General Discussion Thread

[herbert henry1908]

To kick off 2018 Hook had Peter Wallace, Tyrone Peachey, Corey Harawira-Naera and Trent Merrin available. Ontop of them he had Tyrone May become available through the year.

Our roster has gotten consistently weaker each season since 2016. 2016 was our peak roster with best depth. Losing experienced star after star and very rarely replacing them with experience rather than developing new guys ever since.

Ivan can go eat a dick. But the roster Ivan had day one is very different from the one Hook had day one and our 2018 vs 2019 roster was pretty different even before Ivan decided to weaken it further.

And Cleary has had the emergence of Naden, To’o, Martin & Kenny. Things have a way of balancing themselves out, then you have the continued improvement of the players already here.

The squad he had at the start of the season was largely the same, can’t see how it was very different. It was tinkered with around the edges.

 

[Abacus]

That is exactly how they started the season. Unfit and soft.

Bellamy, Bennett and Robinson are hard bastards. You need to be, to be successful. Accepting second best doesn't work, players have to be driven hard to help them be the best they can be. Being a good bloke just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps Ivan is unable to adapt his style to cater for different personalities? He comes across as professional, willing to do the work required and logical i.e. if we do a & b, then c should be the result. This approach appears to have been ingrained in Nathan.

However, footy players don't always do what you expect and you can't expect them all to be the best trainers and 100% committed 100% of the time. So you need to have a bit of bad ass as a coach and be willing to kick arse and give orders to players when required. I can't see Ivan giving anyone a decent, expletive-laden, spit-shower spray. Instead it'd more likely be the measured "I'm disappointed in you, I think you can do better" garbage from 80s US family shows.

Given where a lot of our juniors have grown up, a quality spray won't be anything they haven't heard before. Some even thrive on it. The trick is knowing which players. As a tip, after last week's effort, just ask JFH & Martin to leave the room and then spray the rest.

 

[mxlegend99]

And Cleary has had the emergence of Naden, To’o, Martin & Kenny. Things have a way of balancing themselves out, then you have the continued improvement of the players already here.

The squad he had at the start of the season was largely the same, can’t see how it was very different. It was tinkered with around the edges.

Round 1 last year we had:

3. Tyrone Peachey
9. Peter Wallace
11. Villiame Kikau (injured first few rounds this year)
13. Trent Merrin
14. Corey Harawira-Naera
15. Sam Mckendry (injuredfirst few roundsthisyear)

6 players out of 17 is not largely the same. The only one of those to play this year is Villiame Kikau. Granted Sam Mckendry only played 2 games lastyear also. But more than a third of our roster changed from Round 1 2018 to 2019.

The 'emergence' of Too and Naden has come at the expense of our 2 best backs in 2018. Kenny started out great (like Naden) but has really gone backwards (also like Naden).

Wouldnt be the first players to have a good start to their careers that they were unable to maintain for long.

Losing experienced representatives and replacing them with rookies is not largely the same. Our roster has had consistently decent changes each year since 2016. All of which were weakening the experience and depth in it.

I think Ivan has failed spectacularly this year. But a consistently weakening and changing roster is a big reason we haven't built toward anything in the past few years.

 

[franklin2323]

Round 1 last year we had:

3. Tyrone Peachey
9. Peter Wallace
11. Villiame Kikau (injured first few rounds this year)
13. Trent Merrin
14. Corey Harawira-Naera
15. Sam Mckendry (injuredfirst few roundsthisyear)

6 players out of 17 is not largely the same. The only one of those to play this year is Villiame Kikau. Granted Sam Mckendry only played 2 games lastyear also. But more than a third of our roster changed from Round 1 2018 to 2019.

The 'emergence' of Too and Naden has come at the expense of our 2 best backs in 2018. Kenny started out great (like Naden) but has really gone backwards (also like Naden).

Wouldnt be the first players to have a good start to their careers that they were unable to maintain for long.

Losing experienced representatives and replacing them with rookies is not largely the same. Our roster has had consistently decent changes each year since 2016. All of which were weakening the experience and depth in it.

I think Ivan has failed spectacularly this year. But a consistently weakening and changing roster is a big reason we haven't built toward anything in the past few years.

