Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

That's great we agree on this! Given that they are maintaining ten clubs in the top flight in Melbourne and are looking at additional clubs elsewhere that logic alligns with what I've been advocating. Hope you see the logic as well. If you see the AFL as far more progressive then maybe you will seek not to implode the game in its most important city and have the competition exponentially expand elsewhere which should be the aim. The AFL are very aware of the established advantage longtime supported clubs with high recognition brings to a sport.

So who should be the 50th team in the NRL?

 

[Perth Red]

I have an opinion, its different to yours. Resorting to insulting people who have a different opinion to yours is a very uneducated response. Are you sure you're a teacher? Its not constant, its consistent. Look up the difference.

Anyways back to the topic which is what do the Bears do now? I think there is an important place for them in Sydney's RL fabric at the second division level, as there is for a number of clubs that can still be very relevant and important to grass root growth in Sydney and NSW.
One day we may see the emergence of a national second division of NRL with the top clubs from NSW and Qland and handful of expansion potentials playing in it, it could even have promotion and relegation to a third division of NSW and qland cup conferences.

 

[Perth Red]

So who should be the 50th team in the NRL?

We wont expand to 18, the chances of increasing the comp to include the 4 or 5 exciting potential expansion growth areas for the game in the NRL is zero to none

 

[Stallion]

So who should be the 50th team in the NRL?

Probably two conferences(10 to 12 teams per conference ) of equal footing. Perhaps a Sydney based conference ensuring plenty of local derbies and an outside of Sydney conference with the other cities. Each conference would have a home and away set up for teams within their group and then a singular game against teams in the other conference would apply. That would be a guide and this would be phased in over a reasonable time frame. One day Id like to see a 32 nation world cup. But thats a bit too constructive and positive for someone like yourself.

 

[Stallion]

I have an opinion, its different to yours. Resorting to insulting people who have a different opinion to yours is a very uneducated response. Are you sure you're a teacher? Its not constant, its consistent. Look up the difference.

Anyways back to the topic which is what do the Bears do now? I think there is an important place for them in Sydney's RL fabric at the second division level, as there is for a number of clubs that can still be very relevant and important to grass root growth in Sydney and NSW.
One day we may see the emergence of a national second division of NRL with the top clubs from NSW and Qland and handful of expansion potentials playing in it, it could even have promotion and relegation to a third division of NSW and qland cup conferences.

You are diabolical! Your opinions are shit in this sphere. They are ignorant, disrespectful, potentially damaging and lack positive business and sporting accumen. They are also culturally divisive! Yes your opinions are shite in this topic. I do concede you have merit elsewhere in the site with your opinions but as far as the disrespect and ignorance of the Sydney clubs, your opinion is shamefull and divisive. Not something I want or would contemplate for a code I admire and respect.

 

[Perth Red]

And back to the Bears......

 

[Stallion]

And back to the Bears......

A shameful and real live example of what happens to the code when a top flight club goes to a lower level. Juniors have decreased markedly. Followers have left the game and the negative overall message dominates neutral observers regard and actual fans downcast feel toward the code. For instance, I am so empathetic toward Norths Bears fans when I meet them. I often ask them would they follow rugby league again if the Bears came back as the Central Coast Bears and they have all said YES! Atm they do not follow the code.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

A shameful and real live example of what happens to the code when a top flight club goes to a lower level. Juniors have decreased markedly. Followers have left the game and the negative overall message dominates neutral observers regard and actual fans downcast feel toward the code. For instance, I am so empathetic toward Norths Bears fans when I meet them. I often ask them would they follow rugby league again if the Bears came back as the Central Coast Bears and they have all said YES! Atm they do not follow the code.

Of Those 5 bears fans you found, how often do you ask that same question?

 

[Stallion]

Of Those 5 bears fans you found, how often do you ask that same question?

That's were the destructionist people and the respectful advocates differ. Destructionists are of the belief that no damage occurs when an NRL club leaves the top flight. People like myself do believe damage to the code occurs. The difference being that we think the game can expand without losing its well known and respected clubs whereas the destructionist support culling existing club support /identities thinking its progress and after the damage is done denying it to continue their flippant regard for the origins of this elite competition which reside in the Sydney clubs.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

That's were the destructionist people and the respectful advocates differ. Destructionists are of the belief that no damage occurs when an NRl club leaves the top flight. People like myself do believe damage to the code occurs. The difference being that we think the game can expand without losing its well known and respected clubs whereas the destructionist support culling existing club support /identies thinking its progress and after the damage is there denying it to continue their flippant regard for the origins of this elite competition which reside in the Sydney clubs.

Haha Destructionists is a bit dramatic isn’t it? I can accept that it damaged the bears brand when the were punted from the Nrl but it was 10000yrs ago and there own woeful financial issues sealed there fate. Like I’ve said before, history doesn’t pay the bills, but it can help. It didn’t help the bears when they needed it.

Afl want to cull Melbourne clubs but can’t. Sydney have enough top flight clubs in the Nrl. I can not for the life of me see any possible reason for having more Sydney teams, I really can’t.

