Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Stallion]

Agreed, it needs a major marketing campaign aimed at parents espousing the virtues of the game and the qualities it develops in kids. As an example they should have taken some of the amazing footage from the RLWC of players embracing, fans celebrating together, cultures being respected and honoured etc and spliced it with some kids footage to show what RL is really about.

Sadly every merkin NRL player who fcks up sets this back light years.

Playing experiences like the achievement of a tackle are not emphasised in current junior league marketing adverts. The tackle aspect sets rugby league apart from the other codes. A far more inclusive code is another aspect undersold. Their are significantly more opportunities to achieve a contact tackle and run with the ball then other rugby type codes such union or gridiron or even AFL etc. I've also been told that because of the bigger field dimensions many kids trying AFL hardly touch the ball as the play may only go to certain pockets on the field. Rugby league allows the major aspects of the game (tackling and running with the ball) to be enjoyed by all. Something not highlighted by RLdevelopment people or RL blurbs.

 

[Stallion]

Touch addresses this and in all likelihood with the way society is going will be the main form of RL in the future with just a few players who like the physical stuff left in full contact. NRL knows this, its why they are paying millions to be co branded with touch. Maybe we should start readjusting our measurements of Jnr reach to include touch given this is and will increasingly be the main for of RL played by kids?

There are many many reasons why less kids play RL now, some can be addressed by better funding and better systems, others cant such as societies risk aversion and general lack of kids playing tough sports these days.

Don't agree with the AFL v RL spend comment. My experience is kids take up a sport for a number of reasons
1. Availability - is it played near by or at school
2. Fandom - Kids love worshipping star players. The bigger the profile of the star the more likely the kid will want to emulate them in that sport
3. Peers - kids play what their mates play
4. Profile - the higher profile a sport has the more likely kids will want to play it
5. Parent pressure - Usually only up to around 10 or 11 then the kid wants to pay what they want to play
6. Ability- Kids will want to play what they are good at because they enjoy success. In RL by time you hit 8 or 9 the physicality of the game starts to kick in and there is a self selection for kids who like the rough stuff and those who don't who will drift off to soccer or lessor degree AFL.

Very multi faceted and only some things the NRL can do to improve in some areas.

Agree with much of what you have commented on. One important aspect that has been lost with touch football is the basic and fundamental rule of playing the ball with the foot. This was an original touch footy rule and should be reintroduced as plenty of players with poor discipline reflected in play the balls have increased in rugby league. The dump and run mentality featured in current touch football goes against the fundametal ruck rules of rugby league and the original form of the touch footy which was 'tippy league'. If the touch football people could revisit the play the ball with the foot rule that would do rugby league immense favours going forward. And add a more fun dimension around the ruck experience that has been lost in touch football as of recent years.

 

[T-Boon]

Playing experiences like the achievement of a tackle are not emphasised in current junior league marketing adverts.

The achievement aspect of completing a tackle is a positive as you say but it would be wrong to ignore that the flip side of that is that for a kid, making a tackle is a test of courage precicilly due to the possible dangers and risks of injury and pain inherent in a tackle. THAT is what the mum sees and worries about. She can teach her son courage some other way thank you very much.
When you see the NRL skill players getting run at 15 times a game by a guy like Taumolala the game bleeds participants at the junior level.
We need to find a way to get forwards playing against forward and backs playing against backs as the game was designed. Or, we should have positions on the field (dummy half, half, five eight) where the player can be interchanged out of the game in defense so that dont have to tackle.

 

[T-Boon]

Touch addresses this and in all likelihood with the way society is going will be the main form of RL in the future with just a few players who like the physical stuff left in full contact. NRL knows this, its why they are paying millions to be co branded with touch.

I read an article the other day that the reason AFL (and then NRL) got motivated about womens comps is that a study was done saying if you play a sport you are 6 times more likely to watch that sport on TV or at the ground.

