General Discussion Thread

[franklin2323]

Souths pack is average
Mitchell no pre-season was lazy and a new position.
They will start Comp favs... I don’t see them finishing top 4 though

 

[Kilkenny]

Souths pack is average
Mitchell no pre-season was lazy and a new position.
They will start Comp favs... I don’t see them finishing top 4 though

I dunno so many bang on about the spine and they now have Mitchell, Walker, Reynolds & Cook which is not to shabby.

Even without the Burgess brothers there pack has some decent young players and with the prospect of Jai Arrow to come they are looking alright.

Without Jai Arrow coming this season perhaps the top four may be beyond them but they are sitting pretty long term.

 

[franklin2323]

I dunno so many bang on about the spine and they now have Mitchell, Walker, Reynolds & Cook which is not to shabby.

Even without the Burgess brothers there pack has some decent young players and with the prospect of Jai Arrow to come they are looking alright.

Without Jai Arrow coming this season perhaps the top four may be beyond them but they are sitting pretty long term.

Mitchell will take time. The halves will have nothing if the pack goes no where. Depends how the young guys come on

 

[Kilkenny]

Mitchell will take time. The halves will have nothing if the pack goes no where. Depends how the young guys come on

You see this is the thing in another thread Betcats has produced the stats to support the argument we didn’t roll down the field quite as well as apparently our own eyes led us believe we did in 2019.

At the same time there is this common belief the ‘spine’ is the most important aspect which governs success.

I’m not a big stats person I see what I see on field, at the game, and largely form my own opinions largely based on that as opposed to what is disclosed immediately afterwards or months after the event when all the statistics are in.

The recent posts on this thread have been about the Bunnies and I guess in that respect we can safely suggest there recruitment of Latrell Mitchell and Jai Arrow ( regardless of whether or not he get’s a release for 2020) is infinitely better than ours.

From my perspective we didn’t need to pay top dollar and bring back Api we should have stuck solid with Egan, Katoa or Kenny. (Egan in particular). The other two recruits may add value time will tell but given our stocks in our outside backs the new regime which you are 110% backing has failed miserably. Even bring in one of the ancient Morris brothers would have been a better option than another front rower/utility forward of which we have in abundance.

You keep talking up this new beginning, staff on the same page etc etc all sounds good in theory but I enjoyed making the top 8 even if we didn’t progress much further.

 

[Dave's mate]

Hooker was by FAR our biggest need. All 3 options in 2019 offered sweet f**k all

 

[Kilkenny]

Hooker was by FAR our biggest need. All 3 options in 2019 offered sweet f**k all

And why did they offer so little?

Was it there lack of ability or did our coaching and game plan contribute to the sweet f**k all as you put it.

Egan and Katoa more than capable of bringing the same skill set as Api at less cost but where never allowed to express themselves.

Egan considered by some to be the next Cameron Smith, one season after Ivan’s return he is shipped off. He was capable of so much more and certainly the equal of Api but is gone. He had sweet f**k all chance of proving his worth to this club.

 

[Kilkenny]

Can I just add to the above poor Sione Katoa was much maligned on here yet coincidence or otherwise when he represented Samoa he seemed to perform like a world beater. Samoa has no real structure or game plan and Sione was allowed to play what he saw in front of him. Totally different player free from the constraints placed upon him under Hook and Ivan which only allowed him to pick the ball up and pass it to which player was due the next hit up. Sione Katoa was a really solid player, capable of much more, but was never given the freedom to show his true value. Real shame because he was a good kid too.

 

[John Hamblin]

Can I just add to the above poor Sione Katoa was much maligned on here yet coincidence or otherwise when he represented Samoa he seemed to perform like a world beater. Samoa has no real structure or game plan and Sione was allowed to play what he saw in front of him. Totally different player free from the constraints placed upon him under Hook and Ivan which only allowed him to pick the ball up and pass it to which player was due the next hit up. Sione Katoa was a really solid player, capable of much more, but was never given the freedom to show his true value. Real shame because he was a good kid too.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I cannot agree Sione Katoa had a fair run 48 games most off the bench but he was at best ordinary

 

[Kilkenny]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I cannot agree Sione Katoa had a fair run 48 games most off the bench but he was at best ordinary

Absolutely but how does that explain his performances for Samoa. Yes they are largely one off games but how do you explain the two different players? I would suggest coaching and game plan are significant factors.

 

[MugaB]

Can I just add to the above poor Sione Katoa was much maligned on here yet coincidence or otherwise when he represented Samoa he seemed to perform like a world beater. Samoa has no real structure or game plan and Sione was allowed to play what he saw in front of him. Totally different player free from the constraints placed upon him under Hook and Ivan which only allowed him to pick the ball up and pass it to which player was due the next hit up. Sione Katoa was a really solid player, capable of much more, but was never given the freedom to show his true value. Real shame because he was a good kid too.