I think the elevation of the 2x 2nd tier comps and the financial incentives that it brings clubs involved like the bears will benefit In the long term. Unless a Sydney teams fails (which is very unlikely) the only chance the bears have is a relocation to Adelaide. If they can’t see that, it’s there own stupid fault.

 

[Stallion]

Haha Destructionists is a bit dramatic isn’t it? I can accept that it damaged the bears brand when the were punted from the Nrl but it was 10000yrs ago and there own woeful financial issues sealed there fate. Like I’ve said before, history doesn’t pay the bills, but it can help. It didn’t help the bears when they needed it.

Afl want to cull Melbourne clubs but can’t. Sydney have enough top flight clubs in the Nrl. I can not for the life of me see any possible reason for having more Sydney teams, I really can’t.

I think the elevation of the 2x 2nd tier comps and the financial incentives that it brings clubs involved like the bears will benefit In the long term. Unless a Sydney teams fails (which is very unlikely) the only chance the bears have is a relocation to Adelaide. If they can’t see that, it’s there own stupid fault.

The Bears were rifled by News ltd. From memory a News ltd employee took over as an administrator of the Bears and presided over amazing decisions like playing a home game at Lang park! If it were not for the ARL being arse jammed by News ltd when they should have maintained the existence of core clubs they agreed to carve up the competition to 14 teams! ? The Bears were and are popular! They were shafted like a number of other Sydney based ARL clubs. Right now their should be a twenty team comp but we see the code meandering aimlessly to no real purpose. The purpose should be genuine growth without imploding whats great about this competition.

 

[Perth Red]

Bears are never coming back to the nrl, so where does their future lie? As a vibrant second tier grass roots club hopefully. No reason for jnrs in NS to not be engaged by the Bears for playing* and one of the 9nrl clubs for supporting.

Bears were never that popular, in twenty years they got two years of decent crowds and the rest were sht.

 

[Stallion]

Bears are never coming back to the nrl, so where does their future lie? As a vibrant second tier grass roots club hopefully. No reason for jnrs in NS to not be engaged by the Bears for playing* and one of the 9nrl clubs for supporting.

Bears were never that popular, in twenty years they got two years of decent crowds and the rest were sht.

So you ignore/dismiss that the Bears actually drew good crowds and the longtime rivalries with other clubs like Manly and Balmain etc? Amazingly disrespectful! The fact a dodgy News Ltd administrator assisted in making the club look innept in a climate of eliminating clubs in Sydney has no 'bearing'(pardon the pun ). News ltd assisted in orchestrating the Bears demise and rugby league in northern Sydney is suffering as a result.

 

[Stallion]

I note you keep referring to Sydney having 9 NRL clubs. It's 8.5 clubs. A longtime club St George now is merged with Illawarra and Illawarra(Wollongong city) is one hour drive from Sydney ( about the same drive as Geelong from Melbourne)So if you refuse Geelong being part of ten teams based in greater Melbourne for AFL then half a club status for St George Illawarra should apply. Or factor in the Illawarra region population as Sydney numbers? Sydney itself has 8.5 NRL clubs in a city of 5million (2 AFL clubs also reside in Sydney)Melbourne has 9 AFL clubs in a city of 4million(1 NRL club resides in Melbourne) . Base your maths on those figures might be a start as you seek to weaken rugby league again and again in Sydney.

 

[taipan]

Of Those 5 bears fans you found, how often do you ask that same question?

Better still ask why AFL has grown so well in the North Sydney area, soccer and union holding its own to a degree,since the Bears were flicked.
Just a mere coincidence? Or because kids in that are don't have a local team to aspire?
Why would local volunteers be interested?
If they were all going to other NRL clubs, we wouldn't have crowd drops.
Ask South Sydney fans what they did when they were flicked, did they all troop over watching the Roosters or Tigers?

In my work I've met former Bears' fans ,some who gave the code away , or went to union, even a couple who went to the Swans.
Hell it even happened with joint venture teams .I know of three instances(2 with the Dragons and one with the Tigers) with people I know ,who couldn't handle the loss of their trad. club, despite it having some hold.

You can argue reasonably, but that's only a few.But the point is that's people I know of, a sample.The facts are Nth Sydney is less of a rl area,than it ever was.Do we blame global warming? Or Peter Hankiehead?

PR wouldn't have a clue (tucked away thousands of kms from reality)about the way people feel attached to their clubs in Sydney attendance wise,emotionally or traditionally.Just an armchair general throwing pins on maps, the maps of Perth.

There was a guy named Geoff Prenter( respected journalist and a rusted on rugby league man, who started Rugby League Week.When Super league came to fruition, he flicked the code, started following and still does ,the Swans.Only cursory interest in the game now.
Ask yourself why John Stanley(2UE) another Dragon's tragic, sprouts GWS more than he does the Dragons.

Rugby league has done its rationalisation, with 2 joint ventures, one flicked in Sydney.That therefor has affected more clubs here than Melbourne with their AFL relocations.

Continuing to whiteant your main base will bring the whole shebang crumbling, leaving the competition to pick up the pieces.