If that is the case then in addition to WNRL the NRL needs to forge much closer links with Touch because those Touch numbers are huge with all genders. The NRL should be working with Touch Football to get a competition going where the NRL stars play in a team with the men and womens Touch Footy stars. A mixed comp. With a draft etc. It would only have to go for 4 or 5 weeks in the pre season. Get it on TV.

When the annual Elite 8s Touch Footy is on at Coffs Harbour each year the NRL players should be there in big numbers maybe have an NRL game played there the same weekend.

 

[Stallion]

The achievement aspect of completing a tackle is a positive as you say but it would be wrong to ignore that the flip side of that is that for a kid, making a tackle is a test of courage precicilly due to the possible dangers and risks of injury and pain inherent in a tackle. THAT is what the mum sees and worries about. She can teach her son courage some other way thank you very much.
When you see the NRL skill players getting run at 15 times a game by a guy like Taumolala the game bleeds participants at the junior level.
We need to find a way to get forwards playing against forward and backs playing against backs as the game was designed. Or, we should have positions on the field (dummy half, half, five eight) where the player can be interchanged out of the game in defense so that dont have to tackle.

Understand the danger aspect from the mums point of view. That's why the tackle needs to be highlighted and embraced as a skill. You can't hide it. And kids I teach at school have an admiration of Taumalolo and like players which is another attraction for this football code which is clearly the most physical of all football codes. Alot of the kids are not aware or recognise RL as the most physical of all the codes which has shocked yours truelly. Quite often, I would ask the kids to count the amount of tackles made in a RL match and take into account their is a ten metre momentum lead up into many tackles and the penny drops. From this information the low regard for RL is changed and its badge of honour and respect is regained /gained with such kids that would know no better beforehand.

 

[Stallion]

I read an article the other day that the reason AFL (and then NRL) got motivated about womens comps is that a study was done saying if you play a sport you are 6 times more likely to watch that sport on TV or at the ground.

If that is the case then in addition to WNRL the NRL needs to forge much closer links with Touch because those Touch numbers are huge with all genders. The NRL should be working with Touch Football to get a competition going where the NRL stars play in a team with the men and womens Touch Footy stars. A mixed comp. With a draft etc. It would only have to go for 4 or 5 weeks in the pre season. Get it on TV.

When the annual Elite 8s Touch Footy is on at Coffs Harbour each year the NRL players should be there in big numbers maybe have an NRL game played there the same weekend.

Great idea. Get touch using the play the ball with foot rule and it's worth it. Atm the 'dump and run' play at the ruck to end a play is not doing any favours for touch or rugby league!

 

[T-Boon]

Great idea. Get touch using the play the ball with foot rule and its worth it. Atm the dump and run play at the ruck after a play is not doing any favours for touch or rugby league!

I agree re dump and run. But I think it appeals to the Touch Footy code because they want it to remain fast and about fitness and in addition that is an aspect that women can do in the mixed Touch Footy with reasonable effectiveness. They also love that play where the person playing the ball stays "alive" as a receiver. That play looks cool and I think would be more difficult if they brought in RL play the ball rules.
I think overall to most people the game of Touch as it is is clearly Touch RL.

 

[Stallion]

I agree re dump and run. But I think it appeals to the Touch Footy code because they want it to remain fast and about fitness and in addition that is an aspect that women can do in the mixed Touch Footy with reasonable effectiveness. They also love that play where the person playing the ball stays "alive" as a receiver. That play looks cool and I think would be more difficult if they brought in RL play the ball rules.
I think overall to most people the game of Touch as it is is clearly Touch RL.

