GIO schoolboy cup/throphy

[s1ng0709]

Could they make zones, where kids could only go to schools within a certain vicinity of their house?

 

[magpie4ever]

Could they make zones, where kids could only go to schools within a certain vicinity of their house?

Unfortunately, there is a certain teacher at St Pats that runs around different districts signing up players (on scholarships) to go to St Pats.

Realistically, their 2nd and 3rd teams would knock over 99% of other school footy sides.

The local talented kids (rep footballers) who naturally attend the school, don't get a look in within the 1st side. Let's just say; there isn't a great deal of team (school) spirit.

But you can't counter the ego(s) of certain teachers and the school.

 

[Keenan]

You'll find that most of the St Pats squad are made of of local juniors from the surrounding areas from Blacktown,Mt Druitt,St Mary's & Penrith.As do they also play in their local clubs together as does any other premier football school

 

[magpie4ever]

You'll find that most of the St Pats squad are made of of local juniors from the surrounding areas from Blacktown,Mt Druitt,St Mary's & Penrith.As do they also play in their local clubs together as does any other premier football school

That is a bloody wide area with many schools in between.

Are you saying I'm wrong? That kids are not bought in on scholarships

They have tried to buy titles for many a year and have won one (last year); not very cost effective.

 

[Keenan]

It is the premier football school in the district & I believe there parents are only trying to give there kids the best opportunity to excell.Alot of these parents would not be able to afford to send there kids to a school like St Pats or the like.
Would you not do the same?

 

[magpie4ever]

It is the premier football school in the district & I believe there parents are only trying to give there kids the best opportunity to excell.Alot of these parents would not be able to afford to send there kids to a school like St Pats or the like.
Would you not do the same?

So you agree that St Pats hand out scholarships.

Have you ever given any thought that by handing these scholarships out, they are diluting the football talent of the other schools in this massive district/s. Therefore the fact, they are the premier league in the district is actually artificial and really does the players little good in the end.

 

[Keenan]

I'm sure they do as do all schools.So do you suggest they have a draft & each school in the district will get to pick certain players to bolster there squads?

 

[magpie4ever]

I'm sure they do as do all schools.So do you suggest they have a draft & each school in the district will get to pick certain players to bolster there squads?

Wrong

No, just be like a normal catholic school and have pupils from their normal catchment area. They will have some good years and some bad years in their league teams.

Tell me, does any player learn from winning a game 88-0; as Pats did against Farrer Ag School earlier in the GIO comp (and Farrer is not a joke as far as sports are concerned).

As said, it does no one no good and when suddenly they need to get into the trenches to win a game, they can't do it (because they have never been in that situation, before) and suddenly their weaknesses are exposed.

No one benefits from congregating all the talent into one school. As said their 2nd and 3rd sides would have probably pushed far into the GIO comp, if allowed.

St Pats are a disgrace to schoolboy league, as Newington and Scots are to schoolboy union.

 

[Keenan]

Then I wonder how you would feel about Keebra as a percentage of there squad are handed scholarships to kids from NZ.And then go onto the West Tigers,Broncos,Titans & Cowboys.

If given a chance to go to an elite football school,most kids & there parents would take up the opportunity.

 

[magpie4ever]

Then I wonder how you would feel about Keebra as a percentage of there squad are handed scholarships to kids from NZ.And then go onto the West Tigers,Broncos,Titans & Cowboys.

If given a chance to go to an elite football school,most kids & there parents would take up the opportunity.

First, let me say this is not a criticism of any boy (or their parents) but of the system.

Specialised Sports High Schools have been a spectacular failure in achieving their original mission statement:

• to increase the participation level of school students in organised sport and exercise activities at the grass root level
• improve the standard of athletics at the elite level

Organised sport/competitions in normal (non-sport) high schools has decreased dramatically since the advent of these specialised sport schools. Where competitions remain the standard has dropped substantially; physical activity (non-competitive) has also decreased. The education system has washed its hands of this specific requirement.

The standard of our elite sportspeople and sports has also dropped since the advent of these schools (around 15 years ago).