 

[Stallion]

Better still ask why AFL has grown so well in the North Sydney area, soccer and union holding its own to a degree,since the Bears were flicked.
Just a mere coincidence? Or because kids in that are don't have a local team to aspire?
Why would local volunteers be interested?
If they were all going to other NRL clubs, we wouldn't have crowd drops.
Ask South Sydney fans what they did when they were flicked, did they all troop over watching the Roosters or Tigers?

In my work I've met former Bears' fans ,some who gave the code away , or went to union, even a couple who went to the Swans.
Hell it even happened with joint venture teams .I know of three instances(2 with the Dragons and one with the Tigers) with people I know ,who couldn't handle the loss of their trad. club, despite it having some hold.

You can argue reasonably, but that's only a few.But the point is that's people I know of, a sample.The facts are Nth Sydney is less of a rl area,than it ever was.Do we blame global warming? Or Peter Hankiehead?

PR wouldn't have a clue (tucked away thousands of kms from reality)about the way people feel attached to their clubs in Sydney attendance wise,emotionally or traditionally.Just an armchair general throwing pins on maps, the maps of Perth.

There was a guy named Geoff Prenter( respected journalist and a rusted on rugby league man, who started Rugby League Week.When Super league came to fruition, he flicked the code, started following and still does ,the Swans.Only cursory interest in the game now.
Ask yourself why John Stanley(2UE) another Dragon's tragic, sprouts GWS more than he does the Dragons.

Rugby league has done its rationalisation, with 2 joint ventures, one flicked in Sydney.That therefor has affected more clubs here than Melbourne with their AFL relocations.

Continuing to whiteant your main base will bring the whole shebang crumbling, leaving the competition to pick up the pieces.

Well explained!
Yet this very frank description of something I've also encountered from people that support these clubs from outside of Sydney, is dismissed as 'just' a sample by those that don't understand local rivalries and their greater cultural effect. The growth in this code can be alligned with increased tv exposure with shows like 7s Big League etc. This gave these Sydney clubs Australia wide notoriety and recognition. That stuff is gold in marketing and is not easily replicated or replaced. By killing these clubs off is even worse! And yes dropping them to a lower level and mergering is killing them off in a big way or in some way. It's sad what is happening to this great code/competition. And it could be easily remedied by maintaining such significant clubs and and still have additional clubs for expansion. But no , lets rip it all apart and lose the advantage the code has over other aspiring codes in our own backyard! Shame on the "destructionists"!

 

[Perth Red]

I note you keep referring to Sydney having 9 NRL clubs. It's 8.5 clubs. A longtime club St George now is merged with Illawarra and Illawarra(Wollongong city) is one hour drive from Sydney ( about the same drive as Geelong from Melbourne)So if you refuse Geelong being part of ten teams based in greater Melbourne for AFL then half a club status for St George Illawarra should apply. Or factor in the Illawarra region population as Sydney numbers? Sydney itself has 8.5 NRL clubs in a city of 5million (2 AFL clubs also reside in Sydney)Melbourne has 9 AFL clubs in a city of 4million(1 NRL club resides in Melbourne) . Base your maths on those figures might be a start as you seek to weaken rugby league again and again in Sydney.

If your a RL fan in Sydney the St George is a club you can follow and go to games to watch locally. In terms of number of clubs sharing fanbase and corporate support it is 9 in Sydney. The fact one of them plays some games in the South is irrelevant to the fact St George are directly competing with the other 8 clubs in Sydney for a share of the market.

 

[Perth Red]

Out of interest how many AFL, RU and RL clubs are there in NS? How has say Blacktown remained a strong RL area despite never having an NRL team called the blacktown somethings? Its a myth that every Sydney suburb has to have a NRL team for RL to remain popular. Perth has 2 AFL teams for 100 hundred suburbs yet dominates every other sport massively. Grassroots funding, NRL presence from a close by team and strong NSWRL support through a NSW cup set up with elite pathways is what is required. I can pretty much guarantee that 10 year old kids have no interest if the Bears exist in the NRL or not, most of them will be playing RL at school or locally and following one of the other 16 NRL clubs if they are into RL. If they are not into RL you have to ask why when NS does not have any other professional club called the NS somethings.

My neighbours sons are a great example of how kids switch around, dad is staunch AFL fan and for last few years kids have grown up supporting AFL and kicking around an afl ball. Last year they both got into soccer because of school and are now both walking around in EPL shirts and kicking a soccer ball. Such is the fickleness of youth lol

 

[Perth Red]

So you ignore/dismiss that the Bears actually drew good crowds and the longtime rivalries with other clubs like Manly and Balmain etc?.

2 years in 20 lol that's hardly a recipe for success! Majority of their crowds in those 20 years were sub 11k!! There's a good reason they had to relocate and eventually got relegated, they didn't have the money,relevance or the fanbase to survive. Not unlike some clubs now unless they get their sht together in next few years Id suggest. There's only so long the NRL can keep treading water and propping up failing clubs whilst holding back growth.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Cmon guys.. clearly an Englishman living in Perth is the best authority to lecture us all about Sydney sporting interests....

He probably visits at least once every two years...