You can't judge losing DWZ and Blake yet though until we see what the squad looks like next year

 

[Panfa]

True its not his roster hes the incoming coach so he might escape criticism this yr but next yr it will be his roster and the pressure will be on.Paul kent obviously has an agenda against the clearys and after the bulldogs game rightfully so but he shouldn't make it personal.Rugby leagues a funny game things can change drastically week to week id love to hammer cronulla this friday night and send them packing we owe them a few.

 

[Fangs]

It ain't a true re-build until you release the halfback

With the amount of talent/salary cap space we are losing...must be something big cooking.

Long shot but I think this is a play for the boys from Manly. But you must have a plan B and C because even getting one of those guys would be extremely difficult to do.

Moylan, Korisau, Peachey are guys who will be other potential targets. Apart from that we'd need to convince a quality player to get a release. Spine players are our issue. Cooper Cronk might just play one more year if we threw enough at him but its a poor combination with Cleary in the squad.

2020 looking dicey atm. We have blown an opportunity to give Luai time in the halves as he is now injured. Next year could be anything for the club.

 

[OldPanther]

It ain't a true re-build until you release the halfback

With the amount of talent/salary cap space we are losing...must be something big cooking.

Long shot but I think this is a play for the boys from Manly. But you must have a plan B and C because even getting one of those guys would be extremely difficult to do.

Moylan, Korisau, Peachey are guys who will be other potential targets. Apart from that we'd need to convince a quality player to get a release. Spine players are our issue. Cooper Cronk might just play one more year if we threw enough at him but its a poor combination with Cleary in the squad.

2020 looking dicey atm. We have blown an opportunity to give Luai time in the halves as he is now injured. Next year could be anything for the club.

What if we are clearing the decks for a play at Ponga? His manager seems to be after whatever $$$ he can get.

 

[franklin2323]

What if we are clearing the decks for a play at Ponga? His manager seems to be after whatever $$$ he can get.

too many holes just to bring in one guy,..much better spreading the cap across a few guys. Given we already have a $1m player

 

[franklin2323]

It ain't a true re-build until you release the halfback

With the amount of talent/salary cap space we are losing...must be something big cooking.

Long shot but I think this is a play for the boys from Manly. But you must have a plan B and C because even getting one of those guys would be extremely difficult to do.

Moylan, Korisau, Peachey are guys who will be other potential targets. Apart from that we'd need to convince a quality player to get a release. Spine players are our issue. Cooper Cronk might just play one more year if we threw enough at him but its a poor combination with Cleary in the squad.

2020 looking dicey atm. We have blown an opportunity to give Luai time in the halves as he is now injured. Next year could be anything for the club.

If I am rating young halves coming through...Luai is 3rd on my list. So it is a good thing really to get a look at others

 

[OldPanther]

too many holes just to bring in one guy,..much better spreading the cap across a few guys. Given we already have a $1m player

I definitely agree and think any club is silly for paying any player too much. Just considering the possibility with how much cap they seem to be cutting.

If I am rating young halves coming through...Luai is 3rd on my list. So it is a good thing really to get a look at others

Will be watching with great interest.

 

[franklin2323]

I definitely agree and think any club is silly for paying any player too much. Just considering the possibility with how much cap they seem to be cutting.

Will be watching with great interest.

Depends on the club but we have our $1m player locked in...Now time for him to perform.

Bonnano the Flegg half looks a better prospect but is younger so is behind a few guys. There is a couple of others that have played NSW Cup but Hands I think turns into a hooker and Fearnley is too tall for the halves so probably is backrower

 

[martielang]

Luai seems to have fallen out of favour here with a few just because he plays unstructured footy (which is likely what we need), can't really understand it tbh. Looks dangerous every time he gets on the park for us & I haven't seen any major flaws in his defence.

Has to be given his shot imo.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Round 1 last year we had:

3. Tyrone Peachey
9. Peter Wallace
11. Villiame Kikau (injured first few rounds this year)
13. Trent Merrin
14. Corey Harawira-Naera
15. Sam Mckendry (injuredfirst few roundsthisyear)

6 players out of 17 is not largely the same. The only one of those to play this year is Villiame Kikau. Granted Sam Mckendry only played 2 games lastyear also. But more than a third of our roster changed from Round 1 2018 to 2019.