Examples:

• the standard of rugby union in Australia at a local, state and international is at its lowest level ever. We will be lucky to remain in the elite level of the sport and not become a 2nd tier nation, if the downhill slide continues.
• the standard of cricket in this country is at an all time low - how long has it been since a top line batsmen has been produced. Our young fast bowlers are unable to remain fit due to the interaction of HPU.
• most people would agree that the standard (and skill level) of players entering the NRL has decreased alarmingly. Just look at NYC games where defence is non-existent.

These are just a few examples.

So, for Pats (and another private schools) to mimic state sports high schools just adds to the problem.

Competition is the key to improvement across a sport, so when you reduce competition (ie: Pats beating Farrer Ag High 88 -0) you actually reduce the standard of the sport, in the long term.

As for Keebra, I know they have (and had for a number of years) a specialised rugby league program (therefore a major part of the problem). Given the high number of islander kids within the team I wrongly believed they were treking students down from Logan City to Southport. But, if as you say that there are students on scholarships from NZ then I would suggest this is bloody disgraceful. NZ is not a 3rd world country and should educate their own (in education and sport); the only scholarships, if any, that should be offered to overseas student should be academic - available to students from 3rd world countries; not bloody kiwis.

 

[Y2Eel]

First, let me say this is not a criticism of any boy (or their parents) but of the system.

Specialised Sports High Schools have been a spectacular failure in achieving their original mission statement:

• to increase the participation level of school students in organised sport and exercise activities at the grass root level
• improve the standard of athletics at the elite level

Organised sport/competitions in normal (non-sport) high schools has decreased dramatically since the advent of these specialised sport schools. Where competitions remain the standard has dropped substantially; physical activity (non-competitive) has also decreased. The education system has washed its hands of this specific requirement.

The standard of our elite sportspeople and sports has also dropped since the advent of these schools (around 15 years ago).

Examples:

• the standard of rugby union in Australia at a local, state and international is at its lowest level ever. We will be lucky to remain in the elite level of the sport and not become a 2nd tier nation, if the downhill slide continues.
• the standard of cricket in this country is at an all time low - how long has it been since a top line batsmen has been produced. Our young fast bowlers are unable to remain fit due to the interaction of HPU.
• most people would agree that the standard (and skill level) of players entering the NRL has decreased alarmingly. Just look at NYC games where defence is non-existent.

These are just a few examples.

So, for Pats (and another private schools) to mimic state sports high schools just adds to the problem.

Competition is the key to improvement across a sport, so when you reduce competition (ie: Pats beating Farrer Ag High 88 -0) you actually reduce the standard of the sport, in the long term.

As for Keebra, I know they have (and had for a number of years) a specialised rugby league program (therefore a major part of the problem). Given the high number of islander kids within the team I wrongly believed they were treking students down from Logan City to Southport. But, if as you say that there are students on scholarships from NZ then I would suggest this is bloody disgraceful. NZ is not a 3rd world country and should educate their own (in education and sport); the only scholarships, if any, that should be offered to overseas student should be academic - available to students from 3rd world countries; not bloody kiwis.

What did I just read??

You want schools to stop scouting out players?

You don't think that if more schools were like St Pats there would be a higher skill level and better players entering the Holden cup then onto first grade?

 

[magpie4ever]

What did I just read??

You want schools to stop scouting out players?

You don't think that if more schools were like St Pats there would be a higher skill level and better players entering the Holden cup then onto first grade?

Correct, as said it reduces widespread competition between schools (within zones and across regions) and competition leads to increase skill levels for everyone concerned.

Sport High Schools and St Pats have been running their league programs for well over a decade; do you see better players entering the NYC then onto the NRL?

 

[Y2Eel]

Correct, as said it reduces widespread competition between schools (within zones and across regions) and competition leads to increase skill levels for everyone concerned.

Sport High Schools and St Pats have been running their league programs for well over a decade; do you see better players entering the NYC then onto the NRL?

Thats a ridiculous comment the other schools need to catch up to the higher level school not bring the front schools down..

Over the past two seasons thete have been a few Parra and Penrith holden cup players come from those St Pats.. what happens from there is not in their control. .

 

[magpie4ever]

Thats a ridiculous comment the other schools need to catch up to the higher level school not bring the front schools down..