Seemed to have that Gagai strength when the representative jersey gets put on, same with M.Jennings, and T.Loloaea, it's a shame the week in week out grind of the season can't keep these guys interested enough for their clubs, but put on a rep jersey and they all become supermen

 

[Kilkenny]

Seemed to have that Gagai strength when the representative jersey gets put on, same with M.Jennings, and T.Loloaea, it's a shame the week in week out grind of the season can't keep these guys interested enough for their clubs, but put on a rep jersey and they all become supermen

Fan forums are notorious for making scapegoats. Sione Katoa was a victim of our less than stellar 2019 season. There were others. His failure has nothing to do with his commitment or otherwise, he gave his all, just wasn’t good enough apparently for the current regime and that’s all fine if Api does the business in 2020.

 

[John Hamblin]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I cannot agree Sione Katoa had a fair run 48 games most off the bench but he was at best ordinary

Some players lift themselves for represntative games or grand finals and are never able to match this level in normal club games. Eg Paul Osboure and way back when Olsen Filipaina and a number of Queenslanders.

 

[franklin2323]

Easy to lift for a game or 2 in a rep jersey...Much harder to do it over 24 weeks.

 

[franklin2323]

Some players lift themselves for represntative games or grand finals and are never able to match this level in normal club games. Eg Paul Osboure and way back when Olsen Filipaina and a number of Queenslanders.

Every player has skill or you don't make that level. It is mental and hard work that makes those take it to the next level

 

[martielang]

I still think if Cleary & Maloney perform to a level half of what they were being paid, Katoa & Egan are probably still here.

 

[betcats]

Katoa and Egan has soooo many chances, they didn't take them. Their service was shit last year, neither would run, neither kicks much. Neither is a great defender. They both consistently put us under pressure with shit service and errors. Its time to start being a ltitle realistic, not every kid that doesn't turn into a star is being held back. They just aren't as good as we think. If Sione couldn't establish himself after 4 years of FG under 2 different coaches then trying to make it someone else's fault is just silly.

 

[age.s]

Katoa's problem last year was fitness. He came back way too big and it showed when he needed to play longer minutes. His back half of 2018 was pretty good.

 

[franklin2323]

I still think if Cleary & Maloney perform to a level half of what they were being paid, Katoa & Egan are probably still here.

We will see this year but very few players that we have moved on have actually improved as players

 

[Tronald Crump]

Katoa and Egan has soooo many chances, they didn't take them. Their service was shit last year, neither would run, neither kicks much. Neither is a great defender. They both consistently put us under pressure with shit service and errors. Its time to start being a ltitle realistic, not every kid that doesn't turn into a star is being held back. They just aren't as good as we think. If Sione couldn't establish himself after 4 years of FG under 2 different coaches then trying to make it someone else's fault is just silly.

That is the long and the short of it.
Our Hookers were dreadful last year. Though some wish to deny it. I acknowledged it wasn't just the hookers last year that were poor, but they were the top of the queue.
Katoa had multiple chances under 3 different coaches (if you count Ciraldo's short stint) and did sweet FA here. I don't care what he did for Samoa. I care what he did here. If he goes and stars for Canterbury good luck to him, he probably wouldn't have done it here under Ivan's structure.
Egan had glimpses but was all hype. Maybe he lives up to it one day maybe he doesn't.
It was clear we needed a change externally for a hooker.
The club saw the problem and recruited the best option they could in Api, who when fit, I think is in the top 4-5 hookers in the game. If he is used right this year I think he will be an excellent acquisition.

 

[martielang]

Katoa and Egan has soooo many chances, they didn't take them. Their service was shit last year, neither would run, neither kicks much. Neither is a great defender. They both consistently put us under pressure with shit service and errors. Its time to start being a ltitle realistic, not every kid that doesn't turn into a star is being held back. They just aren't as good as we think. If Sione couldn't establish himself after 4 years of FG under 2 different coaches then trying to make it someone else's fault is just silly.

4 years is a bit of a stretch. He played a game or two here & there when we had injuries, & he was mainly playing lock for NSW Cup up until last year.

I'd argue he did establish himself under Hook in the back end of 2018 & then got picked again by Cleary to start in 2019. The team plays like a busted for a couple of months at the start of last season, the pressure mounts & he takes the hit for it. Cleary was never going to put his son nor the marquee Origin half under the gun, so the easy option was to blame the hooker/s. Granted Katoa did make some silly errors, but most of the errors were down to trying create something when we weren't scoring points in 20 or general fatigue.

That's my opinion anyway.