Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Perth Red]

Cmon guys.. clearly an Englishman living in Perth is the best authority to lecture us all about Sydney sporting interests....

He probably visits at least once every two years...

An interesting observation

 

[Stallion]

Cmon guys.. clearly an Englishman living in Perth is the best authority to lecture us all about Sydney sporting interests....

He probably visits at least once every two years...

Fair call. His consistent ignorance does show an extreme shallowness of the way things work in Sydney. I spose its school holidays and we have time to waste on this ignoramus. And he has proven his ignorance repeatedly. So it's no insult. It's a well earnt and accurate tag for PR. Thanks to other guys warning me of PR's relentless attack on the game in Sydney but gee wiz it's so consistently dumb!

 

[Stallion]

Out of interest how many AFL, RU and RL clubs are there in NS? How has say Blacktown remained a strong RL area despite never having an NRL team called the blacktown somethings? Its a myth that every Sydney suburb has to have a NRL team for RL to remain popular. Perth has 2 AFL teams for 100 hundred suburbs yet dominates every other sport massively. Grassroots funding, NRL presence from a close by team and strong NSWRL support through a NSW cup set up with elite pathways is what is required. I can pretty much guarantee that 10 year old kids have no interest if the Bears exist in the NRL or not, most of them will be playing RL at school or locally and following one of the other 16 NRL clubs if they are into RL. If they are not into RL you have to ask why when NS does not have any other professional club called the NS somethings.

My neighbours sons are a great example of how kids switch around, dad is staunch AFL fan and for last few years kids have grown up supporting AFL and kicking around an afl ball. Last year they both got into soccer because of school and are now both walking around in EPL shirts and kicking a soccer ball. Such is the fickleness of youth lol

It's the parents that have a big say you dummy! You disenfranchise them you lose a kid to another sport! You just can't figure it out can you?! People have given you anecdotal, real life examples and you still refute what's going on!? Amazing!

 

[taipan]

Out of interest how many AFL, RU and RL clubs are there in NS? How has say Blacktown remained a strong RL area despite never having an NRL team called the blacktown somethings? Its a myth that every Sydney suburb has to have a NRL team for RL to remain popular. Perth has 2 AFL teams for 100 hundred suburbs yet dominates every other sport massively. Grassroots funding, NRL presence from a close by team and strong NSWRL support through a NSW cup set up with elite pathways is what is required. I can pretty much guarantee that 10 year old kids have no interest if the Bears exist in the NRL or not, most of them will be playing RL at school or locally and following one of the other 16 NRL clubs if they are into RL. If they are not into RL you have to ask why when NS does not have any other professional club called the NS somethings.

My neighbours sons are a great example of how kids switch around, dad is staunch AFL fan and for last few years kids have grown up supporting AFL and kicking around an afl ball. Last year they both got into soccer because of school and are now both walking around in EPL shirts and kicking a soccer ball. Such is the fickleness of youth lol

A load of codswallop.
You still don't get it.Blacktown has never had an ARL/SL or NRL club to start with.It's called precedent an established 1st grade club over the years and building a following ,tradition, empathy ,a club for kids to aspire.Show me the Premier club in Blacktown.Penrith and Parramatta have teams.

You don't understand:
1) There are the old fans ,down to middle age who are the fathers /grandfathers in the NS area.who encourage their kids to join the local juniors. or who may volunteer to assist with coaching or managing junior teams.Their team is taken away like a tidal wave.No team.Do they say to their kids oh well we'll sign you up with the Sea Eagles juniors or the West tigers ,or isn it just plain easier for them to play union because its a tackle sport, soccer because mummy stay so, or AFL who have no qualms in spending million upon million in the area to show they car.

2)North Sydney covers a huge area, it is in reality almost a rl wasteland.You have zero idea about the geography, demographics,trasport situation on a daily basis in Sydney.

3) when the joint ventures came into being did they double their crowds in totality, compared to individually.?The answer is no.

4( 5 Sydney clubs have been rebranded or lost in the cause of rationalisation.Yet Sydney crowds have fallen.Does anyone with half a brain insist removing, combining clubs whilst they are financial, is going to boost crowds.The AFL would be licking their lips in anticipation.

