General Discussion Thread

[WestyLife]

Ive never quite been able to understand the timing

Simple:

1. tell him during the year it looks bad as you're interrupting his season.

2. Tell him later and he misses the chance for a good deal.

 

[Smug Panther]

Anyone watching 9 is just as guilty as 9 for these crap stories.

 

[panthersam]

Anyone watching 9 is just as guilty as 9 for these crap stories.

Well I’m not going to turn off the TV if other people I live with are choosing to watch it

 

[Kilkenny]

It’s all irrelevant really, same outcome whether he was told the minute after the grand final, halfway through the season or yesterday.

I don’t see it that way. Long serving players such as Josh earnt the right to be treated with dignity and respect. Given it is well documented planning around a clubs salary cap is often projecting two years ahead, I fail to see why our club weren’t in a position to have discussions with Josh around his future mid season. At the very least given his loyalty and service he deserved that, so the timing of the conversation at a cafe in Homebush was rather poor in my opinion. The outcome may be irrelevant, but the way it was done and timing could have been dealt with far better.

 

[panthersam]

I don’t see it that way. Long serving players such as Josh earnt the right to be treated with dignity and respect. Given it is well documented planning around a clubs salary cap is often projecting two years ahead, I fail to see why our club weren’t in a position to have discussions with Josh around his future mid season. At the very least given his loyalty and service he deserved that, so the timing of the conversation at a cafe in Homebush was rather poor in my opinion. The outcome may be irrelevant, but the way it was done and timing could have been dealt with far better.

How could they have respectfully told him that he wasn’t going to be in first grade in 2021 halfway through 2020? I dare say it just would have felt exactly the same way for Josh, the way they did took away the risk of it affecting his performance or attitude towards the games remaining in 2020.

Both routes would have resulted in him either attempting to prove the club wrong and working for a spot in first grade with us again or moving on for some more financial security.

 

[Jane Murray]

I don’t see it that way. Long serving players such as Josh earnt the right to be treated with dignity and respect. Given it is well documented planning around a clubs salary cap is often projecting two years ahead, I fail to see why our club weren’t in a position to have discussions with Josh around his future mid season. At the very least given his loyalty and service he deserved that, so the timing of the conversation at a cafe in Homebush was rather poor in my opinion. The outcome may be irrelevant, but the way it was done and timing could have been dealt with far better.

Get over it. We will be better off without him.

 

[Kilkenny]

How could they have respectfully told him that he wasn’t going to be in first grade in 2021 halfway through 2020? I dare say it just would have felt exactly the same way for Josh, the way they did took away the risk of it affecting his performance or attitude towards the games remaining in 2020.

Both routes would have resulted in him either attempting to prove the club wrong and working for a spot in first grade with us again or moving on for some more financial security.

Well for starters, no coach can tell any player they aren’t going to play first grade in the future.

Ivan as head coach was well within his rights to tell Josh Mansour the clubs preferred position was to start season 2021 with To’o and Staines as first choice wingers.

At the same time given the nature of the game it only takes an unforeseen injury to either To’o or Staines guess who is playing first grade.

Do you actually believe someone with the integrity and internal fortitude of the likes of Josh Mansour would have given any less than 100% had he have been told in June the club were looking at going in a new direction for 2021.

I think not and you do him an even bigger disservice if you think otherwise.

 

[panthersam]

Well for starters, no coach can tell any player they aren’t going to play first grade in the future.

Ivan as head coach was well within his rights to tell Josh Mansour the clubs preferred position was to start season 2021 with To’o and Staines as first choice wingers.

At the same time given the nature of the game it only takes an unforeseen injury to either To’o or Staines guess who is playing first grade.

Do you actually believe someone with the integrity and internal fortitude of the likes of Josh Mansour would have given any less than 100% had he have been told in June the club were looking at going in a new direction for 2021.

I think not and you do him an even bigger disservice if you think otherwise.

I apologise I mis-wrote the first part of my last post, I’m sure you knew I didn’t mean that they told him he flat out wasn’t going to play as I alluded to him working for a spot back in first grade at the end of the post.

In reference to the second part about Josh giving less than 100%, where did I ever say I thought he wouldn’t? It’s not about what any of us think, it’s about a corporate business essentially running off results - they obviously won’t approach things like you and I would? Whether they thought it or not, I bet it’s not something they would be willing to risk either way!

Say Josh did decide to kick up a stink and then start going down the Ryan Matterson route halfway through last season after being told the plans for 2021, do you think the corporate business running the show are willing to take that risk? With the amount of money that is invested into any one team, I highly doubt they would.

 

[Kilkenny]

Get over it. We will be better off without him.[/QUOTE

One of the key elements of our success in 2020 was having a really strong bond, really strong culture amongst the playing group.

Josh Mansour is a legend of our club and was integral to our success on the field including the three successful seasons under Anthony Griffin.

You run off at the mouth suggesting we are better off without Josh Mansour is just so disrespectful it belies belief.

Is our salary cap, roster in better shape given the clubs preference to go in a different direction no argument persons in far better position than me to make a call on that.

I’m fine with the decision of the club to spend there $9.6 million dollar salary cap on a squad that does not include Josh I’ve never said anything otherwise.

All I have ever said is his exit handled very poorly and frankly was done with an absence of class and should have been handled so much better.

