Geoff Carr warns players off Samoa

[Joker's Wild]

Caught the bait oz ;-)

 

[siv]

Has Uate played for a international team yet ?

 

[siv]

Also the international rules indicate that it is "international" representation at senior level

I would argue that playing for NSW & QLD does not mean you reprsented Australia yet - and can jump ship to another country

 

[roopy]

Has Uate played for a international team yet ?

Uate played in both the world cup and the pacific cup for Fiji.
6 games for 9 tries - including the semi final of the WC where he played against Australia and was injured early in the first half.

He also played in an aus schoolboys side that included Jarod Mullen, Dave Taylor, Mitchell Pearce, Michael Jennings, Chris Lawrence and a few others.

 

[siv]

So if he played for Fiji in the 2009 Pacific Cup that means he cannot play for another nations rep team for two years ie 2010 and 2011. So he could only start in 2012

 

[adamkungl]

Dude, SOO is not doing massive damage to the Int'l game. The eligability rules for International League is whats holding them back. If you can rep both NSW/Qld and your heritage country then things will improve massively.

Nothing to do with International Eligibility rules....its an ARL Origin rule.

 

[adamkungl]

Origin has outgrown its purpose...that being a australia trial...its far bigger than that now....and the only way we can loosen the death grip origin has over internationals is to allow "islanders" play origin as well as for fijij,samoa,tonga etc....

That's the stupid thing about all this though...Islanders and Kiwis already DO play Origin, so long as they play for Australia instead of their country of birth/heritage.

 

[roughyedspud]

question...


would the australian national team be weakened by allowing 'fijians,tongans,samoans' etc to play state of origin and for fiji,tonga,samoa etc...

 

[adamkungl]

question...


would the australian national team be weakened by allowing 'fijians,tongans,samoans' etc to play state of origin and for fiji,tonga,samoa etc...

I don't think so.

From the current squad:
Hayne could play for Fiji, but it's doubtful whether he would or not.
Same for Civenoceva. Similarly, Farah might play for Lebanon.

Excellent players, but Australia has the best depth of any Rugby League nation by far, and could easily replace them.

It would make close to no difference for Australia's chance at winning.

 

[Perth Red]

Dude, SOO is not doing massive damage to the Int'l game. The eligability rules for International League is whats holding them back. If you can rep both NSW/Qld and your heritage country then things will improve massively.

It sh*ts me that everyone blames SOO for being successful. Get your arses to International games if you want them to succeed. Vote with your feet at the gate

yes it is, SOO is not test football therefore there is absolutley nothing stopping players playing SOO and turning out for whichever country they see fit other than the bl00dy mindedness of the ARL and its desire to protect the sanctity (haha) of SOO selection.

How can you tell two players not to choose Samoa or they won;t be picked for SOO yet be happy to pick a player who played for Fiji just last year? Its farcical and is damaging the Int game. Uate should be the poster buy for Fiji RL and helping drive the game forward with the backing of the RLIF. Instead he is giving all that up and Fiji's big opportunity to get RL more developed in the hope of a NSW shirt. How's that not damaging to the Int game?

 

[roughyedspud]

I don't think so.

From the current squad:
Hayne could play for Fiji, but it's doubtful whether he would or not.
Same for Civenoceva. Similarly, Farah might play for Lebanon.

Excellent players, but Australia has the best depth of any Rugby League nation by far, and could easily replace them.

It would make close to no difference for Australia's chance at winning.

so why don't the ARL change the laws that are quite obviously damaging the international game..

they are like the kid that has all the best toys...but wants the toys from the kid next door too

 

[RedVee]

That's the stupid thing about all this though...Islanders and Kiwis already DO play Origin, so long as they play for Australia instead of their country of birth/heritage.

You say that but surely some are Australian by birth or by migration & citizenship/residency. Just because someone is eligble to be a Kiwi, Islander or Kumul by heritage does not always equate to their thoughts or desires.
If everybody that had an overseas heritage packed up and left Australia...... there would be a lot fewer of us here. We are a country built on migration, and these migrants, or at least their descendants, are Australians.

Just trying to point out that these are all case by case judgments and we shouldn't assume that everybody with a sleeve tatoo is not an Australian.