5) You cite an example in Perth where AFL dominates ,they have stuff all opposition from other codes, so they lose a kid here or there,and it has stuff all impact.
In Sydney we have 2 AFL clubs whose admin throws money around like confetti,2 A league teams(in a city where soccer has a huge base) and a Super blooper team called the Tahs.

Youth is indeed fickle ,but the parents in the end are the ones in the majority of cases ,who decide ,what who, when and where they play.And losing their fave local NRL team is going to ensure ,they chase greener pastures.

 

[Stallion]

A load of codswallop.
You still don't get it.Blacktown has never had an ARL/SL or NRL club to start with.It's called precedent an established 1st grade club over the years and building a following ,tradition, empathy ,a club for kids to aspire.Show me the Premier club in Blacktown.Penrith and Parramatta have teams.

You don't understand:
1) There are the old fans ,down to middle age who are the fathers /grandfathers in the NS area.who encourage their kids to join the local juniors. or who may volunteer to assist with coaching or managing junior teams.Their team is taken away like a tidal wave.No team.Do they say to their kids oh well we'll sign you up with the Sea Eagles juniors or the West tigers ,or isn it just plain easier for them to play union because its a tackle sport, soccer because mummy stay so, or AFL who have no qualms in spending million upon million in the area to show they car.

2)North Sydney covers a huge area, it is in reality almost a rl wasteland.You have zero idea about the geography, demographics,trasport situation on a daily basis in Sydney.

3) when the joint ventures came into being did they double their crowds in totality, compared to individually.?The answer is no.

4( 5 Sydney clubs have been rebranded or lost in the cause of rationalisation.Yet Sydney crowds have fallen.Does anyone with half a brain insist removing, combining clubs whilst they are financial, is going to boost crowds.The AFL would be licking their lips in anticipation.

5) You cite an example in Perth where AFL dominates ,they have stuff all opposition from other codes, so they lose a kid here or there,and it has stuff all impact.
In Sydney we have 2 AFL clubs whose admin throws money around like confetti,2 A league teams(in a city where soccer has a huge base) and a Super blooper team called the Tahs.

Youth is indeed fickle ,but the parents in the end are the ones in the majority of cases ,who decide ,what who, when and where they play.And losing their fave local NRL team is going to ensure ,they chase greener pastures.

Another comprehensive explanation of the way it is for sport/RL in Sydney! PR will refute it which is his failure. It's incredible that the penny doesn't drop with these guys that want to dilute/weaken rugbyleague in Sydney. It's the largest city in the world that has rugby league as its main sport! And these lunatics want to destroy this status for the code in Sydney. Yhey are reckless, ignorant and damaging toward rugbyleague and how things work.

 

[Perth Red]

Its confusing, when AFL or media bleat about how they are taking over Sydney, fans say they are totally irrelevant and have no presence there. Then when we talk about reducing Sydney over saturation to allow for room for the NRL to grow we hear that AFL has taken over NS and will do so if we reduce clubs. Which is it?

I don't subscribe to the; there's a team there so has to be there one for ever more or the area will die. There is enough evidence to show that it isn't the case long term as long as a strategy and other interventions are put in place.

But we will never agree so I'll leave it there as I'm bored with going round in circles with selfish NSW people who are happy to see the games growth stunted to maintain the status qou

 

[Stallion]

Its confusing, when AFL or media bleat about how they are taking over Sydney, fans say they are totally irrelevant and have no presence there. Then when we talk about reducing Sydney over saturation to allow for room for the NRL to grow we hear that AFL has taken over NS and will do so if we reduce clubs. Which is it?

I don't subscribe to the; there's a team there so has to be there one for ever more or the area will die. There is enough evidence to show that it isn't the case long term as long as a strategy and other interventions are put in place.

