, Matt Elliott could have coached the current Panthers to 3 grand finals. Yet ME wasn't interested in development. Tago and May would never have made the team because ME would have insisted the club find him two new players.

Who put the squad together? Who selected the coaches? Who decided when to debut certain juniors? I think you vastly underestimate how important the coaches job is. You can't sustain success without a good squad and you can't sustain success without a good coach.

Among others.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Your argument about Gus is reductive. Gus can't be great because he made a mistake. Both outcomes can exist simultaneously. Gus has been around a long time. Everything he is involved in becomes extremely successful. There is so much evidence to support that Gus is indeed, a great coach and administrator. There is also plenty of evidence to support that he makes mistakes. As my former CEO said " If you don't make mistakes then you aren't trying hard enough".

As for Ricky vs Bellyache, one swallow doesn't make a summer. They have been coaches for long enough to have enough data to show who is the better coach. Remember, Ricky had the great Roosters team in his control for a while, where he achieved a 60% win rate. Craig Bellamy has a 70% win rate at the Storm.

Ivan is good because he has a good squad. Hmm. Undoubtedly, some teams have won games in spite of having a poor coach, but the correlation between success and the coach is pretty strong. Under your hypothesis, Matt Elliott could have coached the current Panthers to 3 grand finals. Yet ME wasn't interested in development. Tago and May would never have made the team because ME would have insisted the club find him two new players.

Who put the squad together? Who selected the coaches? Who decided when to debut certain juniors? I think you vastly underestimate how important the coaches job is. You can't sustain success without a good squad and you can't sustain success without a good coach.

I see Gus as a bit like James Maloney. Wonderful, but does have a time frame on his effectiveness. Meaning after this time frame he tends to wear thin, on various personalities. Both James and Gus are full on personalities who have strong opinions too.

The work Gus did at Penrith is remarkable. He sort out blokes like Matt Cameron, among many others, and equiped them to do a job.

The result to some extent is the Penrith we now see.

Gus though, does have some major flaws. One being his inability to stop tinkering within the coaching area, thereby treading on toes. He just can't seem to help himself.

I believe now looking back that sacking Ivan was perhaps not the right thing to do. Ivan though (at the time) was close to being burnt out. We are fortunate that it has resolved itself so well.

Gus also tends to 'fall in love with players and staffs wholeheartly' and then equally fast fall out of love with them. This makes things quite unstable, and lead to many of Gus's mistakes.

Penrith Panthers do owe a debt to Gus for his oversight expecially in the beginning when times were tough. Setting up the academies in the country, helping to build COE.

But in saying that the foot soliders did the hard yards blokes like Matt Cameron, Jim Jones, Royce, Ivan and many others. These blokes deserve almost equal billing with Gus.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Dogs are under heaps of pressure. But if Burton goes down I think they are bottom 4.

I still don’t see the ‘Burton is god’ stuff, but admit plenty others do so I might be wrong. But to me his kicking game looks like it has unlimited potential but is currently quite blunt, his attack is limited, but what he does do he does really well, and his defence is quite awful.

For me he could look awesome if his fellow half has a great season (manages the game, builds/counteracts momentum, plays both sides of the field), but there are probably 4 halves like that in the comp. Flanagan could make it one more but the poor kids career has been hammered by misuse.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Your argument about Gus is reductive. Gus can't be great because he made a mistake. Both outcomes can exist simultaneously. Gus has been around a long time. Everything he is involved in becomes extremely successful. There is so much evidence to support that Gus is indeed, a great coach and administrator. There is also plenty of evidence to support that he makes mistakes. As my former CEO said " If you don't make mistakes then you aren't trying hard enough".

As for Ricky vs Bellyache, one swallow doesn't make a summer. They have been coaches for long enough to have enough data to show who is the better coach. Remember, Ricky had the great Roosters team in his control for a while, where he achieved a 60% win rate. Craig Bellamy has a 70% win rate at the Storm.

Ivan is good because he has a good squad. Hmm. Undoubtedly, some teams have won games in spite of having a poor coach, but the correlation between success and the coach is pretty strong. Under your hypothesis, Matt Elliott could have coached the current Panthers to 3 grand finals. Yet ME wasn't interested in development. Tago and May would never have made the team because ME would have insisted the club find him two new players.

Who put the squad together? Who selected the coaches? Who decided when to debut certain juniors? I think you vastly underestimate how important the coaches job is. You can't sustain success without a good squad and you can't sustain success without a good coach.

For me the great thing about Ivan is the culture he has created. I think there have been more talented rugby league sides I have seen play, but none that play so connected so consistently (not just during the game, but week to week).

To win as often as they do requires them to turn up ready to play every week; that is on the coaching and the culture created.

 

[MugaB]

For me the great thing about Ivan is the culture he has created. I think there have been more talented rugby league sides I have seen play, but none that play so connected so consistently (not just during the game, but week to week).

To win as often as they do requires them to turn up ready to play every week; that is on the coaching and the culture created.

I think they are really mature, when it comes to playing the game, they treat it like work... which it is, but you usually see teams shrug it off like its only another game... these guys want to solve the puzzle, win and clock off

 

[ColdWetPanther]

They have 2 current origin players
2 current NZ test players
Guys like Hammer, Brenko Lee that won Origin series under Bennett.

No way they finish that low, The 5 basket case teams especially will struggle

They will have the slowest pack in the comp and little flair out the back.

Unless they get plenty of help from the refs and Bennett can get them up every week so they can turn every game into a SOO-like slug fest, they aren’t going to win more than a handful of games.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

I think they are really mature, when it comes to playing the game, they treat it like work... which it is, but you usually see teams shrug it off like its only another game... these guys want to solve the puzzle, win and clock off

Mature is a wonderful word for it.