I'd suggest the dump and run action is more similar to a rugby union type ruck action than the original RL version. Many subtle plays around the ruck are lost through the dump and run play. The game of touch footy was athletic enough without the dump and run. It was also more of a game of guile and lateral movement near the play the ball which has been lost as a result of dump and run. The popularity of tag can be linked to the play the ball with foot being used. It's a fundamental part of the code that should not be lost in any version. The option of kicking on any tackle is also attractive in tag. Something that touch should look at along with revisiting the play the ball with a foot rule.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

A promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan region is a worthy idea. As the clubs can re enter the top flight which gives fans hope. I suggest ten clubs within the metropolitan area have top flight status with a struggling club relegated and an aspiring club meeting a competitive criteria with backing be promoted from the next level competition of that Sydney region . Outside of Sydney is different as the wide expanse of the other clubs necessitate permanency for such clubs. For instance, if say North Queensland Cowboys were in a relegation scenario their would be no top flight representation for the code in that region. As a result the code would suffer.
So a conference with promotion and relegation for the Sydney metropolitan area has credence. This with another grouping of a ten club participation conference for clubs that have distance isolation factors at play. This is for clubs outside of Sydney.
This is not to say that promotion and relegation for all NRL clubs is not achievable provided two clubs in each participating city/region has been established. This would/may apply way into the future as the game consolidates and grows in isolated 'expansion ' areas. For the foreseeable future only the Sydney metropolitan area would have promotion and relegation. An added bonus to this is that aspiring lower level clubs like Newtown, North Sydney, Balmain etc are given a chance for top flight representation whereas they have no chance as for the current set up. The increased interest will hopefully entice other areas to get involved in the lower level Sydney rugby league competition with possible NRL status being a strong motivation. If implemented properly the code would see exponential growth within the greater Sydney metropolitan area as time goes on.

I like this idea mate! I guess in the years that no Sydney clubs finish in the bottom two, then there is no promotion that year. But the efforts of the top Sydney club in the second division shouldn't be wasted. They could run a rankings system until a year comes around that promotion is up for grabs. This would apply in the following scenario:

North Sydney Bears win the second division (NSW Cup or NRL 2, whichever we end up with) five years in a row, but during those five years, no Sydney club fell into the relegation zone at NRL level. In the sixth year, Newtown happen to win when there is a Sydney club that has finished in the relegation zone after the Jets finished mid-table for the previous five seasons. My argument would be that North Sydney would win promotion because of ranking points over that period and not just because Newtown got lucky and won the premiership the year that promotion was also a possibility.

Once promotion has been earnt by North Sydney, the rankings points reset to zero for all Sydney based second division clubs and we start again - promotion could be the very next year or it could be in ten years, no one knows, but the rankings continue until promotion is up for grabs to reward consistency in the second teir.

 

[Stallion]

I like this idea mate! I guess in the years that no Sydney clubs finish in the bottom two, then there is no promotion that year. But the efforts of the top Sydney club in the second division shouldn't be wasted. They could run a rankings system until a year comes around that promotion is up for grabs. This would apply in the following scenario:

North Sydney Bears win the second division (NSW Cup or NRL 2, whichever we end up with) five years in a row, but during those five years, no Sydney club fell into the relegation zone at NRL level. In the sixth year, Newtown happen to win when there is a Sydney club that has finished in the relegation zone after the Jets finished mid-table for the previous five seasons. My argument would be that North Sydney would win promotion because of ranking points over that period and not just because Newtown got lucky and won the premiership the year that promotion was also a possibility.

Once promotion has been earnt by North Sydney, the rankings points reset to zero for all Sydney based second division clubs and we start again - promotion could be the very next year or it could be in ten years, no one knows, but the rankings continue until promotion is up for grabs to reward consistency in the second teir.

Thanks! Yep. And alot of other clubs could well be created like a Campbelltown club. Other clubs can regain their lost identity like Balmain and Wests (Wests may be offered a franchise in WA? Who knows! ) perhaps a Central Coast team in their own right? Not sure what connections clubs like Wentworthville etc have but I suppose things would be sorted if their is direction and a will to do so?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I like P&R, but basing it on on-field performance is just dumb...

Base it on membership, or attendance (involve the fans and make them accountable) and crowds would sky-rocket.

If its is based on who has a bad year, you rick losing popular teams and bringing in shit.

Plus, it would give grumpy fans a positive avenue to rebel agaisnt whatever. Rather than boycotts, they can channel their energy into a new club...

 

[Stallion]

I like P&R, but basing it on on-field performance is just dumb...