But we will never agree so I'll leave it there as I'm bored with going round in circles with selfish NSW people who are happy to see the games growth stunted to maintain the status qou

Laughable yet predictable response. You choose not to believe the information of what is truelly happening in various parts of Sydney,particularly North Sydney. This decline in rugby league is happening in Sydney and you question the annecdotal information from people whom live in Sydney and live outside of Sydney. Your desired outcome ignores the realities that you have been privy to and the outcome you support would give more advantages to other codes . We also support expansion but not expansion with implosion! We support exponential expansion of rugby league through additional clubs in growth/expansion areas. Pretty poor form PR!

 

[taipan]

Its confusing, when AFL or media bleat about how they are taking over Sydney, fans say they are totally irrelevant and have no presence there. Then when we talk about reducing Sydney over saturation to allow for room for the NRL to grow we hear that AFL has taken over NS and will do so if we reduce clubs. Which is it?

I don't subscribe to the; there's a team there so has to be there one for ever more or the area will die. There is enough evidence to show that it isn't the case long term as long as a strategy and other interventions are put in place.

But we will never agree so I'll leave it there as I'm bored with going round in circles with selfish NSW people who are happy to see the games growth stunted to maintain the status qou

The situation in Nth Sydney has been an on going issue, ever since they were flicked.Any one with a clue knows the presence of AFL in Nth Sydney area, and the erosion of rl in that area.

Other areas like Western Sydney with NRL teams, and decent junior bases, of course are not living in fear.
Then situation is ,no more teams to be removed in Sydney,unless one is in deep financial trouble.

And I don't subscribe to whiteanting your base ,just to put pins on maps.Even the AFL realises that now.I mean what would they know.
And I'm bore witless debating with people who have not a clue as to what has happened ,is happening in Sydney,with regard to rl grassroots and support in areas.

 

[Stallion]

The situation in Nth Sydney has been an on going issue, ever since they were flicked.Any one with a clue knows the presence of AFL in Nth Sydney area, and the erosion of rl in that area.

Other areas like Western Sydney with NRL teams, and decent junior bases, of course are not living in fear.
Then situation is ,no more teams to be removed in Sydney,unless one is in deep financial trouble.

And I don't subscribe to whiteanting your base ,just to put pins on maps.Even the AFL realises that now.I mean what would they know.
And I'm bore witless debating with people who have not a clue as to what has happened ,is happening in Sydney,with regard to rl grassroots and support in areas.

And the pins can be put on maps without white anting!

 

[T-Boon]

Perth Pins?

 

[taipan]

And the pins can be put on maps without white anting!

I know where some of the pins ,should be inserted.And it's painful.

 

[CC_Roosters]

The situation in Nth Sydney has been an on going issue, ever since they were flicked.Any one with a clue knows the presence of AFL in Nth Sydney area, and the erosion of rl in that area.

Other areas like Western Sydney with NRL teams, and decent junior bases, of course are not living in fear.
Then situation is ,no more teams to be removed in Sydney,unless one is in deep financial trouble.

And I don't subscribe to whiteanting your base ,just to put pins on maps.Even the AFL realises that now.I mean what would they know.
And I'm bore witless debating with people who have not a clue as to what has happened ,is happening in Sydney,with regard to rl grassroots and support in areas.

Wouldnt North sydney just be described as a multi sport area more than any one sport dominating?

I am still of the opinion a meaningful national second division I.e. Nrl premiership/championship with promotion/relegation is the silver bullet to answer the scheduling, player workload and expansion questions.

 

[Stallion]

Wouldnt North sydney just be described as a multi sport area more than any one sport dominating?

I am still of the opinion a meaningful national second division I.e. Nrl premiership/championship with promotion/relegation is the silver bullet to answer the scheduling, player workload and expansion questions.

A promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan region is a worthy idea. As the clubs can re enter the top flight which gives fans hope. I suggest ten clubs within the metropolitan area have top flight status with a struggling club relegated and an aspiring club meeting a competitive criteria with backing be promoted from the next level competition of that Sydney region . Outside of Sydney is different as the wide expanse of the other clubs necessitate permanency for such clubs. For instance, if say North Queensland Cowboys were in a relegation scenario their would be no top flight representation for the code in that region. As a result the code would suffer.
So a conference with promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan area has credence. This with another grouping of a ten club participation conference for clubs that have distance isolation factors at play. This is for clubs outside of Sydney.
This is not to say that promotion and relegation for all NRL clubs is not achievable provided two clubs in each participating city/region has been established. This would/may apply way into the future as the game consolidates and grows in isolated 'expansion ' areas. For the foreseeable future only the Sydney metropolitan area would have promotion and relegation. An added bonus to this is that aspiring lower level clubs like Newtown, North Sydney, Balmain etc are given a chance for top flight representation whereas they have no chance as for the current set up. The increased interest will hopefully entice other areas to get involved in the lower level Sydney rugby league competition with possible NRL status being a strong motivation. If implemented properly the code would see exponential growth within the greater Sydney metropolitan area as time goes on.

 

[CC_Roosters]

A promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan region is a worthy idea. As the clubs can re enter the top flight which gives fans hope. I suggest ten clubs within the metropolitan area have top flight status with a struggling club relegated and an aspiring club meeting a competitive criteria with backing be promoted from the next level competition of that Sydney region . Outside of Sydney is different as the wide expanse of the other clubs necessitate permanency for such clubs. For instance, if say North Queensland Cowboys were in a relegation scenario their would be no top flight representation for the code in that region. As a result the code would suffer.
So a conference with promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan area has credence. This with another grouping of a ten club participation conference for clubs that have distance isolation factors at play. This is for clubs outside of Sydney.
This is not to say that promotion and relegation for all NRL clubs is not achievable provided two clubs in each participating city/region has been established. This would/may apply way into the future as the game consolidates and grows in isolated 'expansion ' areas. For the foreseeable future only the Sydney metropolitan area would have promotion and relegation. An added bonus to this is that aspiring lower level clubs like Newtown, North Sydney, Balmain etc are given a chance for top flight representation whereas they have no chance as for the current set up. The increased interest will hopefully entice other areas to get involved in the lower level Sydney rugby league competition with possible NRL status being a strong motivation. If implemented properly the code would see exponential growth within the greater Sydney metropolitan area as time goes on.

I would keep it as simple as two linear divisions without any geographic conferencing and always ensures the best clubs at any given time are playing in the top division. My idea would be

Year 1- NRL premiership 16 clubs as is, announce tender process for 6 teams to join NRL championship (starts year 2); entry criteria around stadia, juniors, geography, financials, historic....
Year 2- NRL premiership 16 clubs as is, bottom 2 this year to be relegated to championship. 6 successful teams play first year of championship, home and away round robin to find their feet
Year 3- NRL premiership 14 clubs, bottom 2 this year to be relegated to champ. 8 teams play double round robin in champ, no promotion
Year 4- NRL premiership 12 clubs, bottom club relgated to championship as standard format from this year on. 10 teams in championsip, winner promoted annually.

We end up with-
NRL premiership 12 teams
NRL championship 10 teams

Thats 11 professional games per week, player friendly, new and old supporters activated and the professional footprint of the game maximised to ensure juniors nationwide are captured. The likes of North Sydney can move up and down as their fortunes on and off the field dictate so we eliminate the need for dumping clubs to satisfy a fixed structure with no relief valve except the scrap heap or park football.

 

[Stallion]

I would keep it as simple as two linear divisions without any geographic conferencing and always ensures the best clubs at any given time are playing in the top division. My idea would be

Year 1- NRL premiership 16 clubs as is, announce tender process for 6 teams to join NRL championship (starts year 2); entry criteria around stadia, juniors, geography, financials, historic....
Year 2- NRL premiership 16 clubs as is, bottom 2 this year to be relegated to championship. 6 successful teams play first year of championship, home and away round robin to find their feet
Year 3- NRL premiership 14 clubs, bottom 2 this year to be relegated to champ. 8 teams play double round robin in champ, no promotion
Year 4- NRL premiership 12 clubs, bottom club relgated to championship as standard format from this year on. 10 teams in championsip, winner promoted annually.

We end up with-
NRL premiership 12 teams
NRL championship 10 teams

Thats 11 professional games per week, player friendly, new and old supporters activated and the professional footprint of the game maximised to ensure juniors nationwide are captured. The likes of North Sydney can move up and down as their fortunes on and off the field dictate so we eliminate the need for dumping clubs to satisfy a fixed structure with no relief valve except the scrap heap or park football.