 

[Smug Panther]

Well I’m not going to turn off the TV if other people I live with are choosing to watch it

Coward

 

[Kilkenny]

I apologise I mis-wrote the first part of my last post, I’m sure you knew I didn’t mean that they told him he flat out wasn’t going to play as I alluded to him working for a spot back in first grade at the end of the post.

In reference to the second part about Josh giving less than 100%, where did I ever say I thought he wouldn’t? It’s not about what any of us think, it’s about a corporate business essentially running off results - they obviously won’t approach things like you and I would? Whether they thought it or not, I bet it’s not something they would be willing to risk either way!

Say Josh did decide to kick up a stink and then start going down the Ryan Matterson route halfway through last season after being told the plans for 2021, do you think the corporate business running the show are willing to take that risk? With the amount of money that is invested into any one team, I highly doubt they would.

Josh Mansour going down the Ryan Matterson path, really. Is that what you think of the guy. You obviously don’t know Josh Mansour too well.

 

[franklin2323]

Simple:

1. tell him during the year it looks bad as you're interrupting his season.

2. Tell him later and he misses the chance for a good deal.

There was no better way. Those who say are delusional

 

[panthersam]

Josh Mansour going down the Ryan Matterson path, really. Is that what you think of the guy. You obviously don’t know Josh Mansour too well.

You literally ignored the rest of my post and also twisted what I wrote so no point in continuing this conversation lol

 

[Kilkenny]

You literally ignored the rest of my post and also twisted what I wrote so no point in continuing this conversation lol

You are no dummy, I am not suggesting you aren’t. You are articulate and the vast majority of your posts are good value.

Given the very strategic management of a salary cap, at what point do you think it was reasonable for our brains trust to form a conclusion Josh Mansour was surplus to requirements and therefore encouraged to explore opportunities elsewhere?

Do you think the light went on a day or two after the GF and our brains trust formed the conclusion at that point maybe we might have to get rid of Josh to free up funds for others.

I agree with your overall premise that his release was a business decision, no argument with that, but the way in which it was done was just plain wrong. You don’t treat club legends the way we treated Josh.

 

[panthersam]

You are no dummy, I am not suggesting you aren’t. You are articulate and the vast majority of your posts are good value.

Given the very strategic management of a salary cap, at what point do you think it was reasonable for our brains trust to form a conclusion Josh Mansour was surplus to requirements and therefore encouraged to explore opportunities elsewhere?

Do you think the light went on a day or two after the GF and our brains trust formed the conclusion at that point maybe we might have to get rid of Josh to free up funds for others.

I agree with your overall premise that his release was a business decision, no argument with that, but the way in which it was done was just plain wrong. You don’t treat club legends the way we treated Josh.

Then you must see why I reacted unkindly to the last post accusing me of thinking of Josh in a certain way in terms of using Matterson as an example, when it’s quite clear I was speaking from the clubs point of view and not that of my own?

To be honest, in the situation, whenever the club decided to inform Josh could have probably been seen as the wrong way to do it. It’s hard to see a situation where Josh would have straight away reacted any other way than he probably did anyway - I just know how cut throat results driven businesses like the one that these players are in are, so I think I’m just understanding in a way how it would have been handled in any other business that doesn’t involve a fan base that gets emotionally attached to a player.

For example, say a top graphic designer at Apple has been serving that company for 10 years and they just release the latest advertising campaign to huge success, but for one reason or another (or multiple reasons) are deciding to follow through with another graphic designer in the role going forward. No one outside of the actual graphic designer would have any care on the matter. Replace Apple with the Penrith Panthers club and that’s how they would have seen it in my eyes. It’s just unfortunate that behind all that is the fans who do support these players for such long periods of time.

I hope I was able to relay that into words properly lol

 

[martielang]

There was no better way. Those who say are delusional

There was no better way then a couple of days after a GF loss at a cafe... yep that’s textbook man management.

 

[Kilkenny]

It is a cut throat business, no doubt. It still doesn’t mean you can’t deliver the axe without a proper degree of dignity and respect.

 

[Kilkenny]

There was no better way then a couple of days after a GF loss at a cafe... yep that’s textbook man management.

I love the way you can more eloquently say in one sentence than what I try to deliver in a couple of paragraphs.

 

[panthersam]

It is a cut throat business, no doubt. It still doesn’t mean you can’t deliver the axe without a proper degree of dignity and respect.

I also see this as falling into the same thinking that at no point could it have been done respectfully or with dignity to anyone looking at it with an emotional attachment to Sauce.

It happens halfway through the year and it can be seen as disrespectful for putting it on Josh’s plate during his most promising season in a long while.

It happens when it did and it’s seen as it has been already.

It happens a month after the grand final and it’s disrespectful to Josh for restricting his chances at finding longer term security for him and his family.

It doesn’t happen until next year and it’s an amplified version of the above.

 

[Jane Murray]

I also see this as falling into the same thinking that at no point could it have been done respectfully or with dignity to anyone looking at it with an emotional attachment to Sauce.

It happens halfway through the year and it can be seen as disrespectful for putting it on Josh’s plate during his most promising season in a long while.

It happens when it did and it’s seen as it has been already.

It happens a month after the grand final and it’s disrespectful to Josh for restricting his chances at finding longer term security for him and his family.

It doesn’t happen until next year and it’s an amplified version of the above.

At least Mansour was told. Ivan could have given him the Benji Marshall treatment.