 

[adamkungl]

You say that but surely some are Australian by birth or by migration & citizenship/residency. Just because someone is eligble to be a Kiwi, Islander or Kumul by heritage does not always equate to their thoughts or desires.
If everybody that had an overseas heritage packed up and left Australia...... there would be a lot fewer of us here. We are a country built on migration, and these migrants, or at least their descendants, are Australians.

Just trying to point out that these are all case by case judgments and we shouldn't assume that everybody with a sleeve tatoo is not an Australian.

They should be given the choice without the massive bargaining chip that is State of Origin influencing their decision...Do you think Karmicheal Hunt who moved to Australia when he was 11 would have chosen to play for Australia if it wasn't for the lure of playing Origin?

Again, I am not condoning Origin turning into a free for all with NSW picking Benji Marshall and anyone who has ever set foot in NSW. State of Origin should remain for true NSW and QLDers - I just think we should allow them to play for their country of birth or heritage, if they wish.

 

[adamkungl]

Until the media starts putting pressure on the ARL, nothing will never change in regards to eligibilty rules. Would it be too much to hope that the journos who trawl these sites for rumours and gossip actually notice/care about fans' opinions on the international game?

 

[shinobi]

I think you have an overinflated sense of peoples desire to play for Australia. Its state of origin/money/exposure/ that pulls these young Polynesian kids to opt for Australia i read when Joseph Leilua turned down the Kiwis train on squad he said he wanted to play origin. He didnt say he wanted to play for Australia. Take Origin/money out of the equation we'll see where allegiances lie. You think if the Samoan team had as much prestige/payment as the Roos youre kidding yourself. These kids mostly come from lower middle class families working in contstruction and factory work of course theyre gonna take the money if it means supporting their families.

 

[RedVee]

They should be given the choice without the massive bargaining chip that is State of Origin influencing their decision...Do you think Karmicheal Hunt who moved to Australia when he was 11 would have chosen to play for Australia if it wasn't for the lure of playing Origin?

Again, I am not condoning Origin turning into a free for all with NSW picking Benji Marshall and anyone who has ever set foot in NSW. State of Origin should remain for true NSW and QLDers - I just think we should allow them to play for their country of birth or heritage, if they wish.

K Hunt? I don't know - probably not; BUT I also don't think that his family migrated to Australia with the purpose of young K growing up to support them through Origen earnings. He was schooled here and obviously grew up playing footy and talking footy with his mates - Origen would be a big part of that obviously. Surely it is also feasasble that K grew up as a Qlder in all but birth? 11 gives him what? 6 years in Qld (and Aust) BEFORE his first grade debut? Maybe this needs to enter the equation? perhaps an age of migration needs to be set? say, migrate before 16th birthday and you are ok? (whatever age, 16 plucked from u know where). Should Bob Fulton not feel Australian? He was about 5 when he came out? I think we are in danger of becoming a bit too precious. Some of these guys are Australian, or at least feel Australian, or want to be Australian. We just can't blanket assume they all prefer to play for non-Australian teams.

I don't think what Carr has said about only Australian declared players being available for Origen is that out of line, Union has/had similar regs on the super comp. BUT, I really don't have a huge issue with players from MINNOW countries being allowed in Origen Adrian Lam style (precendent), I wouldn't stop Neville Costigan playing Qld & PNG. I don't think that should be the case for England and NZ though. Guys like Ellis, Burgess, Morley etc are not NSW, Qld or Aust developed and should not be eligble.

The biggest thing I think is to give the minnows more games so as to make playing for them a reasonable choice.

 

[Evil Homer]

so why don't the ARL change the laws that are quite obviously damaging the international game..

I think we both know the reason.

 

[adamkungl]

Guys like Ellis, Burgess, Morley etc are not NSW, Qld or Aust developed and should not be eligble.

What about Cayless...born and bred in Parramatta.

 

[roughyedspud]

I think we both know the reason.

i know...just playing devil advocate

 

[Evil Homer]

Dude, SOO is not doing massive damage to the Int'l game. The eligability rules for International League is whats holding them back. If you can rep both NSW/Qld and your heritage country then things will improve massively.

The only reason why this is not the case is because of the stupid rules put in place by the ARL, and because the ARL are actively stopping it by using Origin to bribe players. If you had actually read the thread you would understand that.