Disastrous consequences for the code. Conferences need to be of equal standing or you would see a genuine decline in the code if that is not case. Imagine supporting a team and then their lower status is brought up? Game over as far as the chat in the pub about your team! And that's the least of the problems for the '2nd' rate team. A whole range of problems relating to sponsorship, fan base support and national recognition arise with being in the lower division.
You dismiss the geographical based conference idea very quickly despite it maintaining club status and strengthening the code in an exponential way.

 

[taipan]

Wouldnt North sydney just be described as a multi sport area more than any one sport dominating?

I am still of the opinion a meaningful national second division I.e. Nrl premiership/championship with promotion/relegation is the silver bullet to answer the scheduling, player workload and expansion questions.

It would be considered a multi sport area now ,with just a token rugby league presence.That was not the case when the Bears had "hair" in there.

 

[Perth Red]

It would be considered a multi sport area now ,with just a token rugby league presence. That was not the case when the Bears had "hair" in there.

Token?
RL: HM Ball team, SG Ball Team, Under 20's team, Intrust Super Premiership team, 8 jnr clubs (2 new ones 2012 & 2015)
The running of District Junior Development Teams in the under 13’s, under 14’s and under 15’s age groups

 

[Perth Red]

Disastrous consequences for the code. Conferences need to be of equal standing or you would see a genuine decline in the code if that is not case. Imagine supporting a team and then their lower status is brought up? Game over as far as the chat in the pub about your team! And that's the least of the problems for the '2nd' rate team. A whole range of problems relating to sponsorship, fan base support and national recognition arise with being in the lower division.
You dismiss the geographical based conference idea very quickly despite it maintaining club status and strengthening the code in an exponential way.

Your Sydney two division conference has merit but the existing NRL clubs would NEVER allow it. P&R sounds good in principle but it is fraught with problems. Clubs going down face the real risk of financial collapse as funding drops 75%, clubs going up scramble around trying to sign any player available that late in the season, fans disappear quicker than Jarryd Hayne when a club gets relegated (kudos to the Hull KR fans who didn't last year in SL though!), creation of yoyo teams that bounce up and down year on year as they are unable to build sustainable squads or finances. It works in UK soccer as there is massive money and massive player pools to dip into. It doesn't work well in RL in UK as we have seen numerous times.

 

[Stallion]

Your Sydney two division conference has merit but the existing NRL clubs would NEVER allow it. P&R sounds good in principle but it is fraught with problems. Clubs going down face the real risk of financial collapse as funding drops 75%, clubs going up scramble around trying to sign any player available that late in the season, fans disappear quicker than Jarryd Hayne when a club gets relegated (kudos to the Hull KR fans who didn't last year in SL though!), creation of yoyo teams that bounce up and down year on year as they are unable to build sustainable squads or finances. It works in UK soccer as there is massive money and massive player pools to dip into. It doesn't work well in RL in UK as we have seen numerous times.

Rugby league is or was number one in Sydney/OZ. The profile of the Sydney clubs are massive. Given determined and considered planning and effort , promotion and relegation would work in Sydney. It's better than the slash and burn option when push comes to shove!? Otherwise a weakening of the code will continue as being witnessed. The fans would rather be given the chance for their club to come back than be finished in the lower level.comp forever. You would see a strengthening and relevance of the lower level competition as it is a genuine path to the top flight. With some positiveplanning and commitment its a decent option fir the code in Sydney. BTW. The 8 junior clubs were twenty odd junior clubs when the Bears were in the top flight. The drop in the Asquith player numbers are fact. So please don't discredit the information Taipan gave. It's fact and its very relevant.

 

[Perth Red]

The 8 junior clubs were twenty odd junior clubs when the Bears were in the top flight. The drop in the Asquith player numbers are fact. So please don't discredit the information Taipan gave. It's fact and its very relevant.

I've been trying to find a reference to Jnr club numbers in NS region in mid 90's, do you have one?