General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Penrith Panthers' started by OldPanther, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. chrisD

    chrisD Coach

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    The points difference is bleh and if it needed explaining could easily be put down to personnel changes, degradation and availability. Our problem is the same problem since at least 2010 when the stats will tell you we scored a million points, give it to Kikau is just not nearly as good a band-aid as Coote chasing kicks was.
     
  2. Pomoz

    Pomoz Juniors

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    Well I don't agree regarding Bennett or Hasler, they didn't leave a mess, the clubs mismanaged their teams after they left. The team management cited salary cap issues and all sorts of rubbish, yet when they were at the Knights and Dogs those teams were really competitive up until they left. They also both have proven track records far better than Cleary, who isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to coaching success.

    As for the idea that Cleary inherited a mess, it is a myth. This team has made the semi finals four out of five years. We seem to gloss over the fact that Hook got us to 5th in 2018 but the competition was so even we only had two points less than the minor premiers.

    What is a mess, is the coaching and lack of imagination around our attack. As this tweet alludes to and as commentators on Fox pointed out, Penrith just run block plays and as the Dogs proved, they are easy to defend. That's on Cleary, nobody else and his track record shows he has form in this regard.

    You may believe it has always been thus, but the facts point to a different conclusion. We certainly weren't brilliant, but for tries scored we were 9th and 8th in 2017 and 2018 respectively. Last year we scored 89 tries. 15 less than the top scorers the Rabbitohs on 105. That is less than one try a game less. That's even with Manour and DWZ doing their usual job of not scoring much. In 2018, Blake and Peachey were our best scorers and Peachey left at the start of the year. Blake was here though and how do you explain why he started the season looking unfit and disinterested. Run down by Wighton like he had divers boots on. In any case, Naden is scoring at a higher rate. Too has already scored more than DWZ did in the entire season in 2018 so we have added some strike power, not just lost some.

    Cleary can change. He can get somebody in who knows how to coach attack differently and let them take control. He can watch and learn from them. But he has to free the reins and let them do the whole makeover, or we will finish the season way down the table. No excuse. This is on him to do what's needed. Be brave, let dummy halves run, let players offload. Do something, anything, doing the same will get the same result and that , as the saying goes, is just insane.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
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  3. herbert henry1908

    herbert henry1908 Coach

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    almost a 25% difference is bleh?

    ok...
     
  4. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    I haven't rated our roster for a few years. Certainly not while Gus has been here. Some his doing some the early years trying to fix the cap. So the mess I agree with

    I also think Ivan is bottom 4 of the current coaches...So not sure how it is fixed under his watch
     
  5. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    RL is who you know not how good you are
     
  6. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    Hook was better at getting an average roster going well. I rate very few coaches as worse then Ivan
     
  7. Pomoz

    Pomoz Juniors

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    Eh, its a mess? So 4 from 5 is a mess? I can't agree with that. There are no excuses for Cleary. Hook made the team competitive, why can't he?
     
  8. Panther Mick

    Panther Mick Juniors

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    [​IMG] DailyTelegraph ›


    The aimless Panthers keep going backwards but Ivan Cleary escapes any pressure
    August 06, 2019
    A year ago, the Monday after round 20, Penrith general manager Phil Gould called in Anthony Griffin and sacked him.

    The Panthers were coming off a 40-31 win against Canberra and were fifth and on their way to the finals.

    The Monday after round 20 this year Penrith fell out of the top eight after a loss to 15th placed Canterbury and their hapless coach Ivan Cleary seemed to be struggling for answers.

    But his job was safe.

    A year later and Penrith are worse.

    The Panthers had 56 per cent of the ball against Canterbury on Saturday and lost. They had 52 tackles in Canterbury’s 20m zone, to the Bulldogs’ 16, and got outscored three tries to one.


    The more athletic of the two teams, Penrith rolled down field much more easily than Canterbury, as evidenced by the fact they ran for more metres than the Bulldogs, 1576m to 1283m, but did not have the first clue how to attack once they got in good field position.

    They completed more sets and made less tackles but could not get it done.

    If it was not the worst coaching performance of the season, it might be the dumbest.

    The natural ballplayer in the club, James Maloney, is not being ignored but has been squeezed out. Maloney has already been shopped to France for next year and meantime has been reduced to a passenger in the team he should be running.

    Maloney is aggressive in attack. He comes from the same thinking as Melbourne, where everything runs off Cameron Smith, or the Roosters, where Cooper Cronk sets the tempo.

    Yet on Saturday Penrith simply ran shift to shift to shift, so bogged down and over-coached with block plays they might as well have lined up like ducks on a wall for the Canterbury defence.

    There was no point of attack. No putting numbers on Jack Cogger, the Bulldogs’ rookie five-eighth, or stacking numbers on one side of the field to take advantage of Canterbury’s defensive weaknesses.