Over the past two seasons thete have been a few Parra and Penrith holden cup players come from those St Pats.. what happens from there is not in their control. .

Mate, you have no idea. As said, congregating all the talented players into one team or school does very little for the competitiveness of the game and the more competitive a comp is the more the players (especially in the 13 - 18 years old age group) actually learn and therefore improve their skills.

Tell me, what would have the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?

 

[Y2Eel]

Mate, you have no idea. As said, congregating all the talented players into one team or school does very little for the competitiveness of the game and the more competitive a comp is the more the players (especially in the 13 - 18 years old age group) actually learn and therefore improve their skills.

Tell me, what would have the players from St Pats and Farrer Ag College have learnt from the 88-0 flogging?

What would the Farrer players learn if they had the same setup(Facilities) as St Pats???

If all the Schools had a good footy setup there would be less blowouts.. Thats the issue not that St Pats have all the "Good" Players...

 

[magpie4ever]

What would the Farrer players learn if they had the same setup(Facilities) as St Pats???

If all the Schools had a good footy setup there would be less blowouts.. Thats the issue not that St Pats have all the "Good" Players...

I feel sorry for you, you obviously can't understand the points I have made. So it is pointless.

By the way, Farrer have a very good history of sporting achievements; except they don't buy all the local talented footballers in via scholarships.

Also, I'm not from Farrer. I have more links to Pats then Farrer.

You still have not answered the question: what would have the Patties boys have learnt from flogging another side 88-0?

 

[eelandia]

I think you should consider St Pats as an elite school, much like the GPS ones. You seem to be treating it as just another local high school. To deny a scholarship to a student who without football wouldn't be able to afford to go there is ridiculous.

Such a scholarship not only improves their football but also their chances for tertiary entry, compared to a school they may otherwise have to attend. Goes a long way on a resume too.

Sounds like you have been directly affected by someone missing out due to a player on a scholarship as your argument ignores many of the positives the scholarship system brings with it. Sure there is likely some politics in team selection, but there is more to a scholarship than the football it is attached to.

****

 

[magpie4ever]

I think you should consider St Pats as an elite school, much like the GPS ones. You seem to be treating it as just another local high school. To deny a scholarship to a student who without football wouldn't be able to afford to go there is ridiculous.

Such a scholarship not only improves their football but also their chances for tertiary entry, compared to a school they may otherwise have to attend. Goes a long way on a resume too.

Sounds like you have been directly affected by someone missing out due to a player on a scholarship as your argument ignores many of the positives the scholarship system brings with it. Sure there is likely some politics in team selection, but there is more to a scholarship than the football it is attached to.

****

You obviously don't know about the arms race (sports scholarships - which are outlawed by GPS rules, but certain schools still provided under the table) and its effect on the GPS rugby competition.

The recent results of such actions - two schools (Grammar and High) have dropped out of the comp and a 3rd (Shore) is on the verge of dropping out.

The competition has been reduced from 8 schools to 6 and now possibly 5; all as a result of the arms race.

Now look at the flow-on effect it has had on the sport, in general. The Wallabies are on the verge of becoming a 2nd tier nation.

Providing scholarships, in general, is a totally different subject - if they were provided to academic bright students from low income families who in normal circumstances could not afford to attend such a school then it would be hard to argue against. Remember schools are educational establishments not sport training centres. If they are for students based on their perceived football ability, regardless of their academic ability or family income; I suggest we have lost the plot.

I won't comment on your statement that St Pats is an elite school, I will let that go through to the keeper.

Fill me it again, what are the positives of scholarships based on perceived sporting ability?

 

[Vic Mackey]

I haven't seen any of the games this year. Does anyone think Marion Seve is a chance at first grade next year? They only have 2 centers in the top squad for 2014 and none of the 20s centers have been impressive this year.

 

[magpie4ever]

I haven't seen any of the games this year. Does anyone think Marion Seve is a chance at first grade next year? They only have 2 centers in the top squad for 2014 and none of the 20s centers have been impressive this year.

I have not, either. But, it would be a big call to promote a 18-19 year old into 1st grade. Although, the kid does have big wraps on him.