Base it on membership, or attendance (involve the fans and make them accountable) and crowds would sky-rocket.

If its is based on who has a bad year, you rick losing popular teams and bringing in shit.

Plus, it would give grumpy fans a positive avenue to rebel agaisnt whatever. Rather than boycotts, they can channel their energy into a new club...

The P & R is specifically for the Sydney clubs. Outside of Sydney clubs have a distance isolation issue which negates P & R occuring until another top flight club is positioned in that city or area. P& R may apply to both "conferences" for want of a better term when a club is not isolated distance wise. Reason being if for instance The Cowboys get relegated then their is no top flight representation of the code in that area. This will damage the game in that area.

 

[Perth Red]

How do you think clubs on $4million will compete with clubs on $20million? Clubs relegated would be stripped and clubs promoted would be desperately scrambling around trying to pick up talent.

 

[mave]

Its not hard to see why Roosters have linked with CC. CC Jnr district has 16 Junior clubs. What's impressive is how big a presence the Roosters have on the CC RL website, serious co branding going on. Would indicate they are serious about making CC part of Roosters make up.

https://www.centralcoastrugbyleague.com.au/

The Roosters are fantastic on the CC.

 

[mave]

And on the whole "mums don't want to see little Johnny trampled by Sherman tanks"...teach little Johnny proper tackling techniques and he won't likely get injured.

Kids get hurt all the time due to poor technique. Head on the wrong side, etc.

 

[Stallion]

How do you think clubs on $4million will compete with clubs on $20million? Clubs relegated would be stripped and clubs promoted would be desperately scrambling around trying to pick up talent.

It would necessarily build up the lower tier comp and exponentially increase rugby league player numbers and area interest. The motivation to aspire to the top flight is better than none at all! Its positive!

 

[siv]

The Roosters are fantastic on the CC.

Money talks

all non Wyong juniors hate being classified as Easts juniors

 

[mave]

Money talks

all non Wyong juniors hate being classified as Easts juniors

Not all.

My young fella plays for a CC team other than Wyong, is a die-hard Manly fan, and would trade his left nut for another crack at the Roosters junior development squad.

Most of his team-mates are of a similar mindset, as far as I can ascertain.

If it leads them to a potential NRL career, then then I don't think the kids give two shits what colour jersey they are made to wear.

 

[Perth Red]

It would necessarily build up the lower tier comp and exponentially increase rugby league player numbers and area interest. The motivation to aspire to the top flight is better than none at all! Its positive!

Not in the real world where clubs who go down fall apart and clubs that go up scramble to try and survive. Trust me, my clubs been part of P&R for many years and its a nightmare and does nothing to strengthen the game. My own chairman has said they have basically stopped spending on long term projects as they A) have no long term financial security to budget on and B) will spend money on quick fixes to avoid relegation.

There is no sport in the world that does not have massive parity between the top flight and division 2 that causes massive problems of this type. The less money in the sport the bigger the disparity.

 

[Stallion]

Not in the real world where clubs who go down fall apart and clubs that go up scramble to try and survive. Trust me, my clubs been part of P&R for many years and its a nightmare and does nothing to strengthen the game. My own chairman has said they have basically stopped spending on long term projects as they A) have no long term financial security to budget on and B) will spend money on quick fixes to avoid relegation.

There is no sport in the world that does not have massive parity between the top flight and division 2 that causes massive problems of this type. The less money in the sport the bigger the disparity.

From a guy whos "real world " vision for rugby league involves dismantling real world Sydney based clubs! My point is that some hope over time is better than no hope. A twinkle on the eye allows for hope . No twinkle leads to abandonment of eyes for rugbyleague with some other code benefitting. Thats how it works in Sydney. And the AFL are very aware of this in Melbourne. The ten Melbourne AFL clubs have established longtime markets even though its a crap code. Rugby league has only 9 clubs (if that!)with a million more people in Sydney. Your mathematics and public relations strategy does not add up PR. Benefitting the code is the main thing not imploding it.