    It was wish and hope stuff, side to side, the kind that works on the whiteboard but fails in execution.

    Canterbury was, simply, too brave for them.

    For reasons nobody is quite sure Penrith returned to the same attacking style that got their season off to such a stinker.

    Maloney was taken out of it and so the Panthers were, once again, slow and unimaginative.

    If only it was that simple, though.

    At the same time Cleary is making questionable game plans on the field he is making questionable decisions off it.

    Reagan Campbell-Gillard has been shopped around most of the season and is on the verge of signing with Parramatta. The two clubs are trying to work out a deal.

    Campbell-Gillard is 26 and last year signed a six-year extension when he was a State of Origin player under the former coach Griffin.

    No reason has been given for Cleary’s lack of enthusiasm.

    Campbell-Gillard is also confused, saying little more to friends than he believes the coach is “off me”.

    [​IMG]
    Cleary is retooling Penrith’s roster on the fly. AAP Image/Joel Carrett.
    The art of coaching is to bring those players in, to find a way to get the best out of them.

    If the Panthers are confused as to what that looks like, take a peep at what Des Hasler is doing at Manly. A strong, clear gameplan, maximising the talents of the players he inherited.

    Not at Penrith, where Cleary has somehow convinced the Penrith board their club is in need of a rebuild.

    So Waqa Blake was released mid-season to Parramatta. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak released to Canterbury.

    Jack Hetherington will be off to Canberra. Maloney gone to France. Campbell-Gillard being shopped around.

    Cleary must have forgot the roster he is clearing out was in fifth spot this time last year, and looked set for a finals charge before the shock sacking of the coaching, or can only coach one way.

    Which means a long, laborious rebuild.

    The message to Penrith fans is clear: wait.

    The club is trusting in their coach who is shopping around a 26-year-old State of Origin prop because they can’t get along.

    The same coach who signed Russell Packer and Ben Matulino to Wests Tigers last year, on bigger contracts than Campbell-Gillard currently demands, yet who are struggling to do what Michael Maguire wants from them now at the Tigers.

    What if Cleary is not the coach Penrith believe he is?

    Cleary was brought in because Griffin was sacked because the club did not believe he had what it took to take them to the next level.

    Yet, and exactly a year later, Cleary’s intent is a rebuild.

    A team fighting for a top four, under the new coach, is now asking for time.

    It was a lot of faith to put in a coach like Cleary who has yet to win a premiership.

    Cleary is an unproven premiership winning coach.

    He has coached 314 NRL games, winning slightly less than half, 148 but has won no premierships.

    Every premiership winning coach in the history of the game has won his maiden inside his first 250 games.

    The most any coach went was John Lang, who went 249 games before claiming the crown in 2003.

    In the faint hope left for Penrith it must be said Lang did it with the Panthers.

    You’ve got to hang on to something, right?

    https://outline.com/h9vLnq
     
  9. Panther Mick

    Panther Mick Juniors

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    I am not fussed on Kent but I can't disagree with his recent criticisms.
     
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  10. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    How many of those years did we have the same spine from one year to the next for example? also for recruitment. This time last year our backline was locked up for 4 years. What promising player will join in that situation?

    Hook wasn't trying to be their best mate is the main difference but no excuses
     
  11. Dave's mate

    Dave's mate Juniors

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    Better against bottom 8 sides and worse against top 8
     
  12. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    Hard to argue with it. The only thing for me is we were never a top 4 roster
     
  13. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    win half your games get in the top 8...or you have one that can prepare a side for an odd upset and lose to garbage teams. I know what I rather
     
  14. Pomoz

    Pomoz Juniors

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    It is so frustrating that Bennett, Hasler and Maguire were all available and we went and got the halfbacks Dad. F%ck we are so dumb at Penrith at times.
     
  15. Panther Mick

    Panther Mick Juniors

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    I never thought we had a top 4 roster but top 8 minimum. Particularly this year as in my opinion I think apart from a 4 or 5 teams I feel this year is a weak comp.
     
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  16. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    The quality of the comp the last 2 years has been horrible. Very few watchable games now. That is what makes not making the 8 worst
     
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  17. Panther Mick

    Panther Mick Juniors

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    I would agree with that. I find myself watching less games not involving us over the past few years.
    Either the quality of the match is poor or some games bore me to sleep.
     
  18. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    I have Kayo. So find myself watching the mini instead of the games. Too slow, no big hits and less tries. Very poor product atm
     
  19. chrisD

    chrisD Coach

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    Yeah I'm not reading all that. Des's and Bennet's recent tenures are indefensible and our roster is junk. Hook didn't do dick with it, the only chance we ever had of winning anything came and went with Moylan. Making the finals means shit all if you're getting blasted out by 30 in the first round.
     
  20. Whino

    Whino Juniors

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    For anyone needing a good root canal or suffering from insomnia Ivan will be on NRL 360 tonight with Kent.
     
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