The 'emergence' of Too and Naden has come at the expense of our 2 best backs in 2018. Kenny started out great (like Naden) but has really gone backwards (also like Naden).

Wouldnt be the first players to have a good start to their careers that they were unable to maintain for long.

Losing experienced representatives and replacing them with rookies is not largely the same. Our roster has had consistently decent changes each year since 2016. All of which were weakening the experience and depth in it.

I think Ivan has failed spectacularly this year. But a consistently weakening and changing roster is a big reason we haven't built toward anything in the past few years.

I’m talking the 30 man squad, not the team from one round of 2018. Over the course of a whole season the entire squad is much more relevant than the 17 from round one.

McKendry was a bit player, Wallace played one year too many. I only see two significant losses there in Merrin & Peachey.


Re losing Blake & DWZ, Ivan was involved in that decision making. He can’t hang his hat on those guys not being here.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Luai seems to have fallen out of favour here with a few just because he plays unstructured footy (which is likely what we need), can't really understand it tbh. Looks dangerous every time he gets on the park for us & I haven't seen any major flaws in his defence.

Has to be given his shot imo.

Exactly. Our structure is crap, we need someone to shake it up, lord knows our coach isn’t all of a sudden going to learn how to create good set plays.

 

[OldPanther]

Luai seems to have fallen out of favour here with a few just because he plays unstructured footy (which is likely what we need), can't really understand it tbh. Looks dangerous every time he gets on the park for us & I haven't seen any major flaws in his defence.

Has to be given his shot imo.

I think he just needs game time. Getting stale sitting on the bench.

 

[herbert henry1908]

True its not his roster hes the incoming coach so he might escape criticism this yr but next yr it will be his roster and the pressure will be on.Paul kent obviously has an agenda against the clearys and after the bulldogs game rightfully so but he shouldn't make it personal.Rugby leagues a funny game things can change drastically week to week id love to hammer cronulla this friday night and send them packing we owe them a few.

It is his roster, for the simple reason he decided to come here and coach it over another team. Plus he’s coached a significant amount of this roster before.

 

[franklin2323]

Luai seems to have fallen out of favour here with a few just because he plays unstructured footy (which is likely what we need), can't really understand it tbh. Looks dangerous every time he gets on the park for us & I haven't seen any major flaws in his defence.

Has to be given his shot imo.

He will get 1st shot. but is 5/8th his best position? Plenty to say no and who knows maybe actually playing in the halves improve

No flaws?

He is averaging 27 kick metres a game. Katoa is averaging 22.

Less run metres than Katoa in one game less

0 line breaks.

0 tries

0 FG

Does have 6 linebreak assists. Does have 5 try assists though

Those stats to me don't scream a starting half in waiting. He should be in the 17 but we have better actual halves

 

[herbert henry1908]

He will get 1st shot. but is 5/8th his best position? Plenty to say no and who knows maybe actually playing in the halves improve

No flaws?

He is averaging 27 kick metres a game. Katoa is averaging 22.

Less run metres than Katoa in one game less

0 line breaks.

0 tries

0 FG

Does have 6 linebreak assists. Does have 5 try assists though

Those stats to me don't scream a starting half in waiting. He should be in the 17 but we have better actual halves

The try assists & Line break assists are the most relevant stat for a half, weird you list them last.


I mean, zero field goals? Who cares

 

[franklin2323]

The try assists & Line break assists are the most relevant stat for a half, weird you list them last.


I mean, zero field goals? Who cares

not kicking game? I rate that the most important feature of a half. It sets up the field position to get the try assists and line break assists. That is the order of preference for me rating halves but can use either way

 

[herbert henry1908]

not kicking game? I rate that the most important feature of a half. It sets up the field position to get the try assists and line break assists

You need to consider how many kicks he’s taking, who else is doing the kicking? Just looking at the number is isolation doesn’t say he’s got a bad kicking game.

In the games Luai has started he’s been playing with Maloney, clearly in that situation Maloney was taking the lead role as in game kicker. Rightly so.

Most of Luai’s kicks have been grubbers, he’s rarely given the role as field position kicker. That’s likely a tactical choice.



Luai is averaging 38 mins per game, which comes to approx 6 full games for the season. In that time he has 5 try assists & 6 LBA’s. That’s on pace over a full season for 20+ try assists, and 20+ LBA’s. Those are significant numbers.